GDT [RS] (#49) Rangers vs. Detroit Red Wings — Bongo Time

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

They've played a ton of sub par hockey outside the Florida game before the break.

 

The last 2 were a microcosm of all season. Be just as good (bad) in both games, win one lose one. 

If that were true, wouldn’t we be a .500 club? I keep hearing this narrative and I know Shesty is a big reason for our success but how is that any different than a dynamic offensive guy being the reason for our success?  We aren’t a win one lose one team. We are a win a bunch lose a little team. 31-13-5 7th most points in the league. 
 

 Get on board Peetie27, it’s a fun ride

Edited February 18, 2022 by Keirik

[Sod16]

Fox said "just one of those games."  He was pretty much right.  I'm sure we had a big advantage in high danger scoring chances.  It's troubling that Detroit gave us that much room in which to operate and we couldn't take advantage of it.  Bread and LaF were given loads of room on the dance floor.  They danced, but nothing became of it.

 

Strome doesn't finish well enough to play with Bread.  Bread would find a new love easily enough.  I'm starting to warm towards paying a dear price for JT and simultaneously dealing Strome to mitigate that price at bit.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Keirik said:

If that were true, wouldn’t we be a .500 club? I keep hearing this narrative and I know Shesty is a big reason for our success but how is that any different than a dynamic offensive guy being the reason for our success?  We aren’t a win one lose one team. We are a win a bunch lose a little team. 31-13-5 7th most points in the league. 
 

 Get on board Peetie27, it’s a fun ride

Yea remember when the stats got posted saying that if the Rangers got replacement level goaltending they'd have a similar record to the isles?

 

They are a average team with a good record because their goaltending is head and shoulders better than even the next best goalies. 

 

You keep hearing the "narrative" (weird way to refer to facts) because it's been the same story all year. Not really sure how you can be encouraged by the last handful of games other than Florida, but to each their own.

 

Yea the ride is fun, but it'll be short if something isn't done about the glaring issues.

[Cr00zng]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Yea remember when the stats got posted saying that if the Rangers got replacement level goaltending they'd have a similar record to the isles?

 

They are a average team with a good record because their goaltending is head and shoulders better than even the next best goalies. 

 

You keep hearing the "narrative" (weird way to refer to facts) because it's been the same story all year. Not really sure how you can be encouraged by the last handful of games other than Florida, but to each their own.

 

Yea the ride is fun, but it'll be short if something isn't done about the glaring issues.

 

Well, the Rangers have a replacement level goalie, Georgi, with a record of 7-7-2. Certainly, without Shesty in goal, they'd be still 3rd or 4th in the division, but this time from the bottom up.

 

I am not certain that, if the "glaring issues fixed" via trade will make the Rangers much better. Will the addition(s) change the style of play, that results in more shots on goal per game? Especially on 5v5...

 

It remains to be seen, but it is a fun ride so far...

 

 

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Yea remember when the stats got posted saying that if the Rangers got replacement level goaltending they'd have a similar record to the isles?

 

They are a average team with a good record because their goaltending is head and shoulders better than even the next best goalies. 

 

You keep hearing the "narrative" (weird way to refer to facts) because it's been the same story all year. Not really sure how you can be encouraged by the last handful of games other than Florida, but to each their own.

 

Yea the ride is fun, but it'll be short if something isn't done about the glaring issues.

Don't entirely agree, but still, lots of truth here. If you take Igor out of the equation, this team is probably at best struggling for the last wildcard spot. 

 

Getting almost nothing from the 3rd line. 

 

Strome the last few games looks and smells like money burning. Had he put the puck into the empty shootout net, would have been another occasion of putting lipstick on a  pig rather than dominance.

 

In fairness watching more other games; every team with the cap rules has weaknesses. Would like to think Drury sees the 5 on 5 play like last night and vs. the Canes and VGK and other contenders and knows he has to change the personnel. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Bugg

[Pete]

50 minutes ago, Cr00zng said:

 

Well, the Rangers have a replacement level goalie, Georgi, with a record of 7-7-2. Certainly, without Shesty in goal, they'd be still 3rd or 4th in the division, but this time from the bottom up.

 

I am not certain that, if the "glaring issues fixed" via trade will make the Rangers much better. Will the addition(s) change the style of play, that results in more shots on goal per game? Especially on 5v5...

 

It remains to be seen, but it is a fun ride so far...

 

 

Georgie wasn't replacement level until Shesterkin got hurt. Look at his game logs. 

[Ozzy]

Gotta give Greiss credit.  He was a big part of that that win for the Wings.  Of course we didn't help by passing the puck all over the place, not shooting, and then when we did, we missed some glaring opportunities....but that's correct, this is the Rangers and that's kinda what we do!!

........And here are the Top 10 nominees for last night's “Ozzy Quote of the GDT”, sponsored by O' Doul's...official beer of Greg McKegg!

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Keirik said:

Staal looks like gritty 

 

14 hours ago, jsrangers said:

I hate these 7:45 starts.

 

13 hours ago, josh said:

Lafreniere skating more than anyone else

 

that’s uh… idk, wish I could say a good thing, but… 

 

13 hours ago, josh said:

Think the rangers fans are playing wordle on the bench tablet? 

 

12 hours ago, Flynn said:

I don’t know why, but I get the vibe that Greg McKegg is the guy that shows up to a house party with a case of O’Douls. And is really fucking proud of himself. 

 

12 hours ago, josh said:

It’s a Pete-Play Goal! 

 

11 hours ago, siddious said:

Looks quicker too for some reason. 
 

no cheese burgers during the break I guess 

 

11 hours ago, Pistol Pete said:

YIKES!  Greiss was signing autographs in the corner on that one….Mika with the moves…

 

11 hours ago, Pete said:

Inb4 @josh wants Fox traded for "fumbling the puck". 

 

11 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Strome needs to go to the Lafreniere school of scoring on an empty net

 

The opening banter between Josh and Keith is pretty funny!  ….but the winning quote for tonight’s GDT goes to @Flynn Flynner, who made me pee a little with that one!!!

I took one of those O'Doul's while he wasn't looking!   

Looks like the word is out;  Stay out of the box against the Rangers and your team can win.  I think it's pretty clear that @Pete has made a good point on this one for weeks now. 

I'm confident about 2 things:

1. Changes will be made
2. A solid rebound win on Sunday

Edited February 18, 2022 by Ozzy

[Keirik]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

 

 

You keep hearing the "narrative" (weird way to refer to facts) because it's been the same story all year. Not really sure how you can be encouraged by the last handful of games other than Florida, but to each their own.

 

 

Nah,facts work like this. The Rangers are 31-13-5. Fact. Those games are played, those results are real. Narrative works like this. "Ill take our best player off the team and replace him with the statistics of someone else and now predict what our record will be" in some alternate reality. 

 

 I'm encouraged because we are making the playoffs this year after years of Quinning. I'm encouraged because the only way we can keep taking steps forward is by taking that next playoff step first. I'm encouraged because in reality, we are only a few players away from being up there with the best elite teams of the league. I don't see how anyone can not be encouraged to be in the position we are. Because we rely on our goalie? We aren't the only team that wouldn't be where we are without elite goaltending even if we are the highest example of it. 

[Ozzy]

17 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Nah,facts work like this. The Rangers are 31-13-5. Fact. Those games are played, those results are real. Narrative works like this. "Ill take our best player off the team and replace him with the statistics of someone else and now predict what our record will be" in some alternate reality. 

 

 I'm encouraged because we are making the playoffs this year after years of Quinning. I'm encouraged because the only way we can keep taking steps forward is by taking that next playoff step first. I'm encouraged because in reality, we are only a few players away from being up there with the best elite teams of the league. I don't see how anyone can not be encouraged to be in the position we are. Because we rely on our goalie? We aren't the only team that wouldn't be where we are without elite goaltending even if we are the highest example of it. 

 

I think we're on the same page, Big K...see if you agree.

 

-A top 6 RW that can score

-A veteran 3C that can win draws, PK and play a solid 5v5

-A reliable, tough, veteran depth defenseman

 

....That's what I think we need at the TDL 

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I think we're on the same page, Big K...see if you agree.

 

-A top 6 RW that can score

-A veteran 3C that can win draws, PK and play a solid 5v5

-A reliable, tough, veteran depth defenseman

 

....That's what I think we need at the TDL 

I’m on board with all of that. The d I’m less concerned about because we are going to have to start getting to know who we can rely on in terms of D. Our future cap now eh is going to be tied up mostly in the offense so we are going to really need a few cheap young reliable guys on the backend that don’t eat up cap space. 

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

I’m on board with all of that. The d I’m less concerned about because we are going to have to start getting to know who we can rely on in terms of D. Our future cap now eh is going to be tied up mostly in the offense so we are going to really need a few cheap young reliable guys on the backend that don’t eat up cap space. 

 

I'm pretty good with who we have back there on D now.  And this year would be the best season to have the kids give it a go back there to do exactly what you're saying.  Let's see who's who, and "what size grapefruits do you have?".

 

The 3C and scoring RW are a must...but I know you already know that!  LOL

 

Nice call on the Trivia last night....No laughing at me when I get it wrong though!! 

 

Oh and here:

 

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

 

I'm pretty good with who we have back there on D now.  And this year would be the best season to have the kids give it a go back there to do exactly what you're saying.  Let's see who's who, and "what size grapefruits do you have?".

 

The 3C and scoring RW are a must...but I know you already know that!  LOL

 

Nice call on the Trivia last night....No laughing at me when I get it wrong though!! 

 

Oh and here:

 

Lol it’s still a crime Gresch didn’t get his number raised. I wish we were getting Gourde but I haven’t read one rumor with his name so blah. 
 

zubov wasn’t a bad guess actually. I just remember him being a tad older than most rookies. 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

44 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Nah,facts work like this. The Rangers are 31-13-5. Fact. Those games are played, those results are real. Narrative works like this. "Ill take our best player off the team and replace him with the statistics of someone else and now predict what our record will be" in some alternate reality. 

 

 I'm encouraged because we are making the playoffs this year after years of Quinning. I'm encouraged because the only way we can keep taking steps forward is by taking that next playoff step first. I'm encouraged because in reality, we are only a few players away from being up there with the best elite teams of the league. I don't see how anyone can not be encouraged to be in the position we are. Because we rely on our goalie? We aren't the only team that wouldn't be where we are without elite goaltending even if we are the highest example of it. 

While I agree, there’s no denying this team needs help 5v5.  If they can’t score now, how are they are suppose to consistently score in the playoffs where the ice shrinks even more?  As for the defense, I’m fine going into battle with the 6 from the last couple of games honestly, maybe add a 7th defenseman because Hajek and Nameth are just not working.  Need to address the bottom 6 to round out the lineup.  Drury has some work ahead of him but we have the pieces to make move, let’s see what he does.  Definitely been a fun ride thus far though.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Vodka Drunkenski

[Keirik]

Just now, Vodka Drunkenski said:

While I agree there’s no denying this team needs help 5v5.  If they can’t score now, how are they are suppose to consistently score in the playoffs where the ice shrinks even more?  As for the defense, I’m fine going into battle with the 6 from the last couple of games honestly, maybe add a 7th defenseman because Hajek and Nameth are just not working.  Need to address the bottom 6 to round out the lineup.  Drury has some work ahead of him but we have the pieces to make move, let’s see what he does.  Definitely been a fun ride thus far though.

I’m not saying they don’t need a couple of pieces, but I’m not going to apologize that our best player is our goalie and has kept us in games long enough for timely goals. Especially considering having an elite goalie can take you pretty far in the playoffs. 
 

pretty much every year, the two teams that make it to the finals have a goalie with an above .920% 

[Bugg]

11 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

While I agree, there’s no denying this team needs help 5v5.  If they can’t score now, how are they are suppose to consistently score in the playoffs where the ice shrinks even more?  As for the defense, I’m fine going into battle with the 6 from the last couple of games honestly, maybe add a 7th defenseman because Hajek and Nameth are just not working.  Need to address the bottom 6 to round out the lineup.  Drury has some work ahead of him but we have the pieces to make move, let’s see what he does.  Definitely been a fun ride thus far though.

Based off the last few games, these 3 pairs look fine.

 

Problem is the forwards.  Suspect Strome barring some dramatic improvement has moved from a no brainer resigning to possible trade bait. And made a JT Miller or somebody like that being acquired very likely.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’m not saying they don’t need a couple of pieces, but I’m not going to apologize that our best player is our goalie and has kept us in games long enough for timely goals. Especially considering having an elite goalie can take you pretty far in the playoffs. 
 

pretty much every year, the two teams that make it to the finals have a goalie with an above .920% 

Totally agree, you can’t take the best player out of the equation just because he’s the goalie.  It just sucks that over the last 2 decades our elite player has been a goalie and not a forward. 

[Pete]

55 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Nah,facts work like this. The Rangers are 31-13-5. Fact. Those games are played, those results are real. Narrative works like this. "Ill take our best player off the team and replace him with the statistics of someone else and now predict what our record will be" in some alternate reality. 

 

 I'm encouraged because we are making the playoffs this year after years of Quinning. I'm encouraged because the only way we can keep taking steps forward is by taking that next playoff step first. I'm encouraged because in reality, we are only a few players away from being up there with the best elite teams of the league. I don't see how anyone can not be encouraged to be in the position we are. Because we rely on our goalie? We aren't the only team that wouldn't be where we are without elite goaltending even if we are the highest example of it. 

You say this like it's a good thing or somehow solidifies your point instead of mine LOL.

 

Honestly, I don't care about the record. Seriously, there's so much beyond that it's almost willful ignorance to gloss over it. I mean look at the last 2 games...Barely eeking out a win against the Bruins missing their best players and then losing to an even worse Detroit team. What did both games have in common? Not enough powerplays for the Rangers to score any goals, and points of each game where Igor was just ordinary.

 

Now what happens in the playoffs when most of the hockey is 5 on 5 and all the teams are going to be better than the Bruins and Red Wings?

 

You're arguing just to argue. We both agree that they're going to make the playoffs and we both agree that if nothing is done, they're headed for a quick exit. So what point are you trying to make? That they have a good record? OK, great. That record doesn't negate that they are bad 5v5 and need otherworldly goaltending to have a chance at winning...The difference is that when the playoffs start, their regular season record won't mean shit, but those issues will still be lingering unless they're addressed.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’m not saying they don’t need a couple of pieces, but I’m not going to apologize that our best player is our goalie and has kept us in games long enough for timely goals. Especially considering having an elite goalie can take you pretty far in the playoffs. 
 

pretty much every year, the two teams that make it to the finals have a goalie with an above .920% 

It's not apologizing, it's acknowledging that the issue isn't that their best player is a goalie, it's that he's a goalie who is not only head and shoulders above the next best goalies, but also needs to perform at his own highest level every single night for this team to have a chance at winning. He can't have a night off. He can't make a mistake.

 

All those other .920 goalies were supported by effective offensive teams, which this team is not unless they're on the powerplay.

[RichieNextel305]

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t be 100% opposed to the Rangers making a “quick fix” type of move that won’t cost an arm and a leg as far as prospects go (Reilly Smith? Maybe even Pavelski given his age and UFA status?) just to help the offense this playoff year, get the kids some experience of what the playoffs actually look like. And then come summer time, when more potential targets are available, unload some of our prospect capital for a big fix. 
 

That’s not me punting on this season in anyway. If the opportunity arises by 3/21 to make what Drury deems is the right move for the right guy at the right time, then by all mean. For all we know, this could be one of those special seasons. That being said, I firmly believe you need to learn how to walk before you can run. And it’s gonna take being humbled to get this team where we want it to be. I’m not saying to wait forever, but to think we’re gonna waltz in to the playoffs and win 16 games this season might be a bit short sighted. Impossible? No. But it’s hard to reach the top of that mountain.

[RJWantsTheCup]

What are the chances that either or both of Cuylle and Othmann play on the 3rd line next season?   I think a lot of what the Rangers do this trade deadline depends on if they think they will be ready next season.  
Still think Chytil, Reunanen  & a 2nd rounder for Toffoli would’ve been a good move but that ship has sailed.  

[Drew a Penalty]

4 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

What are the chances that either or both of Cuylle and Othmann play on the 3rd line next season?   I think a lot of what the Rangers do this trade deadline depends on if they think they will be ready next season.  
Still think Chytil, Reunanen  & a 2nd rounder for Toffoli would’ve been a good move but that ship has sailed.  

 

I'd imagine it'd be very unlikely to see two rookies on the third line. Barron would probably be of more use than Hunt/McKegg/Gauthier and he's only played 9 games. Maybe Cuylle makes the fourth line. Only way I see Othmann pushing for a spot is if Laf or Kakko fail to progress.

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

You say this like it's a good thing or somehow solidifies your point instead of mine LOL.

 

Honestly, I don't care about the record. Seriously, there's so much beyond that it's almost willful ignorance to gloss over it. I mean look at the last 2 games...Barely eeking out a win against the Bruins missing their best players and then losing to an even worse Detroit team. What did both games have in common? Not enough powerplays for the Rangers to score any goals, and points of each game where Igor was just ordinary.

 

Now what happens in the playoffs when most of the hockey is 5 on 5 and all the teams are going to be better than the Bruins and Red Wings?

 

You're arguing just to argue. We both agree that they're going to make the playoffs and we both agree that if nothing is done, they're headed for a quick exit. So what point are you trying to make? That they have a good record? OK, great. That record doesn't negate that they are bad 5v5 and need otherworldly goaltending to have a chance at winning...The difference is that when the playoffs start, their regular season record won't mean shit, but those issues will still be lingering unless they're addressed.

 

okay.you think I, being “willfully ignorant. “ very nice passive aggressive insult. 
 

  Here’s an article from oilers nation that contradicts whistles being put away. It’s from last year but it gets the point across. 

 

YEAR	PP/GP REG	PP/GP PLAYOFFS
2015	3.06	2.92
2016	3.11	3.27
2017	2.99	3.12
2018	3.04	3.23
2019	2.92	3.16
2020	2.97	3.51

    https://oilersnation.com/2021/05/13/playoff-preview-do-refs-put-whistles-away-in-nhl-playoffs/

 

also, most years, the team that wins the cup is right up there in the top 5 for playoff Powerplay %. Powerplays are a part of the postseason. 
20-21 winner 

tampa 3rd best pp% at 32.4

19-20 winner

tampa  5th best pp%  at 22.7

18-19 winner

Blues  12th pp% at 16.2 (this helps your point because obviously they are scoring 5 v 5 mostly)

17-18 winner

Caps 2 nd best pp% at 29.3

 

so 3 out of the last 4 cup winners had good powerplays in the playoffs

 

20/21 Tampa scored 75 goals in the playoffs with 22 being on the pp thus 29% of their goals were pp.

 

19/20 Tampa scored 77 goals in the playoffs with 17 being on the pp thus 22% of their goals were pp

 

18/19 Blues scored 75 goals in the playoffs with 13 being on the pp thus 17% of their goals were on the pp the exception to the rule

17/18 Caps scored 86 goals in the playoffs with 22 being on the pp thus 26% of their goals were on the pp

21/22 Rangers have scored 145 goals with 37 being on the pp thus 26% of their goals were on the pp.

  I think the trend in recent years is that power plays are still very much called in the postseason. More is let go for sure but teams are still getting power play chances and still relying on an average of 25% or so of their goals being on the pp 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Keirik

[Keirik]

46 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's not apologizing, it's acknowledging that the issue isn't that their best player is a goalie, it's that he's a goalie who is not only head and shoulders above the next best goalies, but also needs to perform at his own highest level every single night for this team to have a chance at winning. He can't have a night off. He can't make a mistake.

 

All those other .920 goalies were supported by effective offensive teams, which this team is not unless they're on the powerplay.

Sounds like Hank in 13/14

[RJWantsTheCup]

7 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

I'd imagine it'd be very unlikely to see two rookies on the third line. Barron would probably be of more use than Hunt/McKegg/Gauthier and he's only played 9 games. Maybe Cuylle makes the fourth line. Only way I see Othmann pushing for a spot is if Laf or Kakko fail to progress.

I could see Cuylle playing on the 4th line with Reaves and Rooney.  
Othamann, Goodrow and ? as a 3rd line.  That means Lafraniere and Kakko have to be top 6 wingers.  

[josh]

13 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

What are the chances that either or both of Cuylle and Othmann play on the 3rd line next season?   I think a lot of what the Rangers do this trade deadline depends on if they think they will be ready next season.  
Still think Chytil, Reunanen  & a 2nd rounder for Toffoli would’ve been a good move but that ship has sailed.  

Toffoli has multiple years left, you might as well send Othmann or Cuylle to Montreal in that proposal as they'd be behind him for the next few seasons.

 

I thought I mentioned in the Kravtsov thread, but can't find it, that I would almost rather see Othmann or Cuylle called up at the end of the season over Kravtsov, unless individual play changes drastically. Cuylle spent some time in Hartford, and Othmann the Swiss league last season, so the pro game wont be something new.  Issue being theyre both "left wings". Othmann should certainly switch to the right. Both slide contracts.

 

As far as next season, I dont think either should go back to the O (but I also detest Hartford) with them both being top 10 in goals, top 25 in points. Those ELC will be needed, too, with all the expected cap issues.