BrooksBurner Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Those players also had their asses handed to them and did nothing vs Carolina. Like Marek says, there's guys who get you there and there's guys who get you through. We don't have anyone getting us through. I like Kevin Rooney as much as the last Paul Carey and Greg McKegg....But he ain't it. Really wish they'd have gotten a Pat Maroon-type. We don't even have those guys yet, apparently, since we aren't even making it to the playoffs. Does the other part of the equation matter that much yet then? I agree there needs to be some sandpaper in the bottom 6, but Lemieux just didn't seem to be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I get that - and that's totally fair. We're not really at the stage where we need the "guy that gets you through" though, are we? I feel like that's the move we make this off-season or at the 2022 deadline to get us over the hump, barring having been able to pull a Ryan Reaves or a Pat Maroon in. Yeah, you kind of beat me to it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Meanwhile, Artemi Panarin is 5'11 and weighs 170 soaking wet, and he seems to be perfectly fine just gallivanting around the ice scoring points. Adam Fox is 5'10, maybe 180 after a plate of spaghetti and again, seems to have no fear on the ice. Mika Zibanejad had zero problem dumping Brendan Dillon like a cheap date and scoring a goal last time we faced the Caps. Ryan Lindgren is fucking tiny and seems to have no issue blasting someone. If Lemieux's going to just go out there and be that second group (the "yeah, I got a bunch of guys who might stick up for me and get their ass beat" - which sounds like Lemieux to a T), why is this trade such a big deal? I'd much rather have Tom Wilson focus on Brendan Lemieux that anyone else. Even for 1 shift. If he can annoy Ovechkin in the same sense - great. No one on this current roster can do either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 We don't even have those guys yet, apparently, since we aren't even making it to the playoffs. Does the other part of the equation matter that much yet then? I agree there needs to be some sandpaper in the bottom 6, but Lemieux just didn't seem to be it. We also just don't really pick these guys. We have a very clear "brains over brawn" strategy when it comes to player selection and player development, and it feels like we're going to need to diversify that strategy to avoid becoming the Sharks or pre-2017 Capitals. Thing is, there's always a few of these "tough checking forward" types out there in the UFA/TDL market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 We don't even have those guys yet, apparently, since we aren't even making it to the playoffs. Does the other part of the equation matter that much yet then? I agree there needs to be some sandpaper in the bottom 6, but Lemieux just didn't seem to be it. Right, 2 separate conversations happening. 1. Team needs someone who can push back 2. Lemieux wasn't that guy anyway And he probably wasn't worth more than a 4th, he's fucking terrible. I wanted to like him, but he's just not good at anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 We also just don't really pick these guys. We have a very clear "brains over brawn" strategy when it comes to player selection and player development, and it feels like we're going to need to diversify that strategy to avoid becoming the Sharks or pre-2017 Capitals. We're already seeing a change as evidenced by their most recent draft. Cuylle, Schneider and Berard all bring some form of sandpaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I'd much rather have Tom Wilson focus on Brendan Lemieux that anyone else. Even for 1 shift. If he can annoy Ovechkin in the same sense - great. No one on this current roster can do either. I don't need Ovechkin annoyed into swinging his stick at someone. I need Ovechkin annoyed because he can't get to the spot or the slot. You know what annoys a goalscorer more than a guy calling his mom a whore and a few whacks to the back of the leg? Not scoring. Look - your point stands - we need guys who can wear down the opposition mentally and physically, and makes them think twice, and Lemieux offered some of that. He needed to do more than just "be a pest and chuck em here and there" - and that's just not happening. We're going to need to replace his toughness - ideally with someone who can, say, play some shutdown hockey, or kill penalties, or help our bottom six find the back of the net without skating behind it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 We also just don't really pick these guys. We have a very clear "brains over brawn" strategy when it comes to player selection and player development, and it feels like we're going to need to diversify that strategy to avoid becoming the Sharks or pre-2017 Capitals. Thing is, there's always a few of these "tough checking forward" types out there in the UFA/TDL market. I have no doubt they'll fill it when the time is right. In the meantime, I agree with RodrigueGabriel with respect to seeing a change in the kinds of guys they are drafting with the selection of Schneider and Cuylle last draft, and maybe they have plans to make a trade this upcoming offseason. Maybe they also wanted to see if a guy like Lemieux, or someone else, could elevate his game and step up in that role, but decided he wasn't the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I get that - and that's totally fair. We're not really at the stage where we need the "guy that gets you through" though, are we? I feel like that's the move we make this off-season or at the 2022 deadline to get us over the hump, barring having been able to pull a Ryan Reaves or a Pat Maroon in. Well that’s the big question isn’t it? But I will say this. When our 1c is 1-2 concussions away from being done as a player, I’d always want to k ow we have someone on our roster to at least attempt to keep the opposition honest. Even teams not ready for a playoff need some sort of protection. Lindgren is great at being bruised and going strong but he isn’t it. Trouba is great at a big hit (when he doesn’t miss) but he isn’t really it. Smith is....well box of rocks so maybe he’s it but meh. I’d have had a lot less problem with this trade if there were so,e other toughness somewhere. Just because a season and a half into his nhl career Fox hasn’t been destroyed in a hit doesn’t mean it can never happen. Or Panarin. Would prefer to not see a Gaborik vs Carcillo type bout again in our future.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 We're already seeing a change as evidenced by their most recent draft. Cuylle, Schneider and Berard all bring some form of sandpaper. Is Schneider really that tough? I saw him at WJC and thought he was very good, but I didn't get the "beat your ass" vibe from him. Cuylle and Berard are both shits (little shit, in Berard's case), and yeah, definitely a bit of a swing there. Even in the later rounds with Rempe, or the NCAA pulls with Rueschoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Is Schneider really that tough? I saw him at WJC and thought he was very good, but I didn't get the "beat your ass" vibe from him. Cuylle and Berard are both shits (little shit, in Berard's case), and yeah, definitely a bit of a swing there. Even in the later rounds with Rempe, or the NCAA pulls with Rueschoff. You can't fight at the WJC so it's generally a much tamer environment. Schneider is more of a wear-you-down physically type, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Well that’s the big question isn’t it? But I will say this. When our 1c is 1-2 concussions away from being done as a player, I’d always want to k ow we have someone on our roster to at least attempt to keep the opposition honest. Even teams not ready for a playoff need some sort of protection. Lindgren is great at being bruised and going strong but he isn’t it. Trouba is great at a big hit (when he doesn’t miss) but he isn’t really it. Smith is....well box of rocks so maybe he’s it but meh. I’d have had a lot less problem with this trade if there were so,e other toughness somewhere. Just because a season and a half into his nhl career Fox hasn’t been destroyed in a hit doesn’t mean it can never happen. Or Panarin. Would prefer to not see a Gaborik vs Carcillo type bout again in our future.... Honestly, the game seems to have moved past a good deal of that kind of thing. I'm infinitely more concerned about the high speed hit into the boards than I am about someone trying to ragdoll Fox or Panarin. What Morin did to Lemieux was pretty par for the course 10 years ago - now, it's a fine and reviewable. We're going to need to add toughness, but dealing Lemieux for that return at this point in this season doesn't really bug me. I'll be much more annoyed by it if we're not meaningfully addressing it when we're ready to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Awful. The only forward who plays a pesky role and will drop the gloves. Need these types for the playoffs. Seriously underutilized player. His offensive ability is very under rated. This guy WILL become better elsewhere. People said that when he left Winnipeg and it didn’t exactly pan out. Let’s call a spade a spade. 4th line grinder Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I think "tough" needs to be defined. To me, the kind of tough needed is not dirty. The tough player(s) we need can crunch people into the boards and look to be physical, and every once in a while they push the envelope when warranted. You know, an occasional "whoops" cross check to a no/low-padding area when a guy is attempting to claim space in front of your net or harassing your goalie...or a face rub when a guy pushing the envelope against your team. It doesn't mean going and looking for it when it's not warranted, and possibly resulting in a bad penalty. It doesn't mean slashes to the back of the leg to a player of no threat in an effort to be a "pest". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 People said that when he left Winnipeg and it didn’t exactly pan out. Let’s call a spade a spade. 4th line grinder Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Right. He's 25 and it's not as though he hasn't been given offensive opportunities. He was on the second PP unit for the start of this season and had some stints playing up in the lineup last season. He just doesn't have the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I agree with Pete, you want to like him but he’s not what you want him to be. And think is a good idea to continue to stock pile prospects, picks, roster spots and open up cap room—yes Lemieux was only making 1.5 mil. but I think he was due to become a restricted free agent which only means an increase in pay. You have to think that the college free agent period is fast approaching as well and we could be looking a signing a player or two there as well. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I just think if someone takes a run at one of our guys, an answer of “you just wait til next offseason or the year after when we address this” isn’t going to be an acceptable response. The game has moved past just pure savagery but fighting is actually up this year with the division realignments iirc. Or at least it was earlier in the year.But I’m also more worried of the runs by guys like Wilson too. That hasn’t stopped. I just don’t like having an answer at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I just think if someone takes a run at one of our guys, an answer of “you just wait til next offseason or the year after when we address this” isn’t going to be an acceptable response. The game has moved past just pure savagery but fighting is actually up this year with the division realignments iirc. Or at least it was earlier in the year.But I’m also more worried of the runs by guys like Wilson too. That hasn’t stopped. I just don’t like having an answer at all. Do you think a guy like Lemieux being in the lineup stops guys like Wilson from doing their thing though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Do you think a guy like Lemieux being in the lineup stops guys like Wilson from doing their thing though? Not exactly per say but having someone in the lineup that can stir things up can help. Wilson is a bad example since he’s a unicorn and a big fucker. But at least Wilson actually has fought the dude before. https://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/n259692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Lemieux simply wasn't it. Not saying NYR don't need grit, but Lemieux ideally would be a 4th line Matt Martin type and he simply isn't. Ohter unspoken problem is because his dad is the most hated NHL player of all time, he gets called for penalties for complete nonsense in a way only Swean Avery even comes close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 What about this Geertson dude in Hartford? Does he actually have some skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 What about this Geertson dude in Hartford? Does he actually have some skill? Not in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I just think if someone takes a run at one of our guys, an answer of “you just wait til next offseason or the year after when we address this” isn’t going to be an acceptable response. The game has moved past just pure savagery but fighting is actually up this year with the division realignments iirc. Or at least it was earlier in the year.But I’m also more worried of the runs by guys like Wilson too. That hasn’t stopped. I just don’t like having an answer at all. Trouba, Lindgren and Smith aren't "tough guys" but they'll do the job while also not being a liability of one of our 18 roster spots on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Not exactly per say but having someone in the lineup that can stir things up can help. Wilson is a bad example since he’s a unicorn and a big fucker. But at least Wilson actually has fought the dude before. https://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/n259692 That's the hard part - find the unicorns. Find the folks who are tough and/or pests and also talented. The Tkachuks, Wilson, Maroon, Frederic, Marchand - these guys don't grow on trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 That's the hard part - find the unicorns. Find the folks who are tough and/or pests and also talented. The Tkachuks, Wilson, Maroon, Frederic, Marchand - these guys don't grow on trees. One of these things is not like the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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