Time for a Lafreniere Reset

[The Dude]

With Panarin out, he has no excuses. He's getting top 6 minutes with the #2 center and...  Goodrow,  whom has had a nice stretch in the last 3+.

 

Ok maybe he has an excuse, but he's getting the opportunity he seriously doesn't deserve. Not that anyone else deserves it more. I mean atleast Gauthier is getting scoring chances. That's more than what can be said about Lafreniere and Chytil.  I really feel for that guy. He's totally snake bit. 

 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

I thought yesterday was one of Lafreniere's more noticeable games, if that's anything to go by. Instead of talking about getting points and creating scoring chances, we're just concerned with him merely being noticeable. lol

Edited January 3, 2022 by Sharpshooter

[The Dude]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I thought yesterday was one of Lafreniere's more noticeable games, if that's anything to go by. Instead of talking about getting points and creating scoring chances, we're just concerned with him merely being noticeable. lol

Gotta start somewhere.  I only saw decent defense out of him yesterday.  That's not what he was drafted for.  I want to see him control a shift. Do SOMETHING skilled with the puck. Tired of seeing him gain the zone with some momentum to just curl around and dump it and head back the other way, no matter what is going on.  

 

He's been invisible on offense. More so than Chytil and Gauthier.  Gauthier atleast gets chances that he creates on his own  (he has to with playing with the choads he's saddled with). 

 

I'd rather give Gauthier the minutes Lafreniere will be receiving. Heck. Why not give them both some time with Strome? Goodrow has been good there, but I don’t think it's something that will last. More of a Tampa thing than anything. 

 

So, let's see Lafreniere and Gauthier get that upgrade at center! Stromer!

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

I totally get the hate and the disappointment with what we have seen so far. Totally warranted and understood. 
 

I am at an in-between. I’m concerned, sure, because based off what was said about him, we should be seeing tons more. I get that. It’s not just the production; it’s the eye test. And right now, I agree, he’s not passing it.

 

That being said, I am being patient here. I get all the pomp and circumstance that came with him being a consensus 1 overall. But, he is still a baby and has a lot of room to grow. At age 20, this is the first time in his young hockey life that he not only isn’t producing more than his peers, but is also not the best player on the ice. And honestly, I think from the standpoint of professionalism, he’s handled these struggles quite well. Most kids his age can easily shut down mentally when the going gets tough and they’re not scoring 180 points in 50 games the way they did in Juniors. Lafreniere definitely hears what is being said about him, knows his play needs to improve, yet he still is able to keep a level head which is not easy at that age, especially in this market, where a lot is expected every night.

 

I still have faith. It’s obviously a work in progress. But I remain confident that if we remain patient, in the long run, this kid will be a major asset for us.

[Sharpshooter]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind. Actually it looked like Lafreniere almost got in the way of Strome last night, which would have resulted in no goal and just a broken play. Not only is his skating not great, but his hockey IQ isn't the best either. Almost all of his goals in the NHL have been off of great plays from linemates where he's tapping it into the empty side. Even his most recent goal was the result of an awful turnover by Elliott. You credit him for being aggressive there, I guess, but for the most part he doesn't create anything...at all.

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I totally get the hate and the disappointment with what we have seen so far. Totally warranted and understood. 
 

I am at an in-between. I’m concerned, sure, because based off what was said about him, we should be seeing tons more. I get that. It’s not just the production; it’s the eye test. And right now, I agree, he’s not passing it.

 

That being said, I am being patient here. I get all the pomp and circumstance that came with him being a consensus 1 overall. But, he is still a baby and has a lot of room to grow. At age 20, this is the first time in his young hockey life that he not only isn’t producing more than his peers, but is also not the best player on the ice. And honestly, I think from the standpoint of professionalism, he’s handled these struggles quite well. Most kids his age can easily shut down mentally when the going gets tough and they’re not scoring 180 points in 50 games the way they did in Juniors. Lafreniere definitely hears what is being said about him, knows his play needs to improve, yet he still is able to keep a level head which is not easy at that age, especially in this market, where a lot is expected every night.

 

I still have faith. It’s obviously a work in progress. But I remain confident that if we remain patient, in the long run, this kid will be a major asset for us.

He's still on pace for 20 goals or so, which isn't terrible for a 20 year old, I suppose. But, it's not necessarily about the scoresheet from him, it's just looking like he belongs at the NHL level. We talk about Kreider being invisible sometimes, but we can go a couple of weeks thinking Laf didn't play when actually he's just been totally invisible. Yeah, he's still working at it, but I don't like going several games without even noticing him. I never said he wouldn't wind up being good, but these concerns are still legitimate in the now.

[jsm7302]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

He's still on pace for 20 goals or so, which isn't terrible for a 20 year old, I suppose. But, it's not necessarily about the scoresheet from him, it's just looking like he belongs at the NHL level. We talk about Kreider being invisible sometimes, but we can go a couple of weeks thinking Laf didn't play when actually he's just been totally invisible. Yeah, he's still working at it, but I don't like going several games without even noticing him. I never said he wouldn't wind up being good, but these concerns are still legitimate in the now.

 

What kind of ice time is he logging? Enough to be noticeable? He has a shit center too. Definite disappointment but maybe an upgrade at center and some chemistry could help??

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

 

What kind of ice time is he logging? Enough to be noticeable? He has a shit center too. Definite disappointment but maybe an upgrade at center and some chemistry could help??

It's a combination of applying himself a bit more and getting better linemates. Yes, that is also an issue.

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I totally get the hate and the disappointment with what we have seen so far. Totally warranted and understood. 
 

I am at an in-between. I’m concerned, sure, because based off what was said about him, we should be seeing tons more. I get that. It’s not just the production; it’s the eye test. And right now, I agree, he’s not passing it.

 

That being said, I am being patient here. I get all the pomp and circumstance that came with him being a consensus 1 overall. But, he is still a baby and has a lot of room to grow. At age 20, this is the first time in his young hockey life that he not only isn’t producing more than his peers, but is also not the best player on the ice. And honestly, I think from the standpoint of professionalism, he’s handled these struggles quite well. Most kids his age can easily shut down mentally when the going gets tough and they’re not scoring 180 points in 50 games the way they did in Juniors. Lafreniere definitely hears what is being said about him, knows his play needs to improve, yet he still is able to keep a level head which is not easy at that age, especially in this market, where a lot is expected every night.

 

I still have faith. It’s obviously a work in progress. But I remain confident that if we remain patient, in the long run, this kid will be a major asset for us.

 

I see it in him, and I believe this kid is going to be a very valuable piece of the puzzle here.  He hasn't produced as much as a lot of us expected for a #1 OA, I get that...BUT he's seemed to have learned to play the 200 foot NHL game very well so far.

 

That's pretty important, especially for a team that looks earmarked for the playoffs.  I have no doubts about this kid having the scoring touch, and it's going to happen...I believe that 100%

 

He plays with an edge, and he is not afraid to get to the dirty areas of the ice.   I just keep trying to understand he's only 20....He's going to be a complete player, that can play all areas and aspects of the game...not to mention put up 30-35 goals a season in the not too distant future!

[Ozzy]

I don't even want to use Chytil or his linemates as an excuse at this point.  He should, and will be able to play with any of them, and make them better by just being on their line.

 

He can do that!  ...and he will do that at some point.  Right now he's playing solid 2 way hockey, and seems to be learning the defensive part of the game.  He's not really hurting us defensively out there, and has made some pretty good defensive plays of late.  I actually like the fact that he's taken to the defensive part of the game!

 

...and he's on pace to score about 20, which isn't lighting the world on fire, but I truly believe eventually he will.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I totally get the hate and the disappointment with what we have seen so far. Totally warranted and understood. 
 

I am at an in-between. I’m concerned, sure, because based off what was said about him, we should be seeing tons more. I get that. It’s not just the production; it’s the eye test. And right now, I agree, he’s not passing it.

 

That being said, I am being patient here. I get all the pomp and circumstance that came with him being a consensus 1 overall. But, he is still a baby and has a lot of room to grow. At age 20, this is the first time in his young hockey life that he not only isn’t producing more than his peers, but is also not the best player on the ice. And honestly, I think from the standpoint of professionalism, he’s handled these struggles quite well. Most kids his age can easily shut down mentally when the going gets tough and they’re not scoring 180 points in 50 games the way they did in Juniors. Lafreniere definitely hears what is being said about him, knows his play needs to improve, yet he still is able to keep a level head which is not easy at that age, especially in this market, where a lot is expected every night.

 

I still have faith. It’s obviously a work in progress. But I remain confident that if we remain patient, in the long run, this kid will be a major asset for us.

At what point does having a good attitude about not producing as a 1st OA start being an issue instead of praise? 

 

He stinks and has a great attitude about it. Is that all it takes these days. You know. Greg Mckegg is a swell guy. He sucks. But man. He's got a good attitude.  Let's keep him in the lineup too. 

 

A stretch, I know.  But I think the point is that we all should expect more. 

[RichieNextel305]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

At what point does having a good attitude about not producing as a 1st OA start being an issue instead of praise? 

 

He stinks and has a great attitude about it. Is that all it takes these days. You know. Greg Mckegg is a swell guy. He sucks. But man. He's got a good attitude.  Let's keep him in the lineup too. 

 

A stretch, I know.  But I think the point is that we all should expect more. 

I mean, no disrespect, but you took like 1/10th of my post and ignored the rest of what I said. I know his on-ice play is a problem, I know he’s not passing the eye test, I know his production is down. I’m not disagreeing with you or anyone else about that. I, for sure, expected more at this point.

 

But again, it isn’t as though we are racing against the clock to get him to the level we want and need him to be. If it takes a little, it takes a little. My point is, I’m preaching patience with him. I agree, I’d like to see more. I do think, in time, we will see more.

[Pete]

I don't know where people are seeing all this "talent", what's his talent?

 

Skating? No

Shooting? Maybe, kinda?

Passing? Not really...

 

He was on pace for 31 points over 82 last year and is now on pace for a 23 point season.

Faith is all well and good but faith for faith's sake is not. I don't know where people are putting faith because he isn't showing much.

 

Also, no one "hates" Lafreniere. I think everyone is rooting for him to succeed, but he needs to throw us a bone.

[The Dude]

4 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I mean, no disrespect, but you took like 1/10th of my post and ignored the rest of what I said. I know his on-ice play is a problem, I know he’s not passing the eye test, I know his production is down. I’m not disagreeing with you or anyone else about that. I, for sure, expected more at this point.

 

But again, it isn’t as though we are racing against the clock to get him to the level we want and need him to be. If it takes a little, it takes a little. My point is, I’m preaching patience with him. I agree, I’d like to see more. I do think, in time, we will see more.

I don't see this ending the way you do. Typically you see flashes of brilliance by now. The ability to take over a shift would be promising. He's yet to do it man. And all the positive Ju Ju  that some people are throwing around is only delaying the inevitable. 

 

I don't see the complete player. I see a player desperately trying to stay in the lineup and making a defensive play or 2 to keep that going. If the Rangers had ANY forward depth an argument for scratching him could seriously be made. 

 

I think now more than ever they absolutely need him to figure it out.  This isn't supposed to be a project player. He was to be the surest of the sure thing. If he's NOT an offensive force,  they need to figure that out now. His and Kakkos next contract are vital decisions for this franchise.  This ho hum, wait and see, positive in negative thought process is only going to make this harder, when these 2 use the recent Hughes contract as a bargaining point.

 

I'd rather they produce ASAP like they should, and get paid, than not produce and get paid solely on draft position like Hughes just did. It's gotta get figured out sooner than you think. 

 

I mean that's my take on it. Be as patient as you want. My patience is wearing VERY thin and as usual I will vent about it. 

 

 

[LindG1000]

The two biggest reasons you have to still "believe" in Lafreniere:

 

1 - He is truly buried on the depth chart, so you can say it's fair that we're asking him to play a game that isn't usually how he's played nor had the opportunity to play his game. 

2 - This many scouts could not have been this wrong about this guy.

 

 

[Phil]

3. They have no other choice but to.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, G1000 said:

it's fair that we're asking him to play a game that isn't usually how he's played nor had the opportunity to play his game. 

No! This is not true. He's not asking to be a grinder. He's being asked to play with a skilled center (who sucks, but still) and a power-forward-type.

 

The only thing he isn't getting is massive PP time, and when you watch him play you can see why Kakko for the nod when Panarin goes out.

[Drew a Penalty]

5 minutes ago, G1000 said:

 

1 - He is truly buried on the depth chart, so you can say it's fair that we're asking him to play a game that isn't usually how he's played nor had the opportunity to play his game. 

The issue I take with this is that there's nothing definitively different about Lafreniere's game when his role expands. He's gotten opportunities in the top six and powerplay before only to exhibit the same tendencies. He hasn't even been able to be a beneficiary of playing as the third man for dynamic duos like Bread-Strome and Kreider-Zib. He's supposed to be a driver of play yet struggles to even be a passenger. At this point he's running alongside the car.

[LindG1000]

5 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

The issue I take with this is that there's nothing definitively different about Lafreniere's game when his role expands. He's gotten opportunities in the top six and powerplay before only to exhibit the same tendencies. He hasn't even been able to be a beneficiary of playing as the third man for dynamic duos like Bread-Strome and Kreider-Zib. He's supposed to be a driver of play yet struggles to even be a passenger. At this point he's running alongside the car.

 

Yep - that's true, and that's the more worrying thing for me. It bothers me that he gets third line minutes with Gauthier and Chytil, but I can draw the line if that were the only issue. I mind that when he has been asked to step in, it's not translated to the scoresheet.

 

What the hell happened to a guy who put up fucking 2.1 PPG in juniors not 2 years ago on a bad team, no less? Every scouting report talked about elite skating, elite shooting, elite vision, all situations versatility, tenacity, no-quit attitude, can make defenders look foolish.....why hasn't some of this fully translated?

[Keirik]

Realistically, if you look at it cap wise, it’s better for the long term if Alf stays on a slower projection until his third contract somewhere after the 24/25 season. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

I have a lot of faith that Laf will only get better. He's at 89 career games right now, but for arguments sake lets go back to 82 games in.

 

in what would in a normal world be 1 NHL season, he had 18 career goals. I think regardless of who they were, if any rookie came in and scored 18 goals in his rookie year you'd feel pretty good about it. There are certainly holes in his game. I'd be interested to see the analytics of his defensive play as well. Yesterday he looked good at that end of the puck. Obviously we want more than solid defensive play from your #1 overall pick winger but it's a good building block, that Kakko also has been building off of.

 

On pace for about that same goal total over an 82 game season this year as well.

 

When he first came to camp with us in his rookie year, he hadn't played a real hockey game in 10 months, jumping right into a level way above what he'd ever been used to playing. It was always, despite our excitement, going to be an adjustment over time for him.

 

Lets look at this in a positive light. We can sign him cheap when his entry level deal is up for what will hopefully be the start of a long prime of his career 

 

 

[The Dude]

24 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Realistically, if you look at it cap wise, it’s better for the long term if Alf stays on a slower projection until his third contract somewhere after the 24/25 season. 

Why would you want mediocrity all those years? If he's mediocre or less until his 3rd contract the Rangers have wasted time and resources/ assets to get to that point and these players won't magically turn it around at that time either.  

[The Dude]

29 minutes ago, G1000 said:

 

Yep - that's true, and that's the more worrying thing for me. It bothers me that he gets third line minutes with Gauthier and Chytil, but I can draw the line if that were the only issue. I mind that when he has been asked to step in, it's not translated to the scoresheet.

 

What the hell happened to a guy who put up fucking 2.1 PPG in juniors not 2 years ago on a bad team, no less? Every scouting report talked about elite skating, elite shooting, elite vision, all situations versatility, tenacity, no-quit attitude, can make defenders look foolish.....why hasn't some of this fully translated?

Or partially.  Like ANY OF IT?

[Scott]

Everytime I see Jack Hughes on the ice it's impossible not to notice him. He's electric. He makes things happen and rarely if ever takes a single shift off. At times is he still careless with the puck absolutely but it's easy to see how skilled he is. I don't think anybody is taking about his 200 foot game as being his saving point nor the fact that he's playing with crap linemates. He's driving play regardless of who he's out there with at a position that I think most would agree with is significantly more difficult while also on  much shiittier team. His trajectory  is what I would of expected from both Load and Kakko. But instead we're settling in for nice 200 foot players. IF these guys don't step up and become big time players we won't reach that serious contender status. You can't wiff on 1 and 2OAs imo and get there. Especially if they end up being just jags.

Edited January 3, 2022 by jsrangers

[The Dude]

22 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Lets look at this in a positive light. We can sign him cheap when his entry level deal is up for what will hopefully be the start of a long prime of his career 

 

 

Like Jack Hughes  right?