Brooks Nils Lundkvist Won't Report to Camp; Traded to DAL for 2023 1st and 4th

[josh]

58 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

Your chances of a late first round pick becoming a significant NHL player are well under 50-50.

For example, take a look at the draft from 10 years ago.  Two of seven players drafted between 24 and 30 have had NHL careers of even minimal significance.  

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

Remove all of the Rangers draft picks from the equation and that percentage increases significantly.

[josh]

TSN posted an article showing the specific chances based on picks. This was years ago and it looks like its not up anymore.

 

I saved the old link in my profile

 

https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-expected-value-of-nhl-draft-picks-1.317819

 

 

 

OK, I found it the old fashioned way.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170816142522/http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-expected-value-of-nhl-draft-picks-1.317819

 

If that link doesnt work, google "wayback time machine" and type the first URL in the box.

[josh]

Nils at 28:

 

Quote

No. 28
Average Rating: 3.79
Best: Corey Perry, Justin Williams, Matt Niskanen
Worst: Brandy Semchuk, Adian Foster, Jonas Johansson, Nick Petrecki
Ranked 7 or better: 19.0%
Ranked 5 or worse: 61.9%
At least 100 NHL games (or extremely likely): 47.6%

 

Rating scale:

Quote

10 - Generational
9 - Elite Player
8 - First Line, Top Pair D
7 - Top Six Forward, Top Four D
6 - Top Nine Forward, Top Six D
5 - NHL Regular, 350+ NHL games 
4 - Fringe NHLer, 200+ NHL games
3 - Very Good Minor Leaguer, 50-200 NHL games
2 - Minor Leaguer, under 50 NHL games
1 - 10 or fewer NHL games

 

[Sod16]

It says a No. 28 pick has a less than 20 percent chance of becoming a top six forward or top four defenseman.  That's something to keep in mind if you are thinking or trying to build for the draft or trading players for picks.

[Phil]

 

https://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/nils-lundkvist-rangers-chris-drury-a34p2rdl

[Phil]

It's hard to put into words how bad this looks for Lundkvist. It essentially suggests he quit on the team after being assigned to Hartford and has basically been quiet quitting since. Now he's just not showing up for work at all.

[jsm7302]

35 minutes ago, Phil said:

It's hard to put into words how bad this looks for Lundkvist. It essentially suggests he quit on the team after being assigned to Hartford and has basically been quiet quitting since. Now he's just not showing up for work at all.

Taking a page out of Krav's book.

[Pete]

Like I said, bad agent.

 

It's no coincidence that all Lemiuex's clients think they are better than they are...Including his kid.

[ThirtyONE]

Lemieux is a jackass and this is a bad move for Lundkvist. Hopefully Drury doesn't move him. Just let him sit out the whole season, we don't need him. Who cares.

[Cash or Czech]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

It's hard to put into words how bad this looks for Lundkvist. It essentially suggests he quit on the team after being assigned to Hartford and has basically been quiet quitting since. Now he's just not showing up for work at all.

 

Quiet quitting infers he's getting his job done at least. Doesn't seem like he even did that much in Hartford. 

 

But yeah, Lemieux is a terrible agent. Jones is putting Lundkvist to shame, and there's probably more talent in the latter overall.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

[Sod16]

What a contrast to Hayak, who could rightfully be upset about being mothballed for a season at this stage in his career and who for the most part played well in his 17 games last year.  He's in camp.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

5 hours ago, ThirtyONE said:

Lemieux is a jackass and this is a bad move for Lundkvist. Hopefully Drury doesn't move him. Just let him sit out the whole season, we don't need him. Who cares.

Agree with the first part, he is a jackass.

 

but for Lundkvist personally, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, he's only got a limited time to become an impact player and maximize his career earnings. If he toils behind other defenseman in our system, due to maybe Gallant's preference of play style, or Drury's general thoughts on the player or what have you, he's gonna miss out on a lot of money.

 

I think he'd be much better suited getting traded to a team with not a lot of defensive depth where he has a chance to breakout. This is the reality of the current NHL. Younger players aren't gonna just sit and accept the shut up and wait your turn, when this much money is on the line. If he believes he can be an elite NHLer, he shouldn't pass up the opportunity to eventually sign a Charlie McAvoy/Adam Fox/Darnell Nurse type deal one day. He can sit and wait around as our 6th-7th defenseman and get paid like one, or he can get ahead of it find a situation that works now. We've had two higher profile cases of this now (kravstov seems to have worked itself out for the time being at least) but this will either be limited to just our organization (which is a problem) or will become the new trend in the league.

 

Cap will eventually go up big time. in 2-3 years we're gonna see a huge jump. Players want to be negotiating deals when that comes. And that negotiation looks a lot better for a player that's been able to be a consistent NHLer playing bigger minutes, which he frankly won't get here. If it's true he requested a trade after being sent down, it's disappointing for sure. But I can't say I blame the player.

[jsm7302]

Drury wants to keep him till trade deadline time for Kane.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Agree with the first part, he is a jackass.

 

but for Lundkvist personally, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, he's only got a limited time to become an impact player and maximize his career earnings. If he toils behind other defenseman in our system, due to maybe Gallant's preference of play style, or Drury's general thoughts on the player or what have you, he's gonna miss out on a lot of money.

 

I think he'd be much better suited getting traded to a team with not a lot of defensive depth where he has a chance to breakout. This is the reality of the current NHL. Younger players aren't gonna just sit and accept the shut up and wait your turn, when this much money is on the line. If he believes he can be an elite NHLer, he shouldn't pass up the opportunity to eventually sign a Charlie McAvoy/Adam Fox/Darnell Nurse type deal one day. He can sit and wait around as our 6th-7th defenseman and get paid like one, or he can get ahead of it find a situation that works now. We've had two higher profile cases of this now (kravstov seems to have worked itself out for the time being at least) but this will either be limited to just our organization (which is a problem) or will become the new trend in the league.

 

Cap will eventually go up big time. in 2-3 years we're gonna see a huge jump. Players want to be negotiating deals when that comes. And that negotiation looks a lot better for a player that's been able to be a consistent NHLer playing bigger minutes, which he frankly won't get here. If it's true he requested a trade after being sent down, it's disappointing for sure. But I can't say I blame the player.

 

I can, because he's doing more than just requesting a trade. He's refusing to report. I don't blame him for a second for the trade request. I blame him a fuck load for refusing to even show up until it's met.

 

Frankly, once a player has decided they want out, I don't care about their career, only their value to the organization (in a trade, clearly). Lundkvist and his agent are currently sinking that, while not moving off their original request to be traded. By refusing to report, they're making it harder, not easier, to trade him, despite it being entirely justified to ask out in the first place.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Agree with the first part, he is a jackass.

 

but for Lundkvist personally, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, he's only got a limited time to become an impact player and maximize his career earnings. If he toils behind other defenseman in our system, due to maybe Gallant's preference of play style, or Drury's general thoughts on the player or what have you, he's gonna miss out on a lot of money.

 

I think he'd be much better suited getting traded to a team with not a lot of defensive depth where he has a chance to breakout. This is the reality of the current NHL. Younger players aren't gonna just sit and accept the shut up and wait your turn, when this much money is on the line. If he believes he can be an elite NHLer, he shouldn't pass up the opportunity to eventually sign a Charlie McAvoy/Adam Fox/Darnell Nurse type deal one day. He can sit and wait around as our 6th-7th defenseman and get paid like one, or he can get ahead of it find a situation that works now. We've had two higher profile cases of this now (kravstov seems to have worked itself out for the time being at least) but this will either be limited to just our organization (which is a problem) or will become the new trend in the league.

 

Cap will eventually go up big time. in 2-3 years we're gonna see a huge jump. Players want to be negotiating deals when that comes. And that negotiation looks a lot better for a player that's been able to be a consistent NHLer playing bigger minutes, which he frankly won't get here. If it's true he requested a trade after being sent down, it's disappointing for sure. But I can't say I blame the player.

 

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I can, because he's doing more than just requesting a trade. He's refusing to report. I don't blame him for a second for the trade request. I blame him a fuck load for refusing to even show up until it's met.

 

Frankly, once a player has decided they want out, I don't care about their career, only their value to the organization (in a trade, clearly). Lundkvist and his agent are currently sinking that, while not moving off their original request to be traded. By refusing to report, they're making it harder, not easier, to trade him, despite it being entirely justified to ask out in the first place.

Yea not blaming the player is some soft millennial bullshit. The best way to get a new job is by being stellar at your old job. 

 

Fuck this kid the way fuck Kravtsov. Sack up and make yourself a player worthy of a call up or a trade. 

 

Otherwise you're a whiny bitch. 

[Phil]

You know who else should/might want out? Zac Jones. Especially if he's beaten out by Matthew Robertson, or a veteran waiver claim. You know who hasn't made a huge stink and taken his ball and gone home? Zac Jones.

 

Be like Zac Jones. Don't be like Nils Lundkvist, Lias Andersson, or Vitali Kravtsov.

 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

22 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I can, because he's doing more than just requesting a trade. He's refusing to report. I don't blame him for a second for the trade request. I blame him a fuck load for refusing to even show up until it's met.

 

Frankly, once a player has decided they want out, I don't care about their career, only their value to the organization (in a trade, clearly). Lundkvist and his agent are currently sinking that, while not moving off their original request to be traded. By refusing to report, they're making it harder, not easier, to trade him, despite it being entirely justified to ask out in the first place.

not saying WE should care about his career but obviously he does. If he wants out and he only becomes a fringe NHLer somewhere else than who gives a fuck. certainly not me. But I get why he'd want out. Don't like the way he does it (I said the same thing in the kravstov situation) but it is what it is.

 

Players that are still RFA eligible, especially ones this young, really don't have any leverage though, so they gotta do what they gotta do. Not happy about what he's doing but I'm just saying I don';t blame the guy.

 

If he believes his path to the NHL is blocked by our D depth/style of play the coach wants (Schneider seems way more like a Gallant guy than Lundkvist ever will) he can:

-Play out his ELC in the minors

          -Not Sign a QO/additional offer, which will sour a lot of GMs

          -Stick around the organization possibly not cracking a full-time spot until he has UFA                    rights, and by then he doesn't have a lot of time or opportunity to ever earn a big                        ticket. If he wants out, Drury has already shown us all that he's not going to rush to                     trade players looking to move on

-Try to maneuver a trade now while he still is seen as a prospect with a high ceiling, get an opportunity to prove himself and be up for a bigger payday earlier. 

 

Its not "soft millennial bullshit" to want to make many million more dollars lol

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by BlairBettsBlocksEverything

[The Dude]

59 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Drury wants to keep him till trade deadline time for Kane.

I'm thinking it's going to have to come to this. 

 

Could the Rangers trade Lundkvist to Chicago NOW for future considerations? Future considerations being a handshake deal for a deadline deal for Kane or Toews or anyone else..

 

They could set it up in tiers of value. If he reports to Chicago it becomes a future cash value. If he makes the team, it's more cash value.  If he plays well it's more cash value, and you go from there as a system of trade for the salary retention for Kane or Toews. 

 

Kinda like a down payment for the eventual sale of one of their players. Obviously there would have to be a little more going to Chicago. Or maybe not.  Lundkvist would probably get prime minutes.  If he clicks and lives up to the hype.....?

[josh]

Man, who could have seen this coming… 

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

not saying WE should care about his career but obviously he does. If he wants out and he only becomes a fringe NHLer somewhere else than who gives a fuck. certainly not me. But I get why he'd want out. Don't like the way he does it (I said the same thing in the kravstov situation) but it is what it is.

 

Players that are still RFA eligible, especially ones this young, really don't have any leverage though, so they gotta do what they gotta do. Not happy about what he's doing but I'm just saying I don';t blame the guy.

 

If he believes his path to the NHL is blocked by our D depth/style of play the coach wants (Schneider seems way more like a Gallant guy than Lundkvist ever will) he can:

-Play out his ELC in the minors

          -Not Sign a QO/additional offer, which will sour a lot of GMs

          -Stick around the organization possibly not cracking a full-time spot until he has UFA rights, and by then he                  doesn't have a lot of time or opportunity to ever earn a big ticket. If he wants out, Drury has already shown                us all that he's not going to rush to trade players looking to move on

-Try to maneuver a trade now while he still is seen as a prospect with a high ceiling, get an opportunity to prove himself and be up for a bigger payday earlier. 

 

Its not "soft millennial bullshit" to want to make many million more dollars lol

 

 

 

 

 

If he believes his path to the NHL is blocked by our D depth/style of play, he's right to, but his options aren't as limited as you suggest. He reportedly requested a trade after being sent down in January, so Drury has had some time to work a trade since. He presumably hasn't becuase he hasn't liked the returns, which is fair. Were I his agent, I'd have had a phone call with Drury to push for a deal, or I'd go public with our trade request. But I would never advise my client to sit out. That works against our goals. Instead, I'd tell Lundkivst to go to camp anyway, keep his head up, no comment any questions on a trade [request] and tell him to use camp and preseason as a staging ground to impress rival GMs into moving closer to Drury's price.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

not saying WE should care about his career but obviously he does. If he wants out and he only becomes a fringe NHLer somewhere else than who gives a fuck. certainly not me. But I get why he'd want out. Don't like the way he does it (I said the same thing in the kravstov situation) but it is what it is.

 

Players that are still RFA eligible, especially ones this young, really don't have any leverage though, so they gotta do what they gotta do. Not happy about what he's doing but I'm just saying I don';t blame the guy.

 

If he believes his path to the NHL is blocked by our D depth/style of play the coach wants (Schneider seems way more like a Gallant guy than Lundkvist ever will) he can:

-Play out his ELC in the minors

          -Not Sign a QO/additional offer, which will sour a lot of GMs

          -Stick around the organization possibly not cracking a full-time spot until he has UFA                    rights, and by then he doesn't have a lot of time or opportunity to ever earn a big                        ticket. If he wants out, Drury has already shown us all that he's not going to rush to                     trade players looking to move on

-Try to maneuver a trade now while he still is seen as a prospect with a high ceiling, get an opportunity to prove himself and be up for a bigger payday earlier. 

 

Its not "soft millennial bullshit" to want to make many million more dollars lol

 

 

 

 

It's soft millennial bullshit to feel like you're entitled to a spot instead of earning one. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's soft millennial bullshit to feel like you're entitled to a spot instead of earning one. 

But we all agree that realistically, that's not gonna happen here right?

 

He showed good things and is generally regarded as a good prospect with a high ceiling but there isn't much opportunity here. I also really don;t believe he's a Gallant type of player. Gallant is going to want to play Schneider Jones and probably Robertson ahead of him. Hell if we didn't trade Nemeth, he'd be behind him too. Not the craziest reach ever to say Tinordi would be considered for a call-up before him either.

 

Drury isn't (nor should he) consider the player's feelings when making a deal. He's fine to hold the asset until the right move comes along. Fine, totally understand that and agree with it. This is the best strategy for management. It's not the best for the player, hence his decision. 

 

Say you thought you deserved a promotion at work. If you got that promotion, you'd be in line for big pay raises and better benefits. But you got passed over by a few other people at work because your supervisor just likes them better for whatever reason. You wouldn't want to find a new job with better career growth potential? A lot of people would continue to just go to work and wait for a chance at a new job. Fine with that. A lot of other people, if they have the chance and can stomach it financially (Im sure Lundkvist can find a team in Europe that will have him), might just put their two-weeks in and figure it out.

 

Lundkvist doesn't owe the rangers any loyalty. The situation sucks. I wish he'd come to camp and try to earn a spot or showcase himself a bit. But I get wanting to try and force a move as quickly as possible and get a chance to go to camp somewhere else and earn it. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

But we all agree that realistically, that's not gonna happen here right?

 

He showed good things and is generally regarded as a good prospect with a high ceiling but there isn't much opportunity here. I also really don;t believe he's a Gallant type of player. Gallant is going to want to play Schneider Jones and probably Robertson ahead of him. Hell if we didn't trade Nemeth, he'd be behind him too. Not the craziest reach ever to say Tinordi would be considered for a call-up before him either.

 

Drury isn't (nor should he) consider the player's feelings when making a deal. He's fine to hold the asset until the right move comes along. Fine, totally understand that and agree with it. This is the best strategy for management. It's not the best for the player, hence his decision. 

 

Say you thought you deserved a promotion at work. If you got that promotion, you'd be in line for big pay raises and better benefits. But you got passed over by a few other people at work because your supervisor just likes them better for whatever reason. You wouldn't want to find a new job with better career growth potential? A lot of people would continue to just go to work and wait for a chance at a new job. Fine with that. A lot of other people, if they have the chance and can stomach it financially (Im sure Lundkvist can find a team in Europe that will have him), might just put their two-weeks in and figure it out.

 

Lundkvist doesn't owe the rangers any loyalty. The situation sucks. I wish he'd come to camp and try to earn a spot or showcase himself a bit. But I get wanting to try and force a move as quickly as possible and get a chance to go to camp somewhere else and earn it. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

Stop comparing sports to office jobs. It's not equitable. 

 

I also have 20 years experience in my role. So don't ask me "what if you got passed over at your first job out of school"... At 22 I'd shut the fuck up and work smarter and position myself. Hence... Millennial. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Pete

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

20 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

If he believes his path to the NHL is blocked by our D depth/style of play, he's right to, but his options aren't as limited as you suggest. He reportedly requested a trade after being sent down in January, so Drury has had some time to work a trade since. He presumably hasn't becuase he hasn't liked the returns, which is fair. Were I his agent, I'd have had a phone call with Drury to push for a deal, or I'd go public with our trade request. But I would never advise my client to sit out. That works against our goals. Instead, I'd tell Lundkivst to go to camp anyway, keep his head up, no comment any questions on a trade [request] and tell him to use camp and preseason as a staging ground to impress rival GMs into moving closer to Drury's price.

It is fair. But then it's also fair to say that he's waited for the move to be made, presumably with the hopes he could open this season with a new franchise, and Drury hasn't (and again, its not his job to) prioritized Nils' chance at an NHL roster. It would also imply that to start, he handled it exactly how most people here are saying he should have. Report to Hartford, not make a public scene, play hockey and wait for the call.  That hasn;t worked.