2020-21 — Reports From the Rink

[Pete]

Agree on that atleast.

 

 

 

A lot of excuses here

 

Stopped reading right here. Thanks for the debate.

[LindG1000]

I think there's 3 things that have to govern this conversation:

 

1 - You can't keep separating the good from the bad here. There is a LOT of good and a LOT to be concerned about. It's almost perfect Rangers luck and logic that you bring in Quinn to be the kid whisperer and the folks who seem to have benefitted most are folks who never found the next level elsewhere - Strome, Blackwell, Zibanejad, DeAngelo, Buchnevich - dare I add Panarin to this list? At the same time, we've got to be concerned that the offensively gifted kids not named Adam Fox are just not putting up the points.

 

2 - At some juncture, you need to start wondering whether Quinn is simply following the plan. When you think of the Bruins team that Gorton had a hand in building - it was defense becomes offense. When you think of the Jackets and Blues teams that JD built - same thing. Is this Quinn just following the plan laid out without regard for the supposed gamebreaking talent they've just had fall out of the sky?

 

3 - Let's just be blunt - Lafreniere has not earned his ice time. Drew is spot on here - and it fucking sucks to have this conversation, but it's true.

[Keirik]

You can't say he was gifted players who had career years playing for him and not give him any credit at all for them having career years. That's not how this works.

 

Zib wasn't a 40 goal 2 way center before Quinn got here.

 

Panarin, Strome, ADA, Kreider and Buch all had career years for Quinn.

 

We simply don't know what Fox would have been under another coach and Lindgren is more than anyone thought. Miller is doing nicely and Smith is competent again. Hajek is serviceable.

 

Is it Quinn's fault Kakko sucked last year? No, Quinn did not make Kakko slow and weak. Is it Quinn's fault Lafreniere sucks? I don't know but it ain't like he popped off with Knoblauch behind the bench the way Zib and Fox did.

 

Can't keep giving Quinn the blame for everything bad and no credit at all for anything good.

 

And I'll add, I don't even think Quinn is a great coach, and I wish if they fired him that the complaining would stop, but everyone always complains all the time about the coach and thinks that they know better... And I'm pretty sure if Gorton and JD thought he was ruining players, they would do something about it. But they haven't, which makes me think that it's not really possible that Quinn has the GM and two presidents of hockey operations fooled. They're just might be a chance that they think he knows what he's doing, and even if I don't have faith in Gorton, I have faith in JD.

 

I mean JD said before the season that playoffs were not a mandate, and that pretty much makes me think that he knows the quality of the team he was icing and it wasn't playoff caliber. If you wanted to show a vote of no faith in Quinn, he would have made the playoffs a mandate. If JD didn't expect this team to make the playoffs, I don't know why anybody else should.

 

The point is Quinn has all these things right now on his roster and we really are no better than we were day 1 of him here. We are just as inconsistent, all over the place, and underwhelming as we were day 1 of him here. JD isn’t some magical god like figure that shits sprinkles and pisses rainbows. Just because he says something doesn’t make it exactly so. I think it was a horrible mistake to not say playoffs was a goal this year.

 

Let’s just ask this. If we had Trotz, or Laviolette, Quennville, or someone of that ilk, do you really think we wouldn’t be a better team with more success? If you want me to give Quinn an atta boy on the back and thanks for helping some players reach or continue their potential then so be it. I’ll pat him on the back. Now let’s bring in someone that actually knows how to actually use talent because Quinn clearly doesn’t.

[Keirik]

I think there's 3 things that have to govern this conversation:

 

1 - You can't keep separating the good from the bad here. There is a LOT of good and a LOT to be concerned about. It's almost perfect Rangers luck and logic that you bring in Quinn to be the kid whisperer and the folks who seem to have benefitted most are folks who never found the next level elsewhere - Strome, Blackwell, Zibanejad, DeAngelo, Buchnevich - dare I add Panarin to this list? At the same time, we've got to be concerned that the offensively gifted kids not named Adam Fox are just not putting up the points.

 

2 - At some juncture, you need to start wondering whether Quinn is simply following the plan. When you think of the Bruins team that Gorton had a hand in building - it was defense becomes offense. When you think of the Jackets and Blues teams that JD built - same thing. Is this Quinn just following the plan laid out without regard for the supposed gamebreaking talent they've just had fall out of the sky?

 

3 - Let's just be blunt - Lafreniere has not earned his ice time. Drew is spot on here - and it fucking sucks to have this conversation, but it's true.

Gorton deserves blame too. Don’t get me wrong. It’s not all Quinn. Gorton was gifted plenty of these transactions and has not faced any backlash for so,e of his shittier decisions; (public article saying “hey we are trading off everyone”) then getting pennies on the dollar for McD and Miller, Shattenkirk, ADA debacle, signing Trouba for that money, etc. And I’m sure part of this is Gorton saying he will do it his way and his way only as well so I’m not sure if he is even the type that would admit he hired a stop gap coach.

[Sharpshooter]

Quinn isn't a Quenneville, a Laviolette or a Babcock, etc. He's just a college coach, much easier to control, a puppet! #CoachConspiracy

 

I'm only partially being facetious.

[Gravesy]

I can't be bothered to get into the Quinn vs the kids debate, it's been done numerous times already and I'm pretty sure everyone has said their piece on it.

I've heard a lot of "excuses", and some of them are valid. What I've yet to hear is a convincing argument as to why he should be the coach. It's one thing to deflect criticism, another is to make an actual case for him. The way I see it, the team hasn't really gone anywhere since he took over despite an influx of talent. The one marked improvement has been in defensive structure, which is blatantly obvious Martin's work. Apart from that, we're soon to be through 3 seasons with him I can't really see anything that makes me think this team is close to contention in any way, shape or form.

[Pete]

The point is Quinn has all these things right now on his roster and we really are no better than we were day 1 of him here. We are just as inconsistent, all over the place, and underwhelming as we were day 1 of him here. JD isn’t some magical god like figure that shits sprinkles and pisses rainbows. Just because he says something doesn’t make it exactly so. I think it was a horrible mistake to not say playoffs was a goal this year.

 

Let’s just ask this. If we had Trotz, or Laviolette, Quennville, or someone of that ilk, do you really think we wouldn’t be a better team with more success? If you want me to give Quinn an atta boy on the back and thanks for helping some players reach or continue their potential then so be it. I’ll pat him on the back. Now let’s bring in someone that actually knows how to actually use talent because Quinn clearly doesn’t.

 

The team doesn't play like a team nearly enough, and that's on the coach. But the individual nitpicking of literally every moving pointing to "Quinn's terrible!" has come to an absolutely ridiculous level....We win a game and people are complaining that Lafreniere didn't play enough. I know people have attachments to players, but the coach not playing the player you like enough, or the player you love is playing terrible hockey does not fall on the coach.

 

No, JD isn’t some magical god like figure that shits sprinkles and pisses rainbows but I find it hard to believe that Quinn pulled a fast one on Gorton, Sather, and JD. If JD had the same opinion of Quinn that you do, he'd be fired by now.

 

Which do I think is more likely, that the combination of Gorton and JD know what they are doing and are aligned with Quinn, or that a bunch of people posting on the internet know more about how to run a team than the three of them and Quinn is an idiot, Gorton is a moron and JD is oblivious to it all? Not really a hard choice there, mate.

 

Also, don't get me started on Trotz coaching here...I can already hear the massive amounts of complaining about boring hockey. Barzal is a 60 point player. Is that what you want Panarin to be? Yes they may win more games but people would be whining just the same, over other shit.

[Pete]

I can't be bothered to get into the Quinn vs the kids debate, it's been done numerous times already and I'm pretty sure everyone has said their piece on it.

I've heard a lot of "excuses", and some of them are valid. What I've yet to hear is a convincing argument as to why he should be the coach. It's one thing to deflect criticism, another is to make an actual case for him. The way I see it, the team hasn't really gone anywhere since he took over despite an influx of talent. The one marked improvement has been in defensive structure, which is blatantly obvious Martin's work. Apart from that, we're soon to be through 3 seasons with him I can't really see anything that makes me think this team is close to contention in any way, shape or form.

 

Yea, that's 100% right. Most of the debate right now on the board is people complaining about everything from when Shesty starts to the way Quinn parts his hair. Some of the critiques are valid, to your point. The rest is ... JFC let it fuckin go already. It's the same people just repeating themselves.

[BrooksBurner]

Yea, that's 100% right. Most of the debate right now on the board is people complaining about everything from when Shesty starts to the way Quinn parts his hair. Some of the critiques are valid, to your point. The rest is ... JFC let it fuckin go already. It's the same people just repeating themselves.

 

Lmao you do the same thing bitching about Kreider year after year. As long as nothing changes and Quinn keeps doing the same shit, expect it to continue.

[Long live the King]

Gorton deserves blame too. Don’t get me wrong. It’s not all Quinn. Gorton was gifted plenty of these transactions and has not faced any backlash for so,e of his shittier decisions; (public article saying “hey we are trading off everyone”) then getting pennies on the dollar for McD and Miller, Shattenkirk, ADA debacle, signing Trouba for that money, etc. And I’m sure part of this is Gorton saying he will do it his way and his way only as well so I’m not sure if he is even the type that would admit he hired a stop gap coach.

 

Aside from the "gifts" (Laf, Kakko, Fox) people say he got Gorton is responsible for Zib, Strome, Gauthier, Chytil, Miller, and Lindgren on the current roster. Also drafted Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson, Zac Jones, Reunanen, Barron, etc. As soon as next year the only players that don't have Gorton's fingerprints on them are Kreider, Buch, and Shesty who were drafted before Gorton took over.

 

I don't have any real issue with the team he is assembling. Like most people, I just wish Trouba was making a million or 2 less.

[BrooksBurner]

Aside from the "gifts" (Laf, Kakko, Fox) people say he got Gorton is responsible for Zib, Strome, Gauthier, Chytil, Miller, and Lindgren on the current roster. Also drafted Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson, Zac Jones, Reunanen, Barron, etc. As soon as next year the only players that don't have Gorton's fingerprints on them are Kreider, Buch, and Shesty who were drafted before Gorton took over.

 

I don't have any real issue with the team he is assembling. Like most people, I just wish Trouba was making a million or 2 less.

 

Or 4

[josh]

I'm fine with the contract... if he played like he was worth it. Which would be more beneficial to the team than $2m in cap.

[josh]

Yea, that's 100% right. Most of the debate right now on the board is people complaining about everything from when Shesty starts to the way Quinn parts his hair. Some of the critiques are valid, to your point. The rest is ... JFC let it fuckin go already. It's the same people just repeating themselves.

 

for the record, I've said "I like Quinn" more than I've said "fire Quinn"

 

Most of my criticism is the same from day 1. That's part of the frustration. I'd much rather discuss what can be done to make players better, rather than just calling every single prospect a bust (you).

[siddious]

Like most people, I just wish Trouba was making a million or 2 less.

 

On a different team

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[josh]

Consistent Kreider - 40-goal Zibanejad - PPG Buchnevich

MVP Panarin - Panarin's Strome - Finishing Fancy Stat Kakko

Calder Lafreniere - Chytil with more than 23 points - Not a 4th liner Kravtsov

Not Howden - PK Rooney - Go-to-goal Gauthier

 

Bloody Lindgren - Norris Fox

Miller in his Debut - Worth the money Trouba

Holy shit he improved Hajek - Didn't punch teammate DeAngelo

 

Vezina Candidate Shesterkin

actually decent Georgiev

 

 

Anything less is unacceptable.

[Pete]

Lmao you do the same thing bitching about Kreider year after year. As long as nothing changes and Quinn keeps doing the same shit, expect it to continue.

 

Except I don't.

 

I'll mention it where appropriate, in threads like should he be Captain, or maybe a GDT, but nothing near the frequency or repetition of the Quinn shit around here. Just the same people repeating themselves in every thread.

 

And it's always this way. Happened with Torts, too. We needed to have one thread with an airing of grievances for Torts because it was the same nonsense.

[Pete]

Aside from the "gifts" (Laf, Kakko, Fox) people say he got Gorton is responsible for Zib, Strome, Gauthier, Chytil, Miller, and Lindgren on the current roster. Also drafted Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson, Zac Jones, Reunanen, Barron, etc. As soon as next year the only players that don't have Gorton's fingerprints on them are Kreider, Buch, and Shesty who were drafted before Gorton took over.

 

I don't have any real issue with the team he is assembling. Like most people, I just wish Trouba was making a million or 2 less.

 

I don't see how Gorton gets credit for drafting the players his scouts tell him to, especially in later rounds it's rarely the GM knowing the players deeply enough to make a pick.

[Pete]

for the record, I've said "I like Quinn" more than I've said "fire Quinn"

 

Most of my criticism is the same from day 1. That's part of the frustration. I'd much rather discuss what can be done to make players better, rather than just calling every single prospect a bust (you).

 

Well yea, because you think the game. I mean if you were the coach, they'd have no problems. You should submit your resume. I heard they once hired a coach because he wrote a nice letter, so you probably have a shot.

[Ozzy]

Consistent Kreider - 40-goal Zibanejad - PPG Buchnevich

MVP Panarin - Panarin's Strome - Finishing Fancy Stat Kakko

Calder Lafreniere - Chytil with more than 23 points - Not a 4th liner Kravtsov

Not Howden - PK Rooney - Go-to-goal Gauthier

 

Bloody Lindgren - Norris Fox

Miller in his Debut - Worth the money Trouba

Holy shit he improved Hajek - Didn't punch teammate DeAngelo

 

Vezina Candidate Shesterkin

actually decent Georgiev

 

 

Anything less is unacceptable.

 

I love this!!! LOL

[LindG1000]

I'm fine with the contract... if he played like he was worth it. Which would be more beneficial to the team than $2m in cap.

 

I think this might be a bit of a hot take...but when you look at who Trouba's "contract peers" are - who do you really want over him? I think the moral of the story is "never pay a defender over 6.5M" - the tier of defenders who make that kind of money are almost all struggling. Doubly so when you're going to just realize that ANY of his contract peers dropped onto the Rangers are going to lose their top PP spot unless you're picking Hedman or Carlson.

 

The problem w/Trouba is that he's being paid to be Drew Doughty circa 2012 on a team that just keeps pumping out elite offensive defensemen who are better suited to the PPQB role, which really eats into his output.

[Keirik]

The team doesn't play like a team nearly enough, and that's on the coach. But the individual nitpicking of literally every moving pointing to "Quinn's terrible!" has come to an absolutely ridiculous level....We win a game and people are complaining that Lafreniere didn't play enough. I know people have attachments to players, but the coach not playing the player you like enough, or the player you love is playing terrible hockey does not fall on the coach.

 

No, JD isn’t some magical god like figure that shits sprinkles and pisses rainbows but I find it hard to believe that Quinn pulled a fast one on Gorton, Sather, and JD. If JD had the same opinion of Quinn that you do, he'd be fired by now.

 

Which do I think is more likely, that the combination of Gorton and JD know what they are doing and are aligned with Quinn, or that a bunch of people posting on the internet know more about how to run a team than the three of them and Quinn is an idiot, Gorton is a moron and JD is oblivious to it all? Not really a hard choice there, mate.

 

Also, don't get me started on Trotz coaching here...I can already hear the massive amounts of complaining about boring hockey. Barzal is a 60 point player. Is that what you want Panarin to be? Yes they may win more games but people would be whining just the same, over other shit.

I was just using Trotz as an example, not specifically him. I listed other coaches too. I'm pretty confident in saying many other coaches would get better results out of this roster than Quinn does. We all know this is what we do, we pick apart our team. It's out of passion. What we also do is troll each other unfortunately whenever we say one thing that later is proven wrong or right. Nature of the beast.

 

I think it's obvious JD en co believe they are on the correct path. I don't see it though. And you are also talking about the same management team that decide ADA was a good gamble too and give an ultimatum weeks into the season so there's that. Plenty of mistakes in this regime, hence why we have 14m in dead cap right now and at least one asinine contract in Trouba that is here until the end of the 23/24 season. There's also the idea that they signed Panarin who will be 30 this year. Why did we sign him if to over 11m if we weren't expecting to compete until around 2023+ when Panarin is 32+? If they were never looking at this year as a playoff year then they weren't exactly looking at next year as a cup run either. Then you bring back Kreider too which would seem to suggest the corner is turned and this is the team they are looking to compete with. They are just all over the place. I'm not suggesting Panarin is a bad signing, but if you aren't looking to compete when an all world player is an all world player then I'm not exactly sure this path is the right path.

 

It's kind of like the concept you've said about Strome. So busy looking to develop or get a 2c that the 2c we already has is getting overlooked as if he's not legit. Can't trade the whole team but you can change the mindset, strategy, and outlook with a different coach with a pedigree and experience. Someone has to have experience here.

You

[josh]

I think this might be a bit of a hot take...but when you look at who Trouba's "contract peers" are - who do you really want over him? I think the moral of the story is "never pay a defender over 6.5M" - the tier of defenders who make that kind of money are almost all struggling. Doubly so when you're going to just realize that ANY of his contract peers dropped onto the Rangers are going to lose their top PP spot unless you're picking Hedman or Carlson.

 

The problem w/Trouba is that he's being paid to be Drew Doughty circa 2012 on a team that just keeps pumping out elite offensive defensemen who are better suited to the PPQB role, which really eats into his output.

 

shutdown dman. He's paid $1m more than Vlassic, who is 34. Prior to NYR, he was putting up better stats than OEL, while being better defensively, who is 29 and making 8.25

 

he's never been a PPQB. He can be a shooter, but we have enough RH shots for the PP. I'd rather have him be in the game those final minutes worry about shutting down. Keep Fox for offensive opportunities so he doesnt have to play 47 minutes a game.

 

 

oh, and the Danger zone is any non-first liner/pair making more than $4.5m per.

[Long live the King]

I don't see how Gorton gets credit for drafting the players his scouts tell him to, especially in later rounds it's rarely the GM knowing the players deeply enough to make a pick.

 

It's all related...traded up to get Miller and Schneider...got Robertson with a pick from the Zucc trade. The scouts do most of the leg work, but Gorton making moves is what allowed them to make 16 top 100 picks, including 8 1st rounders, over the last 4 drafts. Plus if you can blame him for picking Andersson, then you need to give him credit for the players the work out.

[Pete]

It's all related...traded up to get Miller and Schneider...got Robertson with a pick from the Zucc trade. The scouts do most of the leg work, but Gorton making moves is what allowed them to make 16 top 100 picks, including 8 1st rounders, over the last 4 drafts. Plus if you can blame him for picking Andersson, then you need to give him credit for the players the work out.

 

Well, no because like I said, the early picks are less reliant on your scouting department. So anything he did in the first round, sure he gets credit for that. I don't give him credit for who gets picked in round 5. He likely has never seen that player for more than a handful of reels.

[Pete]

I was just using Trotz as an example, not specifically him. I listed other coaches too. I'm pretty confident in saying many other coaches would get better results out of this roster than Quinn does. We all know this is what we do, we pick apart our team. It's out of passion. What we also do is troll each other unfortunately whenever we say one thing that later is proven wrong or right. Nature of the beast.

I have followed this team since Neilsen was coach and have heard the same thing said about every single coach but Keenan. The one time we had a coach who was getting a team to punch above it's weight, people complained the hockey was too boring and they blocked too many shots.

I think it's obvious JD en co believe they are on the correct path. I don't see it though. And you are also talking about the same management team that decide ADA was a good gamble too and give an ultimatum weeks into the season so there's that. Plenty of mistakes in this regime, hence why we have 14m in dead cap right now and at least one asinine contract in Trouba that is here until the end of the 23/24 season. There's also the idea that they signed Panarin who will be 30 this year. Why did we sign him if to over 11m if we weren't expecting to compete until around 2023+ when Panarin is 32+? If they were never looking at this year as a playoff year then they weren't exactly looking at next year as a cup run either. Then you bring back Kreider too which would seem to suggest the corner is turned and this is the team they are looking to compete with. They are just all over the place. I'm not suggesting Panarin is a bad signing, but if you aren't looking to compete when an all world player is an all world player then I'm not exactly sure this path is the right path.

It doesn't always come down to ADA LOL. They signed Panarin because he's a world-class talent who wanted to come here, and you need those guys to win, and there's no guarantee you can add a guy like that later, at your convenience. And he'll still be productive at 32, most likely.

 

It's kind of like the concept you've said about Strome. So busy looking to develop or get a 2c that the 2c we already has is getting overlooked as if he's not legit. Can't trade the whole team but you can change the mindset, strategy, and outlook with a different coach with a pedigree and experience. Someone has to have experience here.

You

Yea, I agree with the sentiment here. I don't care if they replace him. I just think there are things about the team that wouldn't be different, even if the coach was.