'Sons of Anarchy' on FX

[I am Scags]

Wrong on Clay Phil, but spot on with Pope!!! :cheers:

 

 

 

That frame job on Clay was fucking money!!!!! :D

 

 

Gemma you wicked fucking bitch!!! YOU WICKED FUCKING BITCH!!! :angry:

 

Goodbye Bobby....:(

 

And Jimmy, did you notice that Mexicali rap during the shootout? :rofl:

[Phil]

Well, I was damn close. Only thing I had dead wrong was Clay getting out to Ireland and with Tig.

 

Fantastic finale, though.

[Phil]

Wrong on Clay Phil, but spot on with Pope!!! :cheers:

 

 

 

That frame job on Clay was fucking money!!!!! :D

 

 

Gemma you wicked fucking bitch!!! YOU WICKED FUCKING BITCH!!! :angry:

 

Goodbye Bobby....:(

 

And Jimmy, did you notice that Mexicali rap during the shootout? :rofl:

 

Yeah, dead wrong on Clay, but I knew the Pope thing was a red herring based off the scene we saw last week with Jax pulling the gun on him in the middle of nowhere, especially when it happened so early in the episode.

[I am Scags]

Well, I was damn close. Only thing I had dead wrong was Clay getting out to Ireland and with Tig.

 

Fantastic finale, though.

 

No, you nearly called it man.

 

Awesome finale!

[Phil]

Knew Tara was going to prison, too, though I think they can reverse that course with ease next season since the only thing keeping her there is Gemma's word.

 

It's official now, though — Jax is Clay, whether he ever wanted or intended to be him or not, and he's officially out of friends to boot now that Bobby cut off the VP patch. Opie is dead, Piney is dead, Juice has little love for him (based on the fact he tried to get Clay out last minute), Tig has little love for him, despite being saved by him last second, etc.

 

Really, the closest thing he's got to a friend left is Chibbs, though I'm not sure how that'll pan out once Chibbs finds out (if he finds out) about how the whole thing with Tig went down, and especially once he realizes Bobby cut his own patch off.

 

I'll give Sutter this much, though — I said it earlier, too — the show is finally living up to it's name: Sons of ANARCHY.

 

Oh, and P.S., Otto biting his own fuckin' tongue off was sick. Made me gag.

[I am Scags]

Knew Tara was going to prison, too, though I think they can reverse that course with ease next season since the only thing keeping her there is Gemma's word.

 

It's official now, though — Jax is Clay, whether he ever wanted or intended to be him or not, and he's officially out of friends to boot now that Bobby cut off the VP patch. Opie is dead, Piney is dead, Juice has little love for him (based on the fact he tried to get Clay out last minute), Tig has little love for him, despite being saved by him last second, etc.

 

Really, the closest thing he's got to a friend left is Chibbs, though I'm not sure how that'll pan out once Chibbs finds out (if he finds out) about how the whole thing with Tig went down, and especially once he realizes Bobby cut his own patch off.

 

I'll give Sutter this much, though — I said it earlier, too — the show is finally living up to it's name: Sons of ANARCHY.

 

Oh, and P.S., Otto biting his own fuckin' tongue off was sick. Made me gag.

 

I started to sense Jax was truly becoming Clay a few episodes ago and I knew it to truly be the case since I started to dislike him, as crazy as it sounds I don't like the guy anymore even though he is the show. He is forever engrained in that club, he will never be the family man who finally wakes up gets out like I thought he almost would last season. On the flip side I actually felt a tinge of sorrow for Clay last week and this week when he knew he was done, but we all know he got what was coming to him. Great job by the writers for at least swaying this viewer.

 

That Sympathy for the Devil cover at the end was fuckin nice, and a great send off for this crazy season.

[Phil]

I started to sense Jax was truly becoming Clay a few episodes ago and I knew it to truly be the case since I started to dislike him, as crazy as it sounds I don't like the guy anymore even though he is the show. He is forever engrained in that club, he will never be the family man who finally wakes up gets out like I thought he almost would last season. On the flip side I actually felt a tinge of sorrow for Clay last week and this week when he knew he was done, but we all know he got what was coming to him. Great job by the writers for at least swaying this viewer.

 

That Sympathy for the Devil cover at the end was fuckin nice, and a great send off for this crazy season.

 

Yup. One of the interviews I posted here alluded to that transition specifically, and noted directly on the quote from Jax a few weeks ago when he talked about what Opie said to him about the gavel corrupting when he turned down the position for VP way earlier in the season. He said something to the extent of needing to be an animal to hold the gavel.

 

The conversation between Nero and Jax IMO proved that Jax is in it for the long haul. He's never getting out... alive. Remember though — this entire series is based on Hamlet. If Jax is Hamlet, we all know how this is going to end. Bloody.

 

Loved the Sympathy for the Devil cover as well. That was actually a Jane's Addiction rendition.

[I am Scags]

Yup. One of the interviews I posted here alluded to that transition specifically, and noted directly on the quote from Jax a few weeks ago when he talked about what Opie said to him about the gavel corrupting when he turned down the position for VP way earlier in the season. He said something to the extent of needing to be an animal to hold the gavel.

 

The conversation between Nero and Jax IMO proved that Jax is in it for the long haul. He's never getting out... alive. Remember though — this entire series is based on Hamlet. If Jax is Hamlet, we all know how this is going to end. Bloody.

 

Loved the Sympathy for the Devil cover as well. That was actually a Jane's Addiction rendition.

 

Wow, I never picked up on it until you just said that. Wow!! Not that I ever was a Shakespeare expert but I have no idea why I never saw that.

Indeed it ends brutally!!! :D

[Phil]

Yup.

 

http://brainbusteronline.com/?p=279

 

Hamlet is the story of a prince who’s father died, and his Uncle married the Queen and became King. Eventually Hamlet is visited by the ghost of his father. The ghost tells Hamlet that he was murdered by his brother, (hamlets uncle) Claudius by poison. Hamlet swears to avenge the death of his father. Before I go further lets take a look at some similarities between Sons and Hamlet.

 

Jax is Hmalet. The main character of the show. His father John Teller was president of a motorcycle club, but died an untimely death. Jax was always told it was because of a heart condition, but we see very early into the show some implications that suggest the current club president had killed John Teller. The first season is about Jax realizing that the club had gone down the wrong path. He had found an old journal of his fathers that had revealed John didn’t want to be an outlaw and run guns through charming.

 

The writings of John Teller, jounral/letters are the ghost of the king. Still haunting, trying to reveal the truth of his death.

 

Clay is Claudius. The name alone gives it away. In season four it has been confirmed that Clay killed John Teller. We still don’t know why. However he killed the president and married his old lady Gemma. This is right on path of Claudius who killed King Hamlet and married Queen Gertrude.

 

Gemma is Gertrude. The old lady/Queen/woman in charge. I believe Gertrude was unaware of the true reason of King hamlets death, and Gemma is kind of kept in the dark by Clay of the real reason of John Tellers death.

 

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_400/406_sons-of-anarchy-5-things-you-didnt-know.html

 

That’s right: SOA’s writers trick viewers into learning Shakespeare. SOA's creator, Kurt Sutter, has said, “I don't want to overplay that but it's there. It's not a version of Hamlet but it's definitely influenced by it.” Clay (Ron Perlman) is based on the role of King Claudius, who murdered his own brother (Hamlet’s father) to win the throne and marry Queen Gertrude (Hamlet’s mother). Clay marries Gemma (Katey Sagal), the Gertrude figure, and gains control of The Sons of Anarchy, which her dead husband used to run. Jax is Hamlet. His confusion over the SOA lifestyle is like Hamlet's melancholy about the kingdom. While Jax communicates with his father by reading his journal, Hamlet literally speaks with the ghost of his father. Ron Perlman said in an interview, “I'm sure they’re going to stick to the structure of Hamlet all the way to the end” of the series.

[quick release]

Knew Tara was going to prison, too, though I think they can reverse that course with ease next season since the only thing keeping her there is Gemma's word.

 

It's official now, though — Jax is Clay, whether he ever wanted or intended to be him or not, and he's officially out of friends to boot now that Bobby cut off the VP patch. Opie is dead, Piney is dead, Juice has little love for him (based on the fact he tried to get Clay out last minute), Tig has little love for him, despite being saved by him last second, etc.

 

Really, the closest thing he's got to a friend left is Chibbs, though I'm not sure how that'll pan out once Chibbs finds out (if he finds out) about how the whole thing with Tig went down, and especially once he realizes Bobby cut his own patch off.

 

I'll give Sutter this much, though — I said it earlier, too — the show is finally living up to it's name: Sons of ANARCHY.

 

Oh, and P.S., Otto biting his own fuckin' tongue off was sick. Made me gag.

 

I disagree. I think Tig will be indebted to Jax for it.. I just think he was in shock. Notice the scene where Bobby comes out of the gavel room after he cuts off the VP.. they pan in on Tig. I think that's a sign that Tig will be the next VP, just as he was to Clay. Another little reminder (like we didn't have anough of them) that Jax = Clay.

 

Would have liked to see Juice offed. Tired of him being such a little baby. Make a fucking decision and stick to it. Wishy washy baby he is. Honestly though I think I've run out of people I give a shit about on this show. I guess Chibbs? At this point, any character that gets a bullet absolutely deserves it. With the axception of Wendy. She is now the one character that's decent.

 

Wanted to point out too my favorite part of this episode was the end of the exchange Jax had with August Marks. It was really smart and subtle (WOW!) the way it was revealed that Jax was actually reminding Marks that he was next in line to Pope and is now in power.

[Phil]

I disagree. I think Tig will be indebted to Jax for it.. I just think he was in shock. Notice the scene where Bobby comes out of the gavel room after he cuts off the VP.. they pan in on Tig. I think that's a sign that Tig will be the next VP, just as he was to Clay. Another little reminder (like we didn't have anough of them) that Jax = Clay.

 

Would have liked to see Juice offed. Tired of him being such a little baby. Make a fucking decision and stick to it. Wishy washy baby he is. Honestly though I think I've run out of people I give a shit about on this show. I guess Chibbs? At this point, any character that gets a bullet absolutely deserves it.

 

Wanted to point out too my favorite part of this episode was the end of the exchange Jax had with August Marks. It was really smart and subtle (WOW!) the way it was revealed that Jax was actually reminding Marks that he was next in line to Pope and is now in power.

 

Tig was never VP. He was Sergeant at Arms. The VP before Bobby was Jax.

 

You could be right about that, though. I wouldn't mind it either. That, or Chibbs takes the VP spot and Tig is given his Sgt. at Arms patch back. To be honest, I'd prefer that. Chibbs has always had the deepest love for Jax IMO — deeper even than Opie, who was on/off with him too much.

 

I agree about the post-Pope meet-up with Marks though — that played out well, especially with how Jax walked away from it talking about looking forward to doing business with him. That's also a classic Clay tactic — more foreshadowing that Jax has become Clay.

[quick release]

Which characters do you actually care for?

[Phil]

Care in what sense? Like have an emotional investment in where I don't want to see them die? Probably no one. Chibbs, maybe.

 

The only one I ever really had an emotional tie to was Opie. I like Tig too, but I wouldn't say I'm tied to him any.

[quick release]

Care in what sense? Like have an emotional investment in where I don't want to see them die? Probably no one. Chibbs, maybe.

 

The only one I ever really had an emotional tie to was Opie. I like Tig too, but I wouldn't say I'm tied to him any.

 

I guess for me that's the biggest problem with the show now.. I'm not emotionally invested anymore. I'm just a spectator. Treme gives me chills because I actually care about some of the characters' well being. Here I'm just along for the ride.. it matters much less what happens on the show.

[Phil]

I guess for me that's the biggest problem with the show now.. I'm not emotionally invested anymore. I'm just a spectator. Treme gives me chills because I actually care about some of the characters' well being. Here I'm just along for the ride.. it matters much less what happens on the show.

 

Well, I guess I should rephrase. I care about all the characters on this show. If tomorrow Jax came out dressed as a clown, quit SAMCRO for the clown business and just walked around honking a horn for comedic relief, I'd be upset, because I'd feel robbed of a character I've come to love. Not love in the way I grew to love Opie (personal), but love in a sense of I've invested my time to truly appreciate the relationships in this show, and would feel like that was stolen from me.

 

So when you look at it that way, I actually care about all the characters. I just don't suspend reality for any of them any longer.

 

I wouldn't say what's happening on the show matters less now that Opie is gone. I'd just say that I am less likely to be as upset when any of the others die, simply because it was Opie I loved most.

[I am Scags]

For me, as much as I may have liked Opie and I how I feel towards Chibs, I really can't stand anyone in this show. Everyone of them has blood on their hands, everyone of them is either a murderer or back stabber. Even if I want to like Unser, he's still a crooked ex cop and an accessory of a murderous biker gang. I'm the type of viewer that doesn't neccesarily need to be invested personally into anyone in a show as long as the story and the plot leaves me wanting more.

[Phil]

I agree, and again I'll point to what I mentioned earlier. The show is called Sons of ANARCHY. It's not designed for you to fall in love with characters over their hearts in the show.

[Phil]

Kim Coates:

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/04/sons-of-anarchy-season-finale-kim-coates-tig-fate/

 

I think most fans thought Tig would live, just because you can?t take Opie (Ryan Hurst) and Tig from us this year. But then again, this is Kurt Sutter.

We knew about Ryan. He?s the first big one to go, really. I?m not taking anything away from the tragedy of Johnny Lewis [Half-Sack], or William Lucking [Piney] obviously, but Opie was the Horatio of the piece, everyone thought he?d be there ?til the bitter end. So that was a shocker. I also think the audience had a pretty hard time saying goodbye to Opie, and I can?t imagine what it would have been like to say goodbye to Tig as well ? it would have been a pretty drastic season. I knew that Sutter would give me a heads-up if it was Tig?s time to go. As the season went on, I just never got that call. I knew that there would be a bit of a bookend with Pope at the end of the year ? not knowing which way it would go. When I looked up at Pope and said, ?I?m gonna cut your head off? [in the season premiere], I had kinda hoped that that?s the way it would go. And Charlie, being the lead of the show with Katey [sagal] and Ron, he knows what?s going on. Because he?s got so much to deal with, Kurt would give him a heads-up three or four shows down the line. When Charlie heard about the last episode, probably when we were shooting 510, he pulled me aside and said, ?Wow. Just get ready, brother. Just get ready.? I didn?t want to know too much because I wanted to keep playing those beats.

 

Did it go down the way you envisioned?

I don?t think anyone could have predicted the way it went down. Sutter?s just such an amazing storyteller. It?s just so out there, and so many beats that you don?t see coming. Do you remember at the end of season 3, when we kill Stahl, we kill Jimmy, and we?re in that paddy wagon, and we?re going to prison and we start giggling like little schoolgirls because we were all in on it? We?d been in the Teller-Morrow parking lot calling Jax a rat, spitting on him. That was really good acting by the club. So for Tig to not know that Jax had something up his sleeve, I really had to play those beats so beautifully, honestly pained-out and hateful and hurt ? that was a great bookend to Tig?s emotional year for me. I?m glad Tig didn?t know. And I?m glad Jax had something up his sleeve, because let me tell you something, when Charlie pulled that gun out and started shooting all those bodyguards, everyone watching [at that affiliate event Monday] was screaming. I mean, I literally saw that episode with 100 people last night, and I?ve never seen anything like it. It was like being at a football game. They were commenting, and yelling, and crying, and then super silent. When I was getting led off and spitting in Charlie?s face, everybody kept turning around looking at me, like, Ohmygod. And then when that gun came out and Charlie popped that first bodyguard, I?m not kidding, 100 people were screaming, ?Yeah! Yeah!? And then me putting the bullets into Pope ? everyone was hoarse. They went crazy. Are people like that when they watch this show in front of their television?

 

Has [Kurt Sutter] actually said anything to you about season 6?

Yes, he has. ?Absolutely nothing.? [Laughs] I will say this though, in my opinion, Jax turned into such a young Clay, such a prick at the end. And Gemma?s just ? whoa, are you kidding me? And Tara?s gonna go to jail, Clay?s goin? to jail. I?m left with a dog. Bobby?s rippin? the VP patch off. Chibs, who?s backed Jax?s every move, he?s gotta be upset about everything. Juice, well, you know, if he cries one more time, I?m gonna punch him in the face.

 

As you said after the season premiere, Kurt?s not pulling punches. Everyone is f?ed.

The show is so draconian ? Shakespeare, Greek tragedy ? that I?m just a really blessed actor to be given some of this heavy emotional stuff that Sutter trusts me with. I love playing Tig, but I do understand that the show?s metaphorically Hamlet, it is what it is, and everyone?s gonna start to die now, I?m sure, in the next two seasons. I mean this: I don?t care if I?m dead in the third episode next year, or it?s my big nose in the final episode, final scene ? I?ve had a great run with this guy. If I?m there ?til the end, then I?m gonna be there ?til the end. And if I?m gone, I?m gone. Because I can?t wait for what?s next.

 

--

 

Kurt Sutter:

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/04/soa-creator-kurt-sutter-talks-about-finale/

 

That was quite a special effect when you ? as Otto the incarcerated ? bit off your tongue and spit it at the window.

Yeah, we worked with a prosthetics house on that! My tongue was modeled in a full-on prosthetic. We made a bunch of them so I could do it a few times. I was literally gnawing my teeth to break it. It?s a rubber tongue but the material is hard enough so you have something to chew through. I?ve been saying I don?t want any more arcs for Otto. This way, I won?t have any more lines. He?ll probably still be part of the Tara arc in the new season. He?ll just be scribbling sh? on pads. FX President John Landgraf joked that the only thing left on Otto was his middle finger.

 

Who knew that you would end season five with some fans actually feeling sorry for Clay!

In doing research on these guys, you discover that guys that don?t die, they don?t get killed off or end up in jail. They sort of burn out. They can?t do another round of the game. I wanted to get Clay to that place. He started off trying to be the old Clay, trying to get back the seat at the table, but when Roosevelt?s wife was killed, it was a turning point. He just couldn?t do it anymore. At the end of the day, he is a survivor. He wants a piece of the pie, which is why he was setting up the gun business. But the only thing he wants is Gemma. He is sincere with that. You kind of wish Jax was like that. All he should want is Tara, to get out. But he?s adopting some of character traits (that Clay used to have).

 

When will season six pick up? The next day? Months from now?

I traditionally don?t put a lot of time between seasons. My guess is that it will probably start weeks later.

 

Seems like the door is open for a Jimmy Smits? comeback.

I would love Jimmy to come back. I wrote it open-ended. We?re in the process of trying to make that happen. It depends on his availability.

 

Talk about what you accomplished this season.

I love the idea that Jax executed this plan as an outlaw masterfully, almost without a hitch. But everything in his family unraveled and crumbled in regards to the promise he couldn?t keep to Tara. The club has all these external pressures removed ? they are out of drugs, guns, RICO has been lifted, they have new business opportunities. And yet internally, the club is more fractured than it?s ever been before. It?s sort of like a reckoning is going to happen.

[Phil]

[Phil]

Ugh. Perlman interview on the Nerdist podcast says new SOA season won't air until September 2013.

 

So far away!

[Fuhgeddaboudit]

Take your time. I really didn't enjoy much of last season.

[Phil]

Take your time. I really didn't enjoy much of last season.

 

How is that possible? Tara goes to prison. Opie dies. Jax moves to the head of the table. Clay is on his way to prison. Pope is dead. So much incredible shit happened.

[Fuhgeddaboudit]

How is that possible? Tara goes to prison. Opie dies. Jax moves to the head of the table. Clay is on his way to prison. Pope is dead. So much incredible shit happened.

 

Did Opie really die in the last season or before that? Actually forgot about that. I think I've been turned off by the show going forward because I watched all the seasons at once and I just couldn't take anymore biker shit. I might have to re-watch the last season again and see if I get a different perspective.

[Phil]

Opie died last season, yes.

[Bluephoria]

Finally got around to finishing up the last season. Pretty good stuff.

 

Next season to finish: Boardwalk Empire