Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Who said he "showed up out of shape"?

Drury said before pre season he liked his game and that he didnt need prospect camp. If he was that out of shape prospect camp would maybe have been a good idea?

Yea, I give up here. You know best.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

The flip side of that is they waive Hajek, he gets claimed and people bitch and moan about losing an asset for nothign when Krav, who is sitting due to a conditioning stint, is not even playing.

If the intention was to have Krav get in game shape and come back up its safe to assume one of Tinordi, Gauthier, Hunt, or Hajek is a goner anyway. Krav just being a little bitch at the end of the day.

Im pretty sure no one would bitch about losing Hajek. I think most people would be happy for it.

And yeah, I have agreed that Kravtsov didn't handle this the best way possible, but its the 2nd time in short time the org fucks up like this, but no one gives a shit and just blames the 20-21 y old for everything instead. Lias got the blame then and Krav gets the blame now.

Now I see there's a new thread about the FO's ability to fuck things up, so I guess I'll go and bitch there instead.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Im pretty sure no one would bitch about losing Hajek. I think most people would be happy for it.

And yeah, I have agreed that Kravtsov didn't handle this the best way possible, but its the 2nd time in short time the org fucks up like this, but no one gives a shit and just blames the 20-21 y old for everything instead. Lias got the blame then and Krav gets the blame now.

Now I see there's a new thread about the FO's ability to fuck things up, so I guess I'll go and bitch there instead.

Or you could look at it as Krav fucked up with 2 front offices who both decided he should be in the A?

Also not sure what being 20 or 21 has to do with it. Jones is 21 and Barron is 22. They are handling their demotions just fine.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Pete

[siddious]

1 minute ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Im pretty sure no one would bitch about losing Hajek. I think most people would be happy for it.

And yeah, I have agreed that Kravtsov didn't handle this the best way possible, but its the 2nd time in short time the org fucks up like this, but no one gives a shit and just blames the 20-21 y old for everything instead. Lias got the blame then and Krav gets the blame now.

Now I see there's a new thread about the FO's ability to fuck things up, so I guess I'll go and bitch there instead.

Id bitch about losing Hajek for nothing. Thats just bad asset management at the end of the day. Get a 5th rounder for him. He's gotta be worth at least that.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Just now, Pete said:

Yea, I give up here. You know best.

Lol, Im legit asking a question? I can't read everything because of pay-wall's and not every site is available where Im from.

I have not read anyone say he showed up out of shape, so did someone say that or did you just throw in a false statement to make your argument look better?

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Lol, Im legit asking a question? I can't read everything because of pay-wall's and not every site is available where Im from.

I have not read anyone say he showed up out of shape, so did someone say that or did you just throw in a false statement to make your argument look better?

It's not my argument, it's the decision of the GM and Coach, I'm just agreeing with it.

But of course you know better than them, with your years of experience. Carry on!

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Or you could look at it as Krav fucked up with 2 front offices who both decided he should be in the A?

Also not sure what being 20 or 21 has to do with it. Jones is 21 and Barron is 22. They are handling their demotions just fine.

Well yes, I look at it that way. You know, its possible to have two thoughts at the same time and two things can be true at the same time. Kravtsov fucked up, Rangers fucked up. Who's mainly to blame? No one really know, because we're just going by some random statements from beat writers (who's changing their mind every day it seems).

Well yeah they're 21 and 22, and people are different. You also compare two europeans with two americans, there's a difference in mindset and how they look at things, there can also be comunication problems etc.

But fuck it, Im done with this. You can continue to think this is 100% Krav's fault and continue to call him a bitch everytime you get the chance.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's not my argument, it's the decision of the GM and Coach, I'm just agreeing with it.

But of course you know better than them, with your years of experience. Carry on!

lmao so you can't answer the simple question of who said he was out of shape and instead starts with the personal attacks? nice

Congrats on being old and having watched sports for longer than me I guess.

[LindG1000]

So the pieces are coming into place here rather quickly.

Yesterday, we mused that we don't know why he would react like this unless the conversation went poorly. It sounds like the Rangers laid out a few key items - he needed conditioning, he'd be back up in short order - and Kravtsov balked at it.

Not much more to say here. I think the Rangers feel like they're doing the right thing. Kravtsov feels like he's been misled. Trust is broken - time to move on.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

lmao so you can't answer the simple question of who said he was out of shape and instead starts with the personal attacks? nice

Congrats on being old and having watched sports for longer than me I guess.

Being out of shape is implied in Carp's latest. If you don't like that phrasing, use his actual phrasing:

"He was told, in no uncertain terms, that he needed to go down and work on his conditioning after his lower-body injury during training camp. If he did so, he’d be back up quickly."

No matter how you slice this — "out of shape," "poor conditioning," etc. — the fact remains he was communicated with (in "no uncertain terms") and both the coaching staff and the front office, who unequivocally know more about this than we do, felt he was not ready for the NHL. Period.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

Being out of shape is implied in Carp's latest. If you don't like that phrasing, use his actual phrasing:

"He was told, in no uncertain terms, that he needed to go down and work on his conditioning after his lower-body injury during training camp. If he did so, he’d be back up quickly."

No matter how you slice this — "out of shape," "poor conditioning," etc. — the fact remains he was communicated with (in "no uncertain terms") and both the coaching staff and the front office, who unequivocally know more about this than we do, felt he was not ready for the NHL. Period.

Well yeah, im not questioning that. I know why they sent him down. Im just asking for the source that said he "showed up [to training camp] out of shape". Because there's big difference between having a lazy summer and showing up out of shape and needing some conditioning after an injury.

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

We already know they have an issue with Krav's off-season training. Follow the facts, this kid showed up out of shape, got hurt, didn't do enough to show he was NHL ready, and was told to go down and get in shape.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Well yeah, im not questioning that. I know why they sent him down. Im just asking for the source that said he "showed up [to training camp] out of shape". Because there's big difference between having a lazy summer and showing up out of shape and needing some conditioning after an injury.

I mean, that's fine. That's why I said, I'm fine rejecting that phrasing. To me, "out of shape," is no different, really, than "in poor condition." Depending on the framing, they mean the same thing. I don't think Pete was insinuating he's some fat slob. He was saying, at least as far as I'm reading, that he was not in game shape. Whatever that means, exactly.

[LindG1000]

Just now, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Well yeah, im not questioning that. I know why they sent him down. Im just asking for the source that said he "showed up [to training camp] out of shape". Because there's big difference between having a lazy summer and showing up out of shape and needing some conditioning after an injury.

Even if he needs conditioning - fine. It's not unusual to get the "you're first call-up, just get right" line.

As we're piecing this together, this feels way less like asset mismanagement and way more like Kravtsov overreacting to what amounts to the right decision.

[Sharpshooter]

As time went on, I figured this would iron itself out. I figured it was more of a Krav things than a Rangers thing. I definitely think Drury sees him as an asset on the ice and wants him to round out into game shape more. He didn't really mishandle anything. I don't believe he's that stupid, even being new in a GM position.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

Even if he needs conditioning - fine. It's not unusual to get the "you're first call-up, just get right" line.

As we're piecing this together, this feels way less like asset mismanagement and way more like Kravtsov overreacting to what amounts to the right decision.

If this was explained matter of factly(as Carpinello lays out in his about face comments in the Athletic this morning), and Kravtsov still went off the rails; then I agree this is not an asset management issue. Will be curious to see how this plays out considering that Krvtsov's agent literally has no leverage whatsoever.

[josh]

4 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

If this was explained matter of factly(as Carpinello lays out in his about face comments in the Athletic this morning), and Kravtsov still went off the rails; then I agree this is not an asset management issue. Will be curious to see how this plays out considering that Krvtsov's agent literally has no leverage whatsoever.

It’s carp, he’s feeding the birds what they want to hear

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by josh

[Keirik]

I think it’s important to remember this is a kid, and a kid that is new to North America, this culture, the language, and everything. We saw it with Andersson in a similar situation. There were worries with Kakko himself for being so young and new to this culture and we saw major struggles in his game. So much so that some were hoping for a Finnish teammate just so he felt more comfortable. Hartford is a very different place than being around the big club. A conditioning assignment in Hartford is also a different situation than regaining conditioning  in New York. 
 

   I still believe this ultimately is on the organization. If it’s a pissing match, then we are losing a top tier talent in a position we aren’t exactly deep in because grown adults would rather take a stand rather than mend fences. In the end both parties lose. 
 

[Long live the King]

38 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I think it’s important to remember this is a kid, and a kid that is new to North America, this culture, the language, and everything. We saw it with Andersson in a similar situation. There were worries with Kakko himself for being so young and new to this culture and we saw major struggles in his game. So much so that some were hoping for a Finnish teammate just so he felt more comfortable. Hartford is a very different place than being around the big club. A conditioning assignment in Hartford is also a different situation than regaining conditioning  in New York. 
 

   I still believe this ultimately is on the organization. If it’s a pissing match, then we are losing a top tier talent in a position we aren’t exactly deep in because grown adults would rather take a stand rather than mend fences. In the end both parties lose. 
 

What does it say to the other players if the org lets Krav do whatever he wants and dictate roster moves?

[Keirik]

16 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

What does it say to the other players if the org lets Krav do whatever he wants and dictate roster moves?

I don't know. What does that say to Jones that Lundkvist is on the team and never had to touch the A while we also trade for a fellow Swede so he feels comfortable? What does it say to any of them when Kakko had statistically one of the worst seasons in the league his rookie year and the team keeps chugging along with him and we hire Tuomo Ruutu to transition him along? Hell Kakko in his rookie year opened up to a Finnish newspaper himself publicly after like 3 games into the season saying he was frustrated about lack of minutes understanding that he isn't playing well but it would be cool to get first line minutes. Yet Kravtsov himself hasn't said anything publicly but we vilify him now when, if anything is true about his exit interview, it was private and leaked by the team themselves since no journalists are at exit interviews. That's trash to me and very unprofessional. A 20 year old being unprofessional I can understand. A 100 year old organization I cannot. 

 

 Every player is a different situation. It's not all round peg round hole. That's the job of the organization to fully know that. The point isn't whether Krav is dictating anything. It's about how dumb of an idea it was to demote him right now in the first place when he did everything they asked the last year and a half knowing you'd lose him. An olive branch right now might have went further after the last two seasons. They have no problem extending some serious special treatment for other people.

We discussed this ad nauseum yesterday. We disagree. 

[Albatrosss]

i personally think Carp is on the rangers payroll.  

[siddious]

Just now, CCCP said:

i personally think Carp is on the rangers payroll.  

I dont think so he harps on a few things such as Dolan being annoying a bit too often for that.

I think he does his job in a very lazy manner. 

[Sharpshooter]

Carpinello and Brooks get their talking points from this place and just go from there. lol

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sharpshooter

[Albatrosss]

they get it from Pete when he makes shit up 

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

I dont think so he harps on a few things such as Dolan being annoying a bit too often for that.

I think he does his job in a very lazy manner. 

I'm sure he's reading this post as we speak, Nashty!!  LOL

You see all those "guests" in the "whose online" part of the forum?  Yeah well....I'd bet my bung hole there's a few of them in there stealing our shit. 

Fuck!  I'll even bet Uncle Larry stole a few of my Ozzy-isms already for his buddies at the bar!!! 

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

Carpinello and Brooks get their talking points from this place and just go from there. lol

Sharpy knows... 

[siddious]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I'm sure he's reading this post as we speak, Nashty!!  LOL

You see all those "guests" in the "whose online" part of the forum?  Yeah well....I'd bet my bung hole there's a few of them in there stealing our shit. 

Fuck!  I'll even bet Uncle Larry stole a few of my Ozzy-isms already for his buddies at the bar!!! 

Sharpy knows... 

Larry doesnt strike me as the type to go to bars. Or to have friends.