GDT [RS] (#57) Rangers at Minnesota Wild — Streaking Down the Road [Trip]

[Phil]

Because good ≠ great. They're a good team. They can be great with the right additions. Finding third-liners, depth defenders, and a back-up goalie isn't rocket science — it's literally the easiest thing to fix because you can buy your way out of your problems very July.

[Ozzy]

Hit the nail on the head, Chief! 

 

It's really apparent there's work to be done, and we're in a perfect spot cap-wise to make a few improvements. 

<---This guy's not worried....

[RJWantsTheCup]

Even with a better back up they probably lose the game, but the first goal he let up was garbage. 

Sometimes a goal like that will be a back breaker on a team.

And as nice as Zibs goal was it should've been a penalty on him, we would scream bloody murder if someone did that to Panarin while we were on the power play.

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, Phil said:

Because good ≠ great. They're a good team. They can be great with the right additions. Finding third-liners, depth defenders, and a back-up goalie isn't rocket science — it's literally the easiest thing to fix because you can buy your way out of your problems very July.

I don't want to get into the battle of adjectives. They are decidely middle of the pack in almost every statistic aside from PP. Everything else can be linked back to Igor. They win cuz of Igor, they have a great PK cuz...Igor...etc.

 

The numbers say the entirety of the team is average, with their goalie is having a historic season and their PP led by Kreider.

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Florida was pre-break on the second game of a B2B and they played their backup.

 

Boston (out of playoff picture at the time) was missing Bergeron and Marchand and they barely won.

 

Washington was sliding and still is. 

 

They lost to Detroit and Vancouver who aren't playoff teams. 

 

They got out shot in almost every game. 

 

A team as good as you think they are should be able to overcome a bad performance by a backup goalie every 2 weeks. 

 

But they're don't. Because they're not. 

 

They scored 2 goals off a team that just gave up 50 in their last 10.

 

No PP...no Igor...no chance to win.

 

Yeah no. They beat Boston  earlier in the year with all those guys. They beat Florida earlier in the year as well. They beat the defending Stanley cup champions. Now it doesn’t count if they beat Washington because they are sliding? Lol. Spin spin.  
 

7-3 before last night with 3 to 1 even strength to pp goals so obviously they can win without the pp every game. 
 

They lose games from time to time. So,e times to inferior teams *gasp* just like the rest of the NHL teams. Colorado just got s,lead by the Devils with a full lineup. It means absolutely nothing. You don’t individualize games to make a point by ignoring the rest of the results. 

you’ve been saying this 15 games into the season and weren’t correct. They can’t keep this up all season yet they continued.. 40 games in and they can’t keep this up yet they did. Now nearly 60 games into the season, can’t keep this up and they have. 
 

thankfully the Rangers lose so infrequently that you hide this for most games to say this 2-3 times every 10 games just in case they one day go 2-10 over a 10 game streak and you can parade in saying you knew it all along. Whatever helps ya not enjoy the year I guess.

 

their pp helps them win. Great?

they have the best goalie in the league that is a large reason they win. Great?

they have the 6th best winning % in the entire league with 70% of their season played. Smile a bit. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Yeah no. They beat Boston  earlier in the year with all those guys. They beat Florida earlier in the year as well. They beat the defending Stanley cup champions. Now it doesn’t count if they beat Washington because they are sliding? Lol. Spin spin.  
 

7-3 before last night with 3 to 1 even strength to pp goals so obviously they can win without the pp every game. 
 

They lose games from time to time. So,e times to inferior teams *gasp* just like the rest of the NHL teams. Colorado just got s,lead by the Devils with a full lineup. It means absolutely nothing. You don’t individualize games to make a point by ignoring the rest of the results. 

you’ve been saying this 15 games into the season and weren’t correct. They can’t keep this up all season yet they continued.. 40 games in and they can’t keep this up yet they did. Now nearly 60 games into the season, can’t keep this up and they have. 
 

thankfully the Rangers lose so infrequently that you hide this for most games to say this 2-3 times every 10 games just in case they one day go 2-10 over a 10 game streak and you can parade in saying you knew it all along. Whatever helps ya not enjoy the year I guess.

 

their pp helps them win. Great?

they have the best goalie in the league that is a large reason they win. Great?

they have the 6th best winning % in the entire league with 70% of their season played. Smile a bit. 

and lost to the yotes a well

 

I feel like its pretty routine in this league that, around the trade deadline, shitty teams start playing well as guys are either trying to play their way into a trade, or trying to play their way into keeping their NHL jobs. Can't win every game. Georgiev isn't good enough. Team had an off night around him too. Just is what it is. 

 

They play to their strengths. I'm fine with getting outshot when you know you have the ultimate goalie behind you. They make the most of their chances and don't force shots on goal for the sake of taking shots. They cash in on the PP when they're given chances. 

 

 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Yeah no. They beat Boston  earlier in the year with all those guys. They beat Florida earlier in the year as well. They beat the defending Stanley cup champions. Now it doesn’t count if they beat Washington because they are sliding? Lol. Spin spin.  
 

7-3 before last night with 3 to 1 even strength to pp goals so obviously they can win without the pp every game. 
 

They lose games from time to time. So,e times to inferior teams *gasp* just like the rest of the NHL teams. Colorado just got s,lead by the Devils with a full lineup. It means absolutely nothing. You don’t individualize games to make a point by ignoring the rest of the results. 

you’ve been saying this 15 games into the season and weren’t correct. They can’t keep this up all season yet they continued.. 40 games in and they can’t keep this up yet they did. Now nearly 60 games into the season, can’t keep this up and they have. 
 

thankfully the Rangers lose so infrequently that you hide this for most games to say this 2-3 times every 10 games just in case they one day go 2-10 over a 10 game streak and you can parade in saying you knew it all along. Whatever helps ya not enjoy the year I guess.

 

their pp helps them win. Great?

they have the best goalie in the league that is a large reason they win. Great?

they have the 6th best winning % in the entire league with 70% of their season played. Smile a bit. 

Yea, the also lost to Florida and Boston, big whoop.

 

You don't ignore what's going on on the ice because you get the result you wanted on the scoreboard.

 

For the bolded, you misspelled "is the only reason they even have  a chance to win most nights". You just keep repeating "Well Igor's good and he helps them what's the problem?"...Look deeper, dude. It's not that their best player is the goalie. It's that their best player's level of play needs to be light years better than the next best goalie for the team to have chance. That's like saying the Oilers need 80 goals and 180 points from McDavid next year or they're sunk...That the mark of a good team?

 

Your head is in the sand, but you wont be able to ignore it when the playoffs start. I hope Igor's play doesn't decline to the level of the other Vezina goalies.

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

and lost to the yotes a well

 

I feel like its pretty routine in this league that, around the trade deadline, shitty teams start playing well as guys are either trying to play their way into a trade, or trying to play their way into keeping their NHL jobs. Can't win every game. Georgiev isn't good enough. Team had an off night around him too. Just is what it is. 

 

They play to their strengths. I'm fine with getting outshot when you know you have the ultimate goalie behind you. They make the most of their chances and don't force shots on goal for the sake of taking shots. They cash in on the PP when they're given chances. 

 

 

I don’t think anyone is saying we are the elite of the league, but we certainly are doing something right when we are where we are. We have the cap room, to make upgrades, we have young talent, we have elite talent, etc. We will be fine. We even recently showed we can play and win with a playoff style atmosphere and game management. 
 

 Teams are going to beat teams in the NHL. 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

and lost to the yotes a well

 

I feel like its pretty routine in this league that, around the trade deadline, shitty teams start playing well as guys are either trying to play their way into a trade, or trying to play their way into keeping their NHL jobs. Can't win every game. Georgiev isn't good enough. Team had an off night around him too. Just is what it is. 

 

They play to their strengths. I'm fine with getting outshot when you know you have the ultimate goalie behind you. They make the most of their chances and don't force shots on goal for the sake of taking shots. They cash in on the PP when they're given chances. 

 

 

And while all this is true and OK for a January game vs CBJ...That shit doesn't fly in the post when there are no shitty teams to eek out wins against. Yea you rolled into BOS or FLA and beat them when they were injured or on the 2nd of back to backs...You think this team takes FLA in 7?

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't want to get into the battle of adjectives. They are decidely middle of the pack in almost every statistic aside from PP. Everything else can be linked back to Igor. They win cuz of Igor, they have a great PK cuz...Igor...etc.

 

The numbers say the entirety of the team is average, with their goalie is having a historic season and their PP led by Kreider.

 

Not the entirety — the middle. It's why I've been saying if you make a few trades to bring the red closer to zero, you've got a real punchers chance. They're still not quite "great," but they can absolutely improve their margins.

 

It's not a great strategy for a regular season when you need to get through 82 games to jockey for position, but in a sprint to win 16 games in the playoffs, I'll take my chances.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

well we're more than likely gonna end up playing Pittsburgh in the first round. I think we are as good if not better than Pitt. 

 

That also doesnt include any trade deadline upgrades and I can't imagine we arent making moves. 

 

Agreeing with Kierik's point. not saying we're elite. Not saying we're as good as Florida. Doesn't mean we're a bad team. 

 

But yeah, in a playoff series. Elite goaltending, good special teams and timely scoring gives you a pretty decent chance to win a series against anyone

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Not the entirety — the middle. It's why I've been saying if you make a few trades to bring the red closer to zero, you've got a real punchers chance. They're still not quite "great," but they can absolutely improve their margins.

 

It's not a great strategy for a regular season when you need to get through 82 games to jockey for position, but in a sprint to win 16 games in the playoffs, I'll take my chances.

I'd argue the opposite, if I understand what you're saying. I'd argue this team is successful because of the randomness of the regular season. Across 7 games, I've got very little faith.

[Keirik]

Just now, Pete said:

Yea, the also lost to Florida and Boston, big whoop.

 

You don't ignore what's going on on the ice because you get the result you wanted on the scoreboard.

 

For the bolded, you misspelled "is the only reason they even have  a chance to win most nights". You just keep repeating "Well Igor's good and he helps them what's the problem?"...Look deeper, dude. It's not that their best player is the goalie. It's that their best player's level of play needs to be light years better than the next best goalie for the team to have chance. That's like saying the Oilers need 80 goals and 180 points from McDavid next year or they're sunk...That the mark of a good team?

 

Your head is in the sand, but you wont be able to ignore it when the playoffs start. I hope Igor's play doesn't decline to the level of the other Vezina goalies.

Lol my head is in the sand? No. My head is watching the games. I can tell you to look deeper. You love taking a spin on every win we have when the bottom line is we WON. I also love how you like to say team X,y,or z had some issue then leave out how we lost Blais for the year early on when he was slotted to be in top 6. We lost Shesty for a while and could have taken a deep dive and spiraled which we didn’t. We lost Fox for a few games and still beat Florida (you know, that team you gave excuses for as being on a back to back right before the same break we had so it doesn’t count). We lost Chytil and Kakko for good chunks too and while they may not be exactly who we want them to be, they still are talented NHL players that I certainly like seeing out there more than McKegg and Polish or an elevated Hunt. 
 

 

Here’s a good one for ya. They aren’t winning the cup this year. Only one team can and they haven’t even been to the dance in a while. However, this is how a team is built to compete for one. They make the playoffs. They hopefully surprise a bit and they learn. They learn how to win and learn how shitty it is to lose. And along the way, while they learn,  they have the biggest baddest lights out wall in net making sure they have every possible chance to win. Everything else is BS. 3rd youngest team in the league with a 70% winning record and you’re telling me MY head is in the sand????

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Doesn't mean we're a bad team. 

Who said they were a bad team?

 

Average team with an elite goalie.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pete

[Keirik]

8 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

well we're more than likely gonna end up playing Pittsburgh in the first round. I think we are as good if not better than Pitt. 

 

That also doesnt include any trade deadline upgrades and I can't imagine we arent making moves. 

 

Agreeing with Kierik's point. not saying we're elite. Not saying we're as good as Florida. Doesn't mean we're a bad team. 

 

But yeah, in a playoff series. Elite goaltending, good special teams and timely scoring gives you a pretty decent chance to win a series against anyone

We are just your average 6th best winning % team thanks to our best players being our best players. 
 

as I said, I don’t believe we win a cup this year. I’d love it if we did of course, but you have to start somewhere. It’s time to take those steps and we are in grand fashion. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

For the record Boston, who you mentioned, also has a losing record against playoff teams this year

 

We haven't remained completely healthy and rested at all times for every game either. Every team has issues. You can still feel good about beating a good team even though they may have been missing guys or played the night before. 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Lol my head is in the sand? No. My head is watching the games. I can tell you to look deeper. You love taking a spin on every win we have when the bottom line is we WON. I also love how you like to say team X,y,or z had some issue then leave out how we lost Blais for the year early on when he was slotted to be in top 6. We lost Shesty for a while and could have taken a deep dive and spiraled which we didn’t. We lost Fox for a few games and still beat Florida (you know, that team you gave excuses for as being on a back to back right before the same break we had so it doesn’t count). We lost Chytil and Kakko for good chunks too and while they may not be exactly who we want them to be, they still are talented NHL players that I certainly like seeing out there more than McKegg and Polish or an elevated Hunt.

Oh wait...They lost Blais who everything thinks is a 4th liner, Kakko who sucks, Chytil who sucks ... Yea that's totally the same as when they played BOS without Marchand and Bergeron, and TB without Vazzy, Kuch, Sergachev and Cirelli. It's totally the same, my B!

 

Oh, and when they lost Shesty and Geo was a :checks notes: .935 goalie....And even with Geo at .935 they won 3 of 6 games Shesty was hurt for and their wins were by 1 goal over BUF, CHI and SJ. Their best effort was 6-2 over the other CHI game...That's not confidence inspiring.

 

Quote

 

Here’s a good one for ya. They aren’t winning the cup this year. Only one team can and they haven’t even been to the dance in a while. However, this is how a team is built to compete for one. They make the playoffs. They hopefully surprise a bit and they learn. They learn how to win and learn how shitty it is to lose. And along the way, while they learn,  they have the biggest baddest lights out wall in net making sure they have every possible chance to win. Everything else is BS. 3rd youngest team in the league with a 70% winning record and you’re telling me MY head is in the sand????

I agree with this. So why do you get bent out of shape when I say they are an average team with an elite goalie, when that's what they are?

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

For the record Boston, who you mentioned, also has a losing record against playoff teams this year

 

We haven't remained completely healthy and rested at all times for every game either. Every team has issues. You can still feel good about beating a good team even though they may have been missing guys or played the night before. 

I've never told anyone they can't feel good about anything. I've used these proof points to illustrate the team still has a lot of work to do before they will be competitive in the playoffs, because most 2 line teams who can't score at 5v5 don't fare well in the post. You need depth, depth gets you 5v5 goals and the Rangers have none of it.

 

The statistics for the team put them in the middle of the league. Middle=average. The PP and the goalie make the record look better than the actual roster.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pete

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, Keirik said:

We are just your average 6th best winning % team thanks to our best players being our best players. 
 

as I said, I don’t believe we win a cup this year. I’d love it if we did of course, but you have to start somewhere. It’s time to take those steps and we are in grand fashion. 

No, it's thanks to our player having a historic season, and if you replaced him with the next best goalie, the Rangers are a bubble team.

 

Surely you understand the difference.

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'd argue the opposite, if I understand what you're saying. I'd argue this team is successful because of the randomness of the regular season. Across 7 games, I've got very little faith.

 

Well, my position is contingent on them improving the margins. If they can stabilize a third line, even if it doesn't score a ton, and add a 2RW to alleviate some of the offensive pressure on the top line, I think they can absolutely ride Shesterkin as long as he'll allow them to in almost exactly the same way they did with Lundkvist for years. Specifically in 2014.

 

When they made that run to the Final, they were the 18th best GF/GP team (2.61), 15th best PP (18.2), 17th best GF 5v5 (143) all during the regular season. In the playoffs, they were 11th in GF/GP (2.56) and 11th on the PP (12.6). They were second in total ES goals scored (45), but that's largely because they and the Kings (1st) were the final two clubs.

 

Hot goaltending can take you far. You just need average scoring.

[Keirik]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Oh wait...They lost Blais who everything thinks is a 4th liner, Kakko who sucks, Chytil who sucks ... Yea that's totally the same as when they played BOS without Marchand and Bergeron, and TB without Vazzy, Kuch, Sergachev and Cirelli. It's totally the same, my B!

 

Oh, and when they lost Shesty and Geo was a :checks notes: .935 goalie....And even with Geo at .935 they won 3 of 6 games Shesty was hurt for and their wins were by 1 goal over BUF, CHI and SJ. Their best effort was 6-2 over the other CHI game...That's not confidence inspiring.

 

I agree with this. So why do you get bent out of shape when I say they are an average team with an elite goalie, when that's what they are?

I’ll try to help you understand. Nope, Chytil, Kakko, Blais are not comparable with those guys. But again we beat Boston earlier with them in the lineup. Here, I’ll show ya the box score.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202111260BOS.html

look, no pp goals! 
 

taking our guys out of the lineup though that normally would be regulars promotes other guys that have no business being in the lineup into regular roles. Kakko is a much bigger miss than we want to admit. The only good thing was that it forced an elevation of Alf to RW top 6 which is where I believe he remains.

 

 

     As for the last part. I take issue with this concept of us being an average team with an elite goalie because it’s absolutely wrong. Kreider is 3rd in the league in goals. Panarin is an elite player. Zibanejad is an elite two way player. Fox won a Norris. We like to give Alf shit but he’s coming around. Miller looks much better, Goodrow was a great pickup, Trouba looks great this year, I thought Kakko before injury looked better and better each game. Schneider is a keeper, Miller has been gaining confidence, etc.
 

theyre not average. They are a good team trending up. Two players on so away from elite but average is nuts to me. Just because today they need their best player to never have a night off doesn’t mean it’s going to be that way forever. 

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Well, my position is contingent on them improving the margins. If they can stabilize a third line, even if it doesn't score a ton, and add a 2RW to alleviate some of the offensive pressure on the top line, I think they can absolutely ride Shesterkin as long as he'll allow them to in almost exactly the same way they did with Lundkvist for years. Specifically in 2014.

 

When they made that run to the Final, they were the 18th best GF/GP team (2.61), 15th best PP (18.2), 17th best GF 5v5 (143) all during the regular season. In the playoffs, they were 11th in GF/GP (2.56) and 11th on the PP (12.6). They were second in total ES goals scored (45), but that's largely because they and the Kings (1st) were the final two clubs.

 

Hot goaltending can take you far. You just need average scoring.

That was 9 years ago, and that team was extremely deep. This one is not.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pete

[Keirik]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

No, it's thanks to our player having a historic season, and if you replaced him with the next best goalie, the Rangers are a bubble team.

 

Surely you understand the difference.

But the Rangers aren’t replacing their goalie so what does this even mean? And this historic goalie has put up these exact numbers everywhere he’s played. This isn’t a case of so,e career .899 guy one day thinking he’s Hasek for 6 weeks of his life. 

[AliveIn94]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

No, it's thanks to our player having a historic season, and if you replaced him with the next best goalie, the Rangers are a bubble team.

 

Surely you understand the difference.

I expect at most a second round exit. Not counting the consistent stars (Zib Bread Kreids Fox) Laf gained a step the past month and will continue to improve and Kakko has had time off to study and work, Miller has improved and Schneider looks like a vet already. Every team wants to win a Cup, but for the Rangers young players to reach milestones is very good too. Being a top 10 top 5 team most of the season is just icing. The pressure is definitely on next year if we pass the first round, though.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

That was 9 years ago, and that team was extremely deep. This one is not.

 

That's my point, though. It's not a perfect analogy because that team was incredibly deep, but the quality of their depth is what I'm after. The 2014 team had  guys like Fast, Moore, Boyle, Carcillo, Miller, and Pouliot in their bottom-six. Brassard was their third-line center. Most of these guys weren't big point-producers, but they neutralized the margins in ways that Gauthier, Chytil, Hunt, etc. simply can't.