[brooks] Rangers Mishandling Ryan McDonagh Trade Has Been Lightning Boon

[LindG1000]

I love Uncle Larry trying to throw salt in the wounds and stir us up with this one.

 

I'm actually happy for Big Mac. He played his ass off for us while he was here, and he's done great for Tampa. We'll get our chance, and when we do, this will be even older news....that still won't matter!

 

We traded Hall of Famer Mike Gartner away in '94 for Glenn Anderson, who's career was just about done. But since the Rangers won the Cup that year, that trade can hardly ever be questioned....this feels like Uncle Larry just putting a spur under our saddle and saying to his "hidden account" buddies up here, "Watch me make these guys get pissed off".

 

Nice try Larry, but I ain't taking the bait! :paddle:

 

Rewatch the 94 playoffs too - Glenn Anderson was fucking brutal.

[Ozzy]

Rewatch the 94 playoffs too - Glenn Anderson was fucking brutal.

 

Mess was never a big Gartner guy, and I'm fairly sure he was behind bringing in his old buddy for one more run at the Cup.

 

But I thought that trade was a total head-scratcher when it went down.....it's strange how it never comes up as to how lop-sided that was for Toronto. But again, you win the cup, and no one can say a damn thing.

[Gravesy]

Hajek is an interesting one. Remember, Yzerman played hard ball when they wanted him included in the deal. Now, maybe he could smell blood when Gorton wanted him so badly and was just taking him for a massive ride. But it seems unlikely, given that this was happening pretty damn close to the deadline and I’m not sure he would’ve risked missing out on Mac if Hajek was just a JAG in his eyes.

[RangersIn7]

Mess was never a big Gartner guy, and I'm fairly sure he was behind bringing in his old buddy for one more run at the Cup.

 

But I thought that trade was a total head-scratcher when it went down.....it's strange how it never comes up as to how lop-sided that was for Toronto. But again, you win the cup, and no one can say a damn thing.

 

He was not a fan of Gartner. Didn’t like the fact that Gartner was not at all physical nor did he like the fact that Gartner was not useful in any role outside of an offensive one. Bad defensively. Did not kill penalties.

And despite reasonably decent numbers, Gartner wasn’t the best postseason performer. Didn’t have the reputation or habit of scoring big goals.

 

Smith made the trade to be sure. But Messier’s fingerprints are all over it.

 

Anderson did dick as a Ranger.

[Gravesy]

Mess was never a big Gartner guy, and I'm fairly sure he was behind bringing in his old buddy for one more run at the Cup.

 

But I thought that trade was a total head-scratcher when it went down.....it's strange how it never comes up as to how lop-sided that was for Toronto. But again, you win the cup, and no one can say a damn thing.

I’m pretty sure Keenan was the driving force behind that. Neil Smith said Keenan categorically dismissed Gartner as a player you could lean on when the going got tough in the playoffs.

Like you said, many of those trades were pretty rough. Amonte for Noonan and Matteau is pretty brutal, as is the Marchant trade. But they were a means to an end, and you can’t really quibble with them given the end result. And we’ll never know if they’d won if they kept the team together instead of going all in at the deadline.

[RangersIn7]

I’m pretty sure Keenan was the driving force behind that. Neil Smith said Keenan categorically dismissed Gartner as a player you could lean on when the going got tough in the playoffs.

Like you said, many of those trades were pretty rough. Amonte for Noonan and Matteau is pretty brutal, as is the Marchant trade. But they were a means to an end, and you can’t really quibble with them given the end result. And we’ll never know if they’d won if they kept the team together instead of going all in at the deadline.

 

I think Keenan and Mess were of like mind on Gartner. And Smith as well, as you said, also felt that way about him.

 

I actually think though if the lockout hadn’t occurred the following year they might have won another.

 

And the trades that hurt the most long-term over those seasons were the Tikkanen for Weight trade and the Zubov deal.

Gave away a 1C and a top pairing RH D.

[The Dude]

Go for it. Near every ranking back in the day had Fox, Howden, and Hajek in similar regards - in most cases, Howden above the other two and in many cases Hajek above Fox. You can find the receipts if you like. Keep in mind that Howden went 40+ spots before Fox, and Hajek went 20+ spots before Fox.

 

Also, "hard to remember that people were excited to see Howden and Hajek play" is a hindsight statement. There's nothing to "help me remember" here - at one point, people were excited to see Howden and Hajek get callups and play for the big club. Now, they are not.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, Panarin's had two straight career years without Namestnikov, and if I'm remembering correctly, Namestnikov was more a cap casualty than a "no chances given" move. Wasn't that right after we bought out Shattenkirk and had Brendan Smith shifting between forward and D?

 

So Ranger fans were exited about Howden and Hajek when they were drafted? WTF are you talking about? We are talking about the reaction to the acquisitions of these players. Not where they were drafted by other teams. Most everyone was wondering why Gorton was locked in on Hajek and had already deemed Howden as an AHL lifer. Some people here were talking about Fox shortly after the Flames drafted him (not me).

I don't recall much excitement when Hajek and Howden got called up. People were excited about Kravtsov and Shestyorkin. Not the head scraper acquisitions.

 

The Rangers stepped in shit with Strome. Nobody could have seen this resurgence. Some still fail to see it. Namestnikov could have either been Panarins center or winger, but we never got to see it. He was buried on the 4th line. That's not to say he didn't deserve that. He wasn't good here at all. I just think they could have tried a different avenue and tried to get something out of him before dealing him for nothing.

 

Panarin may have had 2 career years with Strome. Just imagine what the numbers would have looked like had he played with a better winger. Are you one of the people trying to unseat Strome by getting Eichel?

[Ozzy]

I think Keenan and Mess were of like mind on Gartner. And Smith as well, as you said, also felt that way about him.

 

I actually think though if the lockout hadn’t occurred the following year they might have won another.

 

And the trades that hurt the most long-term over those seasons were the Tikkanen for Weight trade and the Zubov deal.

Gave away a 1C and a top pairing RH D.

 

I could even find a way to validate Weight for Tik....Tikannen was pretty useful throughout those playoffs, but Zubov??? That one still stings.

 

Amonte's deal brought in the grit players Mess and Keenan wanted. I was never a Tony Amonte guy...I thought he played like a pussy, and always seemed to disappear in big games for the Blackhawks. Noonan and Matteau were just what the doctor ordered here, as attested to by game 7 against NJ...

 

That and the fact that they would hang out in the Play By Play until the wee hours of the night!! Noonan did, anyway....;)

[LindG1000]

So Ranger fans were exited about Howden and Hajek when they were drafted? WTF are you talking about? We are talking about the reaction to the acquisitions of these players. Not where they were drafted by other teams. Most everyone was wondering why Gorton was locked in on Hajek and had already deemed Howden as an AHL lifer. Some people here were talking about Fox shortly after the Flames drafted him (not me).

I don't recall much excitement when Hajek and Howden got called up. People were excited about Kravtsov and Shestyorkin. Not the head scraper acquisitions.

 

The Rangers stepped in shit with Strome. Nobody could have seen this resurgence. Some still fail to see it. Namestnikov could have either been Panarins center or winger, but we never got to see it. He was buried on the 4th line. That's not to say he didn't deserve that. He wasn't good here at all. I just think they could have tried a different avenue and tried to get something out of him before dealing him for nothing.

 

Panarin may have had 2 career years with Strome. Just imagine what the numbers would have looked like had he played with a better winger. Are you one of the people trying to unseat Strome by getting Eichel?

 

Follow the argument, please. These were two highly touted players - drafted high, at the time, two of the Lightning's five or six top prospects - that folks were excited to see once they were acquired. Yes, people were excited to see Howden and Hajek, same as they were to see Andersson. That it didn't work out doesn't change that the NHL writ large rated them all as first round talents. Go find their prospect threads.

 

I don't understand how with you everything the Rangers do wrong could have been avoided by better coaching or GM work, but everything they do right is pure dumb luck and nobody deserves credit. Like nobody deserves credit for flipping Ryan Spooner into one of the best centers in the NHL? Panarin wasn't good enough because his RW isn't Namestnikov or at least "better than Colin Blackwell"? At some point you have to give some credit to the coaches and GMs for identifying and matching up the right players in some capacity.

[Long live the King]

At the end of the day the McD trade signified 100% commitment to rebuilding. We now have Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Schneider, etc. I classify that as a win.

[Phil]

At the end of the day the McD trade signified 100% commitment to rebuilding. We now have Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Schneider, etc. I classify that as a win.

 

Long-term, yes, but the trade itself was a complete blunder barring a massively positive outcome re: Lundkvist.

[Keirik]

It was a horrendous trade. It doesn’t signify anything except that we got hosed by Tampa that day.

[LindG1000]

Long-term, yes, but the trade itself was a complete blunder barring a massively positive outcome re: Lundkvist.

 

Yep. Hindsight being what it is, we'd have been better off demanding two critical pieces instead of 4 sorta-kinda key pieces. You cut the two picks out and get either of the barely-NHL players on that 2018 Lightning team (Point, Cirelli, Sergachev)....even Cernak?

[RangersIn7]

I could even find a way to validate Weight for Tik....Tikannen was pretty useful throughout those playoffs, but Zubov??? That one still stings.

 

Amonte's deal brought in the grit players Mess and Keenan wanted. I was never a Tony Amonte guy...I thought he played like a pussy, and always seemed to disappear in big games for the Blackhawks. Noonan and Matteau were just what the doctor ordered here, as attested to by game 7 against NJ...

 

That and the fact that they would hang out in the Play By Play until the wee hours of the night!! Noonan did, anyway....;)

 

Tikk was definitely useful and effective for the Rangers in 94. No denying that.

And when he went to St. Louis the following season, he was outstanding and was the runner-up for the Selke Trophy.

But as a Ranger, 94 was it.

 

Weight on the other hand, blossomed into a true 1C and had his first of several big seasons by 95-96.

 

Trading Zubov though was so insanely stupid.

I was like 15-16 years old at the time and even at that age I knew it would have tremendous repercussions of a negative nature.

That’s how obvious it was.

[Albatrosss]

It was a horrendous trade. It doesn’t signify anything except that we got hosed by Tampa that day.

 

or just maybe we overvalued McD. In TB he is a solid 2nd pairing guy. Not sure TB is goes all the way twice in a row with McD as a first pairing D.

[Phil]

Yep. Hindsight being what it is, we'd have been better off demanding two critical pieces instead of 4 sorta-kinda key pieces. You cut the two picks out and get either of the barely-NHL players on that 2018 Lightning team (Point, Cirelli, Sergachev)....even Cernak?

 

Point is likely a non-starter, even then. Maybe even Sergachev. That's who all the fans wanted. But Cirelli and Sergachev both fit the bill for guys you could a lot more reasonably expect to make your NHL roster immediately. Cernak, too.

[LindG1000]

Point is likely a non-starter, even then. Maybe even Sergachev. That's who all the fans wanted. But Cirelli and Sergachev both fit the bill for guys you could a lot more reasonably expect to make your NHL roster immediately. Cernak, too.

 

Cirelli and Sergachev were both roster players for the Lightning that season. Cirelli got a late-season callup, I think, and Sergachev had 40 points.

[Gravesy]

Sergachev was always a complete non starter. Not only was he always an elite prospect, it would also be complete insanity to move him from a roster construction perspective. That was literally never on the cards.

[The Dude]

Follow the argument, please. These were two highly touted players - drafted high, at the time, two of the Lightning's five or six top prospects - that folks were excited to see once they were acquired. Yes, people were excited to see Howden and Hajek, same as they were to see Andersson. That it didn't work out doesn't change that the NHL writ large rated them all as first round talents. Go find their prospect threads.

 

I don't understand how with you everything the Rangers do wrong could have been avoided by better coaching or GM work, but everything they do right is pure dumb luck and nobody deserves credit. Like nobody deserves credit for flipping Ryan Spooner into one of the best centers in the NHL? Panarin wasn't good enough because his RW isn't Namestnikov or at least "better than Colin Blackwell"? At some point you have to give some credit to the coaches and GMs for identifying and matching up the right players in some capacity.

 

Annnnnnd you totally took this discussion into some weird direction of putting words in my mouth and moving the goal posts.

 

Thanks but I'm not doing this back and forth where you just exaggerate everything I say..

 

Panarin wasn't good enough? Yeah. That's what I said.

 

Later..

[LindG1000]

Annnnnnd you totally took this discussion into some weird direction of putting words in my mouth and moving the goal posts.

 

Thanks but I'm not doing this back and forth where you just exaggerate everything I say..

 

Panarin wasn't good enough? Yeah. That's what I said.

 

Later..

 

The Rangers stepped in shit with Strome. Nobody could have seen this resurgence. Some still fail to see it. Namestnikov could have either been Panarins center or winger, but we never got to see it. He was buried on the 4th line. That's not to say he didn't deserve that. He wasn't good here at all. I just think they could have tried a different avenue and tried to get something out of him before dealing him for nothing.

 

Panarin may have had 2 career years with Strome. Just imagine what the numbers would have looked like had he played with a better winger. Are you one of the people trying to unseat Strome by getting Eichel?

 

Weird flex given the general nature of your posts in this thread, but okay.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Maybe the Rangers will sign McDonagh after Tampa buys him out this summer.

 

 

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[Dunny]

I've always wondered if TB was actually high on Hajek, or just led Gorton down the garden path, feigning their belief in Hajek, while providing all the confirmation bias Gorton needed to include Miller, for essentially nothing.

[ThirtyONE]

I've always wondered if TB was actually high on Hajek, or just led Gorton down the garden path, feigning their belief in Hajek, while providing all the confirmation bias Gorton needed to include Miller.

 

Teams don't make trades based on how high the holding team is on a player. They have their own scouts.

[Dunny]

Teams don't make trades based on how high the holding team is on a player. They have their own scouts.

 

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Pete]

I've always wondered if TB was actually high on Hajek, or just led Gorton down the garden path, feigning their belief in Hajek, while providing all the confirmation bias Gorton needed to include Miller, for essentially nothing.

You mean like...

 

Gorton: "We want Sergachev..."

 

Yzerman: "... Uhhhhh... Well as long as you don't want Hajek. He's the REAL non-starter!" ;)

 

Gorton: "Well I want HIM then!"

 

Yzerman: "Only if you sweeten it up..."

 

 

Fuckin Gorton.