Future Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Wow, I just noticed that Fast has the same number of points (17) in 34 games that Nash has in 42. I never have been a Nash-basher and points don't say everything, especially over a half season, but this is getting ridiculous. Are players supposed to be inspired to put up numbers in the last year of their contracts? Nash has played really inspired hockey until about 3 weeks ago. He's been more invisible in the last 8 games or so than his entire Rangers tenure. His point totals didn't bother me when he was playing well and generating chances, because that's just the way it goes sometimes. But I'm real concerned about how he hasn't been impactful at all, of late. Having said that, he's playing on a line with Paul fucking Carey, so idk what to expect lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Completely inaccurate? Are you fucking serious? Final, Conference Finals, 1st rd, 2nd rd. With the exception of last season, its absolutely regression. You can't even argue that. I color coded so its easier to understand. Let me know if you are colorblind and I will put them on a graph for you. Finals, Conference Finals, 1st Rd (lost to cup champs), 2nd round Wins: 45, 53, 46, 48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveByRichter35 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I color coded so its easier to understand. Let me know if you are colorblind and I will put them on a graph for you. Finals, Conference Finals, 1st Rd (lost to cup champs), 2nd round Wins: 45, 53, 46, 48 Let me quote myself again in case you're too dense to understand. Clearly I am talking playoff exits. Completely inaccurate? Are you fucking serious? Final, Conference Finals, 1st rd, 2nd rd. With the exception of last season, its absolutely regression. You can't even argue that. Bolded, because you must have missed it the first time. Pretty straight forward. 4th round, 3rd round, 1st round, 2nd round. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LAST SEASON ITS A CLEAR CUT REGRESSION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Let me quote myself again in case you're too dense to understand. Clearly I am talking playoff exits. Bolded, because you must have missed it the first time. Pretty straight forward. 4th round, 3rd round, 1st round, 2nd round. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LAST SEASON ITS A CLEAR CUT REGRESSION. But by leaving out last seasons, you're ignoring the team that most closely resembles this one and cutting out a third of the sample size. I think everyone understands that the team has regressed, but you're kind of exaggerating it by basing it on playoff exits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm sick of early exits. This team isn't one piece from a Cup. It's one piece from winning a round. If Nash, Grabner, Kreider, or basically anyone not named Skjei/Zib on our current roster gets us a piece that lets us think about the Cup next year, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm sick of early exits. This team isn't one piece from a Cup. It's one piece from winning a round. If Nash, Grabner, Kreider, or basically anyone not named Skjei/Zib on our current roster gets us a piece that lets us think about the Cup next year, I'm all for it. decent point. but why zib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Nash has played really inspired hockey until about 3 weeks ago. He's been more invisible in the last 8 games or so than his entire Rangers tenure. His point totals didn't bother me when he was playing well and generating chances, because that's just the way it goes sometimes. But I'm real concerned about how he hasn't been impactful at all, of late. Having said that, he's playing on a line with Paul fucking Carey, so idk what to expect lol. Future, that is spot on. He's been very good until recent weeks. During this stretch, Nash is getting DD as his C, resulting in him covering defensively for his centerman. I've talked incessantly about how McD needs a partner, but Nash and that 2nd line needs a quality two-way C to produce more points and mesh with Nash and our group of top 6 wingers. The league is getting faster and dramatically more talented. The kids are ready sooner and there is more of them from the US and other countries, then ever before. A 31 y/o DD is not part of top 6 for a Cup contender. Or even a top 9 on this team. And now it appears the 4C can be held down by Lettieri or Nieves and some even even say a guy from Hartford, making DD practically expendable. It is not that he hasn't tried to fit, and he's contributed here and there. Like Carey, he also makes for a great vet to be able to bring off the bench when injuries hit. But he does not make enough of an impact for such a key role and unlike some of the smaller players we like, he is pushed off the play or puck, too often. Add that he is below average defending and you have to wonder if he should be here. My take - once Zib and Hayes are fully healthy, rather than send down Lettieri or sitting Nieves, I'd trade or sit DD. Frankly, we need a 2C like RNH centering for Nash. Edm is still sucking and Chiarelli has been known to make a shitty trade every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 There is also something to be said about AV not knowing how to best utilize this version of Nash on this team. The right C could do wonders. Besides RNH, there are other guys around the league who would complement Nash's game and fit our system. Imagine Scheifele or McKinnon or Kopitar or Barkov or Trocheck or Kuznetsov or Marchessault or Barzal or Couture or Point among others. The first four are 1Cs, but look at the talent and speed of those 2Cs. It is a key missing piece on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Future, that is spot on. He's been very good until recent weeks. During this stretch, Nash is getting DD as his C, resulting in him covering defensively for his centerman. I've talked incessantly about how McD needs a partner, but Nash and that 2nd line needs a quality two-way C to produce more points and mesh with Nash and our group of top 6 wingers. The league is getting faster and dramatically more talented. The kids are ready sooner and there is more of them from the US and other countries, then ever before. A 31 y/o DD is not part of top 6 for a Cup contender. Or even a top 9 on this team. And now it appears the 4C can be held down by Lettieri or Nieves and some even even say a guy from Hartford, making DD practically expendable. It is not that he hasn't tried to fit, and he's contributed here and there. Like Carey, he also makes for a great vet to be able to bring off the bench when injuries hit. But he does not make enough of an impact for such a key role and unlike some of the smaller players we like, he is pushed off the play or puck, too often. Add that he is below average defending and you have to wonder if he should be here. My take - once Zib and Hayes are fully healthy, rather than send down Lettieri or sitting Nieves, I'd trade or sit DD. Frankly, we need a 2C like RNH centering for Nash. Edm is still sucking and Chiarelli has been known to make a shitty trade every now and then. I've liked DD and what he brings, but I can't disagree with your assessment. Do we really want to clog up the center position with RNH, at this point? (and certainly not for a few months of Nash). We have Tavares to target in the offseason, we have Chytil and Lias coming up,. Already have Hayes, Zibs and Nieves. Honestly, what this team needs... is what we hope to get from Andersson and Chytil in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm sick of early exits. This team isn't one piece from a Cup. It's one piece from winning a round. If Nash, Grabner, Kreider, or basically anyone not named Skjei/Zib on our current roster gets us a piece that lets us think about the Cup next year, I'm all for it. The only way that's happening is via a coup-type trade. It's a shame Chiarelli already gave away Eberle and Hall for seventy cents on the dollar. Hall, especially, would have been an impressive get. I guess there's always Marc Bergevin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2. So, yes, Gorton should be in aggressive listening mode, specifically on pending free agent Rick Nash, who unfortunately is playing some of the weakest hockey of his tenure in New York, having gone pointless in his last 10 games while recording just two goals and six points in 23 games going back to Nov. 17. The winger?s decline in production isn?t likely to increase his market value, but it only takes two teams believing that No. 61 can be a missing link to a title in order to generate a bidding war. Generally, I?d say nothing less than a first-rounder would do, but given the likelihood that Nash will not be back next year under even a hometown discount, you bet Gorton should entertain offers including a second-rounder, plus. Might the Rangers take a step back without Nash? Yes. But trading Nash would open ice time for Vinni Lettieri. And, pucks to baseballs, trading Carlos Beltran, Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman at the 2016 deadline did not kneecap the Yankees for even the next two months. But it isn?t just about Nash. It is about an attitude and philosophy approaching the deadline that the Rangers might be able to use as a mechanism to take two steps forward next year and three the year after that even if it does result in a step back this time. https://nypost.com/2018/01/09/rangers-shouldnt-let-winning-fool-them-at-trade-deadline/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The only way that's happening is via a coup-type trade. It's a shame Chiarelli already gave away Eberle and Hall for seventy cents on the dollar. Hall, especially, would have been an impressive get. I guess there's always Marc Bergevin. :rofl: How do either still have a job? And how did the Devils get so fuckin lucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I've liked DD and what he brings, but I can't disagree with your assessment. Do we really want to clog up the center position with RNH, at this point? (and certainly not for a few months of Nash). We have Tavares to target in the offseason, we have Chytil and Lias coming up,. Already have Hayes, Zibs and Nieves. Good question. If the Rangers find an opportunity to acquire a youngish, proven top-6 center (like RNH) for less than mkt value, they should do it. Reason is top centers are too important and rare enough that gambling the kids will reach that level before they hit drinking age is too risky. Plus Zib and Hayes would have to remain healthy and play at a continuous high level. Too many things need to go right. If by chance they all reach potential, then we'll have a trading chip to get our Seth Jones or Sergachev. Besides, centers can move to wing temporarily. Honestly, what this team needs... is what we hope to get from Andersson and Chytil in a few years. Honestly, if I'm being honest with myself, that is the most sobering and realistic take on the center situation and future. Let's hope one of them pans out to a legit top talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 https://nypost.com/2018/01/09/rangers-shouldnt-let-winning-fool-them-at-trade-deadline/ Phil, must you take out the trash here? OK, I'll indulge. 1. Vinni is not replacing Nash. 2. Injuries look to provide Vinni ice time anyway. 3. We'd never trade Nash for less than a 1st (they are late firsts anyway). 4. If we did sell cheap, Gorton would be on a short leash. 5. This mgmt and ownership will not trade Nash if we are a playoff team. 6. How da fuck does he know how much Nash would want to stay? Nash likely does not even know. Depends on production. 7. Getting cutesy saying hometown discount. Too simplistic. Par for the course. 8. His thoughts are shaped by the message boards, which he provocatively regurgitates down to an unnuanced rancid pile of know-it-all bile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers4Life Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 It?s a business, business tells you that Nash should be traded and Nash shouldn?t be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Phil, must you take out the trash here? 1. Vinni is not replacing Nash. I agree with all of your distaste for Larry, lol, but I think this point is interesting. Vinni is the type of guy who should be on a line WITH Nash, not replacing him. Despite the slump, he's a guy who still commands attention around the net and gives other guys room to operate, but he never really plays with shoot-first players. If Vinni is that guy - and it looks like he is - who can be the third man in, find a weak spot, and pull the trigger, he'd compliment Nash real well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If Nash and Grabner are not traded than Gorton should be fired for incompetence. This organization clearly never acts in the proper way that builds championships. They contend for the playoffs every year and hope to get lucky. It has never resulted in a cup. Never. The only cup they have won in 78 years cane from a team that was the favorite. It wasn?t a prayer it was the best team winning. To think this team can win this year is a prayer. It can happen but the odds are beyond slim. Trading nash who is gone this summer is a no brainer for he will bring back good assets. Assets that can be used in ranger blue years from now or assets that can be traded when the team is better positioned to contend. Grabner is a tougher decision because if he?s willing to sign a reasonable contract you could keep him. But he?d bring back some serious return at the deadline that strengthens this team down the roads. Question is is Grabner the player of the past two years or the guy the past 8. My view is cash out high and build. The team will be worse this season but will be stronger going forward and it will gain flexibility cap wise which is like adding another high end asset. This team has no chance at a cup this year and management knows it. Does msg value one round of playoff money or does it value winning cups? That answer has always been the playoffs. History tells you that ends in 54 year droughts. It?s even more pronounced now in the cap era and the impact youth is making in the league. You can?t have enough young talent and young talent is what you?ll get in moving Nash and Grabner. The only responsible decision is trying to win and I mean the cup is to trade them. For those who think they could become the Sabres is running their team scared. What they do now hasn?t worked. They had their window and that window could open again quicker if they don?t constantly chase false hopes. It doesn?t guarantee anything but it gives them a better chance. Tavares is a monster if?s this year and a wet dream. Next years ufa crop is loaded probably the best ever. If you want to be players in that market you need cap space. Young elc players are what afford you that space. That only can happen if you have those kind of players which the rangers don?t have. Yes Anderson and chytil are a nice start but having more only helps that case. Trade them it has to happen. 78 years is all that needs be said. Enough of always going for it. This is not the year just like the last two weren?t it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If Nash and Grabner are not traded than Gorton should be fired for incompetence. What if he keeps them and they make a run to the cup final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 What if he keeps them and they make a run to the cup final? Obviously he stays. However that is a pipe dream. Making the playoffs is probably 50/50 at best. Winning a round would be way over achieving. This team just isn’t good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 And it doesn’t get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesn’t understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 And it doesn’t get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesn’t understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich I dont know what you are looking at, but the entire ranking of the prospect pool is crap. The rangers have had the worst prospect pool since 1928. It didnt seem to stop them from being one of the best teams in the league over the last decade, even though they havent won a cup. Who cares if you have 13 forwards that might make the AHL. What matters is game-breaking prospect... which are usually NHL players. fuck prospect pools. Pittsburgh has been ranked the worst prospect pool since Crosby came... there is litterally zero correlation between prospect pools and future success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 And it doesn?t get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesn?t understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick. The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick. The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago. Same issue we have now, too many middle 6 forwards. (aka - your previous prospect pool) Best teams, recently, are extremely top heavy teams - Pittsburgh, Chicago. 2nd teir being LA (every other season), SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Same issue we have now, too many middle 6 forwards. (aka - your previous prospect pool) Best teams, recently, are extremely top heavy teams - Pittsburgh, Chicago. 2nd teir being LA (every other season), SJ And to take it one step further, those teams are top heavy from consecutive YEARS of sucking and lucking into generational talent. Not from being sellers at the deadline for a couple extra picks in the 20's in one draft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers4Life Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Our generational talent was drafted in the 7th round and plays the wrong position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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