Where Would We Be Without the Gifts?

[Tomas Sandstrom]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

Sure - a bit. But outside like the top 3 in most drafts, the whole lot of it is negotiable. Heck - hindsight being what it is three years out - think Buffalo takes Dahlin knowing what Svech and Tkachuk and Hughes became? Think there's any way the Islanders go Wahlstrom/Dobson when they could have gone Farabee/Smith? It's all circumstance against consensus and trusting your systems to grow the players. 

And not to turn this into yet another Kravtsov thread - it's not like he's busted and it's not like we've fucked up his development, so who are we to say that was a mistake?

Krav is a victim of circumstance, more than anything else.  Sort of caught in the middle of:

- Rebuild

- Panarin signs

- Get lucky 2 years in a row with Ping Pong Balls, selecting 2 wings with those picks

- Kreider re-signs

- Gorton and JD are fired (don't underestimate this, as this represents a sudden and profound change of direction for the organization)  

- New GM, New Coach, New mandates from the owner....

So, whatever plans JD and Gorton may have had for this team in March 2021 very likely have significantly changed.  

Not to mention the different personalities.  We've read recently about Krav and Drury butting heads a bit in exit interviews and such.  Now throw a new coach into the mix, add a dash of injury in training camp, and on top of it all, look who has options to be sent down and who doesn't.  

To address the original question...it's a very fair one to ask.  However, the problem with questions such as these are we will never know because these moves are cornerstones. 

Without them, do they sign another big-time free agent instead of Panarin? 

What do they do with the picks in the years they hit the Ping Pong Ball Jackpot? 

Do they make another trade instead of the one for Fox?  

Most likely, the resources used for those players are used another way.  Then other moves made might be different due to these different cornerstone moves.  So, we'll never know.

But, in general, I agree with your point that beyond these 4 cornerstones, the team hasn't been very well managed.  

[Sharpshooter]

As much as I like Shesterkin and his abilities, whether it's because of injury or what have you, hasn't proven he can be that ace #1 starter we think (and hope) he can be. I think he probably will do it, but he needs to show it.

[Sharpshooter]

46 minutes ago, Keirik said:

What if your Jewish though?

Just change 'Christmas' to the holiday that suits you.

[Blue Heaven]

3 hours ago, Sod16 said:

Panarin, Fox, LaF, Kakko: all bequeathed on the team through no skill or action on the part of management.  Where would this team be now and what would the future look like without them?  There would still be a couple of solid potential but essentially unproven players like Miller, but Goodrow and Zib probably wouldn't have signed long term and the roster would be crap.  This question particularly comes into focus with the apparent total failure of 7th and 9th overall picks in successive years, something that in of itself would be a disaster for most any other rebuilding team.  A GM for about 25 of the teams has to ask "where would the Rangers be if they had been dealt the hand that I have had to play?"

The Rangers would most likely be in the same spot they are now.  Go back to those drafts and look at who was drafted after Andersson and Kravtsov.  No one really stands out like "OH SHIT WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED THAT GUY"

2017: Want to make a case for Suzuki/Necas/Thomas.  Out of that list probably the best player taken after Andersson is Chytil, and we already got him.  People were pissed that the Rangers didnt draft Mittelstadt, dude can barely crack the Sabres lineup.  

1	7	NY Rangers	Lias Andersson	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	89	6	9	15	45	2020-21
1	8	Buffalo	Casey Mittelstadt	C	Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]	155	27	34	61	24	2020-21
1	9	Detroit	Michael Rasmussen	C	Tri-City Americans [WHL]	102	11	19	30	55	2020-21
1	10	Florida	Owen Tippett	R	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]	52	8	11	19	6	2020-21
1	11	Los Angeles	Gabriel Vilardi	C	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	64	13	17	30	10	2020-21
1	12	Carolina	Martin Necas	C	Brno Kometa [Czech]	125	31	48	79	32	2020-21
1	13	Vegas	Nick Suzuki	C	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	128	28	54	82	32	2021-22
1	14	Tampa Bay	Cal Foote	D	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	35	1	2	3	29	2020-21
1	15	Vegas	Erik Brannstrom	D	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	63	2	15	17	41	2020-21
1	16	Calgary	Juuso Valimaki	D	Tri-City Americans [WHL]	73	3	11	14	38	2020-21
1	17	Toronto	Timothy Liljegren	D	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	13	0	1	1	4	2020-21
1	18	Boston	Urho Vaakanainen	D	JyP HT Jyvaskyla [SM-liiga]	16	0	2	2	2	2020-21
1	19	San Jose	Josh Norris	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	59	17	18	35	13	2020-21
1	20	St. Louis	Robert Thomas	C	London Knights [OHL]	169	22	65	87	42	2020-21
1	21	NY Rangers	Filip Chytil	C	Zlin ZPS HC [Czech]	187	34	37	71	32	2021-22
1	22	Edmonton	Kailer Yamamoto	R	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	105	20	32	52	42	2020-21

2018: Farabee so far has had the most success in this draft after Kravtsov was drafted, thats the only case here. 

Everyone though Wahlstrom was going to be the pick, he wasnt and again hasnt proven anything either as a NYI.

1	9	NY Rangers	Vitali Kravtsov	R	Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL]	20	2	2	4	4	2020-21
1	10	Edmonton	Evan Bouchard	D	London Knights [OHL]	21	3	3	6	4	2020-21
1	11	NY Islanders	Oliver Wahlstrom	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	53	12	9	21	25	2020-21
1	12	NY Islanders	Noah Dobson	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	80	4	17	21	16	2020-21
1	13	Dallas	Ty Dellandrea	C	Flint Firebirds [OHL]	26	3	2	5	23	2020-21
1	14	Philadelphia	Joel Farabee	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	107	28	31	59	67	2020-21
1	15	Florida	Grigori Denisenko	L	Yaroslavl (Russia-Jr)	7	0	4	4	2	2020-21
1	16	Colorado	Martin Kaut	R	Pardubice HC [Czech]	14	2	1	3	6	2020-21
1	17	New Jersey	Ty Smith	D	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	48	2	21	23	22	2020-21
1	18	Columbus	Liam Foudy	C	London Knights [OHL]	26	0	5	5	6	2020-21
1	19	Philadelphia	Jay O'Brien	C	Thayer Academy (US H.S.)
1	20	Los Angeles	Rasmus Kupari	C	Karpat [SM-liiga]	7	1	0	1	2	2020-21
1	21	San Jose	Ryan Merkley	D	Guelph Storm [OHL]
1	22	NY Rangers	K'Andre Miller	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	54	5	7	12	20	2021-22
1	23	Anaheim	Isac Lundestrom	C	Lulea HF [SweHL]	72	6	11	17	16	2021-22
1	24	Minnesota	Filip Johansson	D	Leksands IF [Swe-1]
1	25	St. Louis	Dominik Bokk	L	Vaxjo HC [SweHL]
1	26	Ottawa	Jacob Bernard-Docker	D	Okotoks Oilers [AJHL]	5	0	0	0	0	2020-21
1	27	Chicago	Nicolas Beaudin	D	Drummondville Voltigeurs [QMJHL]	20	2	4	6	2	2020-21
1	28	NY Rangers	Nils Lundkvist	D	Lulea HF [SweHL]

[Long live the King]

3 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

The Rangers would most likely be in the same spot they are now.  Go back to those drafts and look at who was drafted after Andersson and Kravtsov.  No one really stands out like "OH SHIT WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED THAT GUY"

2017: Want to make a case for Suzuki/Necas/Thomas.  Out of that list probably the best player taken after Andersson is Chytil, and we already got him.  People were pissed that the Rangers didnt draft Mittelstadt, dude can barely crack the Sabres lineup.  

1	7	NY Rangers	Lias Andersson	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	89	6	9	15	45	2020-21
1	8	Buffalo	Casey Mittelstadt	C	Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]	155	27	34	61	24	2020-21
1	9	Detroit	Michael Rasmussen	C	Tri-City Americans [WHL]	102	11	19	30	55	2020-21
1	10	Florida	Owen Tippett	R	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]	52	8	11	19	6	2020-21
1	11	Los Angeles	Gabriel Vilardi	C	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	64	13	17	30	10	2020-21
1	12	Carolina	Martin Necas	C	Brno Kometa [Czech]	125	31	48	79	32	2020-21
1	13	Vegas	Nick Suzuki	C	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	128	28	54	82	32	2021-22
1	14	Tampa Bay	Cal Foote	D	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	35	1	2	3	29	2020-21
1	15	Vegas	Erik Brannstrom	D	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	63	2	15	17	41	2020-21
1	16	Calgary	Juuso Valimaki	D	Tri-City Americans [WHL]	73	3	11	14	38	2020-21
1	17	Toronto	Timothy Liljegren	D	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	13	0	1	1	4	2020-21
1	18	Boston	Urho Vaakanainen	D	JyP HT Jyvaskyla [SM-liiga]	16	0	2	2	2	2020-21
1	19	San Jose	Josh Norris	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	59	17	18	35	13	2020-21
1	20	St. Louis	Robert Thomas	C	London Knights [OHL]	169	22	65	87	42	2020-21
1	21	NY Rangers	Filip Chytil	C	Zlin ZPS HC [Czech]	187	34	37	71	32	2021-22
1	22	Edmonton	Kailer Yamamoto	R	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	105	20	32	52	42	2020-21

2018: Farabee so far has had the most success in this draft after Kravtsov was drafted, thats the only case here. 

Everyone though Wahlstrom was going to be the pick, he wasnt and again hasnt proven anything either as a NYI.

1	9	NY Rangers	Vitali Kravtsov	R	Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL]	20	2	2	4	4	2020-21
1	10	Edmonton	Evan Bouchard	D	London Knights [OHL]	21	3	3	6	4	2020-21
1	11	NY Islanders	Oliver Wahlstrom	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	53	12	9	21	25	2020-21
1	12	NY Islanders	Noah Dobson	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	80	4	17	21	16	2020-21
1	13	Dallas	Ty Dellandrea	C	Flint Firebirds [OHL]	26	3	2	5	23	2020-21
1	14	Philadelphia	Joel Farabee	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	107	28	31	59	67	2020-21
1	15	Florida	Grigori Denisenko	L	Yaroslavl (Russia-Jr)	7	0	4	4	2	2020-21
1	16	Colorado	Martin Kaut	R	Pardubice HC [Czech]	14	2	1	3	6	2020-21
1	17	New Jersey	Ty Smith	D	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	48	2	21	23	22	2020-21
1	18	Columbus	Liam Foudy	C	London Knights [OHL]	26	0	5	5	6	2020-21
1	19	Philadelphia	Jay O'Brien	C	Thayer Academy (US H.S.)
1	20	Los Angeles	Rasmus Kupari	C	Karpat [SM-liiga]	7	1	0	1	2	2020-21
1	21	San Jose	Ryan Merkley	D	Guelph Storm [OHL]
1	22	NY Rangers	K'Andre Miller	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	54	5	7	12	20	2021-22
1	23	Anaheim	Isac Lundestrom	C	Lulea HF [SweHL]	72	6	11	17	16	2021-22
1	24	Minnesota	Filip Johansson	D	Leksands IF [Swe-1]
1	25	St. Louis	Dominik Bokk	L	Vaxjo HC [SweHL]
1	26	Ottawa	Jacob Bernard-Docker	D	Okotoks Oilers [AJHL]	5	0	0	0	0	2020-21
1	27	Chicago	Nicolas Beaudin	D	Drummondville Voltigeurs [QMJHL]	20	2	4	6	2	2020-21
1	28	NY Rangers	Nils Lundkvist	D	Lulea HF [SweHL]

It's still too early to determine this.  Gotta give a draft class 5 years to see what happens.  Necas had 41 points in 53 games last year.

[Blue Heaven]

2 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

It's still too early to determine this.  Gotta give a draft class 5 years to see what happens.  Necas had 41 points in 53 games last year.

But questioning drafting Andersson/Kravtsov is all 20/20 hindsight.  And looking at that list of players drafted after those 2 players shows that at this stage of both their developments that no one really stands out.  Rangers got f'd when Vancouver didnt bit on trading #5 so the Rangers could draft Pettersson

[Long live the King]

Just now, Blue Heaven said:

But questioning drafting Andersson/Kravtsov is all 20/20 hindsight.  And looking at that list of players drafted after those 2 players shows that at this stage of both their developments that no one really stands out.  Rangers got f'd when Vancouver didnt bit on trading #5 so the Rangers could draft Pettersson

Yea total hindsight.  It is what is.  Can't change it.  But Necas stands out.

[Flynn]

not gonna lie.. I thought the thread said "Gifs".. I was expecting much different content..  Admittedly sad this was meaningful content. 

 

 

 

[Albatrosss]

22 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

As much as I like Shesterkin and his abilities, whether it's because of injury or what have you, hasn't proven he can be that ace #1 starter we think (and hope) he can be. I think he probably will do it, but he needs to show it.

you're right, but at the same time the defense is atrocious. 

[Sharpshooter]

Here is a gif of gifts. I hope this helps.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, CCCP said:

you're right, but at the same time the defense is atrocious. 

Absolutely. It's a combination of inexperience and/or just not being very good anyway. lol

[Morphinity 2.0]

Had to delete. Sorry boys. 

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Morphinity said:

  

 

I feel like that's underselling how difficult it is to land a free agent, especially a high profile one. 

Not in NY, when you're throwing out max contracts.