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Shattenkirk – Healthy Scratch Thursday?

Giacomin

By Giacomin
in New York Rangers

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ThirtyONE BSBH Regular

ThirtyONE

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The first three games have proven only one thing: we're a long way from icing a competitive team.

 

The vet forwards we have are complimentary players and the vet D we have are all 6th dmen. I can't imagine there won't be some significant turnover in the next couple of seasons.

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Gravesy BSBH Rising Star

Gravesy

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If it is accountability, it is an interesting contrast with Gallant's philosophy of telling the players to not worry about mistakes, that you are not getting benched for making mistakes. It worked very well for them last year. Incidently, I've heard Brind-Amour is taking that same approach with the Cane's players. Bust ass, make plays and forget about mistakes.

 

I love that philosophy, but for some reason I don't have any problem with what Quinn is doing with this Ranger team. Maybe because some underacheived recently, while Vegas were all new hand picked guys and Carolina has more new guys and rookies.

 

I think this might be looking at it the wrong way, just going from comments that I've read.

I don't get the feeling this is about him being benched because he's making mistakes, gaffes in the defensive zone etc. It's about what he isn't doing, namely drive offense, effectively QB the powerplay and ultimately put points on the board. Basically, he's not fulfilling the role he's assigned on the team, and we have a young, like for like replacement waiting for his chance.

I really don't think Quinn is putting guys in the dog house for making mistakes. It's the same with Namestnikov and Hayes.

I also think the chopping and changing is about Quinn getting a good look at what he's got as much as it is about sending messages. I expect a fair bit of this from now until xmas, as I think we'll see a few guys up from Hartford as well in not too long.

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Future BSBH Mite

Future

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my worries here is trade value

I wouldn't worry about that...he doesn't really have any.

 

 

You might be able to flip him for a pick at the deadline, but the number of teams that would have interest in what is a 3rd pair, PP defenseman is pretty minimal, especially with 2 more years left.

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Giacomin BSBH Mite

Giacomin

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I think this might be looking at it the wrong way, just going from comments that I've read.

I don't get the feeling this is about him being benched because he's making mistakes, gaffes in the defensive zone etc. It's about what he isn't doing, namely drive offense, effectively QB the powerplay and ultimately put points on the board. Basically, he's not fulfilling the role he's assigned on the team, and we have a young, like for like replacement waiting for his chance.

I really don't think Quinn is putting guys in the dog house for making mistakes. It's the same with Namestnikov and Hayes.

I also think the chopping and changing is about Quinn getting a good look at what he's got as much as it is about sending messages. I expect a fair bit of this from now until xmas, as I think we'll see a few guys up from Hartford as well in not too long.

 

This is a fantastic take. It feels like Quinn is letting the situation and results naturally dictate his next move and that he knows that it is early and this gives him a chance to get a feel for everyone on the roster. Plus if the shuffling continues, no one guy will feel stapled to the pressbox.

 

The one motivation that could be play into this is his desire to get a win. The folks on radio like to talk about him getting a win (and some winning) or losing the team's buy-in. I'm not so sure, but it is very possible. Unlike Josh, I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far and the losing isn't killing me. I'm not sure what some on the board were expecting. I don't think this is the year this team learns how to win. Obviously I have a bias to see the young players demonstrate their potential and kept expectations low. It is different for the players.

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Costa BSBH Junior

Costa

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Too rash. Give him more than three games to get his game back. Not good message to future UFAs or Limited No Trade players who might consider coming here. Something to consider after 10-12 games. Limited minutes he is getting is message enough for now.

 

Actually if it was up to me, I want no part of those players based upon this team's experience in the last what at least 10 years

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Costa BSBH Junior

Costa

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I wouldn't worry about that...he doesn't really have any.

 

 

You might be able to flip him for a pick at the deadline, but the number of teams that would have interest in what is a 3rd pair, PP defenseman is pretty minimal, especially with 2 more years left.

 

or you might have to trade "our garbage" for "their garbage"......

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Scott BSBH Legend

Scott

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I think this might be looking at it the wrong way, just going from comments that I've read.

I don't get the feeling this is about him being benched because he's making mistakes, gaffes in the defensive zone etc. It's about what he isn't doing, namely drive offense, effectively QB the powerplay and ultimately put points on the board. Basically, he's not fulfilling the role he's assigned on the team, and we have a young, like for like replacement waiting for his chance.

I really don't think Quinn is putting guys in the dog house for making mistakes. It's the same with Namestnikov and Hayes.

I also think the chopping and changing is about Quinn getting a good look at what he's got as much as it is about sending messages. I expect a fair bit of this from now until xmas, as I think we'll see a few guys up from Hartford as well in not too long.

I certainly respect other's opinions here but I think we might be splitting hairs here. To me there is no difference between he's not sitting because he's doing something wrong, he's sitting because he's not doing something right. Same thing imo. In the end he's been under performing since he got here. It's too early to write him off but it's not looking to good so far, again going back to day one not just these three games.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

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Pete BSBH Legend

Pete

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I don't think it's too early to write him off, at all. He's 29. This is what he is, he isn't going to improve. He can't defend. Never could.

 

Now, he doesn't have the star forwards converting on the chances, so he's pretty much useless to this team right now. At least you give ADA games and he develops.

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Albatrosss BSBH Legend

Albatrosss

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I wouldn't worry about that...he doesn't really have any.

 

 

You might be able to flip him for a pick at the deadline, but the number of teams that would have interest in what is a 3rd pair, PP defenseman is pretty minimal, especially with 2 more years left.

 

I think any playoff team that wants to improve their PP will take a chance on Shittenkirk. As we know, playoff teams that have a chance at the cup will give up assets for rentals

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Gravesy BSBH Rising Star

Gravesy

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I certainly respect other's opinions here but I think we might be splitting hairs here. To me there is no difference between he's not sitting because he's doing something wrong, he's sitting because he's not doing something right. Same thing imo. In the end he's been under performing since he got here. It's too early to write him off but it's not looking to good so far, again going back to day one not just these three games.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

I think it’s quite a bit of difference in coaching philosophies between

 

a) benching someone for a mistake, like a careless pass in his own zone or failing to track his man and

b) benching someone for not being able to do the job he’s on the ice to do over a stretch of 3 games

 

You might say 3 games is a short leash, but we’re carrying 8 d’s meaning rotation is part of the plan.

I do agree that at the end of the day it’s about him under performing.

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Future BSBH Mite

Future

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I think any playoff team that wants to improve their PP will take a chance on Shittenkirk. As we know, playoff teams that have a chance at the cup will give up assets for rentals

Unless those teams have a d-man/pp QB get hurt, they sure won't. Washington tried it and it was a failure, teams will remember that.

 

But I mean, if you go through the top, say, 18 teams right now, how many of them need a PP QB? It's gotta be less than 5, I'm having a hard time thinking of 1. Then, how many of them can absorb a $6m cap hit the next two years? There is so much risk with a player like Shatty, and such minimal improvement on the ice, there's very little trade value there. This might be different if he was a UFA and less risky, but he's not.

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Future BSBH Mite

Future

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its only been a week of hockey and im not sure what teams look like. but im sure all 30 other teams will not have their PP clicking at a decent rate

But that 30 teams number is irrelevant.

 

It's the number of teams who would be contenders or buyers at the deadline that matters. Of those teams, how many have a bad PP, how many have a bad PP because they have no PP QB, how many of them can take on a contract. The number of teams who meet all 4 of those criteria is...really small.

 

Let's arbitrarily say there are 18 contenders right now:

 

East - Carolina, Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pitt, Philly, Florida, Columbus, Tampa

West - Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Calgary, Dallas, Chicago, Minnesota

 

How many of those teams don't have a point-producing defenseman on the PP? Calgary and Chicago?

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Albatrosss BSBH Legend

Albatrosss

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But that 30 teams number is irrelevant.

 

It's the number of teams who would be contenders or buyers at the deadline that matters. Of those teams, how many have a bad PP, how many have a bad PP because they have no PP QB, how many of them can take on a contract. The number of teams who meet all 4 of those criteria is...really small.

 

Let's arbitrarily say there are 18 contenders right now:

 

East - Carolina, Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pitt, Philly, Florida, Columbus, Tampa

West - Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Calgary, Dallas, Chicago, Minnesota

 

How many of those teams don't have a point-producing defenseman on the PP? Calgary and Chicago?

 

Edmonton, devils, st louis, Colorado could be making playoffs. you just never know how it is going to play out come February/march. All you need is one team to make a deal.

my point is that we played one week of hockey. im not writing anything off just yet.

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Giacomin BSBH Mite

Giacomin

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But that 30 teams number is irrelevant.

 

It's the number of teams who would be contenders or buyers at the deadline that matters. Of those teams, how many have a bad PP, how many have a bad PP because they have no PP QB, how many of them can take on a contract. The number of teams who meet all 4 of those criteria is...really small.

 

Let's arbitrarily say there are 18 contenders right now:

 

East - Carolina, Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pitt, Philly, Florida, Columbus, Tampa

West - Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Calgary, Dallas, Chicago, Minnesota

 

How many of those teams don't have a point-producing defenseman on the PP? Calgary and Chicago?

 

Future, you speak the truth. He has little value. GM's will remember how poor he was in Wash, plus they win the Cup after he leaves. Was hoping he'd light it up and some team would make a decent offer for him.Seems unlikely now.

 

We'd have to retain salary in most deals. I'd take a 2019 2nd rounder right now and consider it a steal. Or just a legitimate prospect. Our only hope is he's an offensive RHD that won't require your 1st rounder to get him.

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TwoMinutesForNothing BSBH Junior

TwoMinutesForNothing

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But that 30 teams number is irrelevant.

 

It's the number of teams who would be contenders or buyers at the deadline that matters. Of those teams, how many have a bad PP, how many have a bad PP because they have no PP QB, how many of them can take on a contract. The number of teams who meet all 4 of those criteria is...really small.

 

Let's arbitrarily say there are 18 contenders right now:

 

East - Carolina, Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pitt, Philly, Florida, Columbus, Tampa

West - Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Calgary, Dallas, Chicago, Minnesota

 

How many of those teams don't have a point-producing defenseman on the PP? Calgary and Chicago?

 

Calgary has Giordano who has a point per game so far and Chicago has Jokiharju who has 5 points in three games.

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