GDT [RS #14] Rangers vs. New York Islanders — Breaded or Fried?

[RichieNextel305]

My whole thing with putting the kid line back together is that we have now tried several times across a few seasons to get both Kakko and Lafreniere accustomed to playing on either the Zibanejad line or on the Panarin line. It’s been tried in every variation possible; Laffy up with Kreider and Mika, and Kakko up with Kreider and Mika. Laffy on the Panarin line, and Kakko on the Panarin line. I get it. It’s where, in theory, you would like to see them play. But I’m ready to just cut the cord and say move on from that idea.

 

The best and most comfortable they have looked was when they were playing with Chytil together. At this point, go back to that and let Kreider and Mika figure out who’s needed on their wing, and who Panarin and Trocheck need.

 

Maybe the answer is on the roster. Maybe it’s in the system. Maybe it’s a player on another team. We don’t know. But for now, I’d break it back down to basics: marry Zibanejad and Kreider again, because it’s inevitable. Marry Panarin to Trocheck. Let the Kids go with the kids. And wipe the slate clean and regroup.

[RuotsalainenFan]

Just now, RichieNextel305 said:

My whole thing with putting the kid line back together is that we have now tried several times across a few seasons to get both Kakko and Lafreniere accustomed to playing on either the Zibanejad line or on the Panarin line. It’s been tried in every variation possible; Laffy up with Kreider and Mika, and Kakko up with Kreider and Mika. Laffy on the Panarin line, and Kakko on the Panarin line. I get it. It’s where, in theory, you would like to see them play. But I’m ready to just cut the cord and say move on from that idea.

 

The best and most comfortable they have looked was when they were playing with Chytil together. At this point, go back to that and let Kreider and Mika figure out who’s needed on their wing, and who Panarin and Trocheck need.

 

Maybe the answer is on the roster. Maybe it’s in the system. Maybe it’s a player on another team. We don’t know. But for now, I’d break it back down to basics: marry Zibanejad and Kreider again, because it’s inevitable. Marry Panarin to Trocheck. Let the Kids go with the kids. And wipe the slate clean and regroup.

Worth a shot!

[Long live the King]

Panarin - Zib - Krav

Kid Line

CK - Trocheck - Vesey/Gaut

[The Dude]

19 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I think the effort level is the thing concerning me more than anything right now. Zibanejad looks like Covid Zibanejad. Kreider stepped it up a bit tonight but for the most part has not played well. And even tonight, that first Isles goal was on him being out worked for that puck on the rebound. Fox and Panarin are near the top of the elite at their positions. Their problems are that both defer way, way too much. 
 

The talent is in that locker room. We’ve seen it. But they are definitely in a very bad way here.

 

Losing Vatrano and Copp hurts. They were big pieces. I’d say Strome too, but Trocheck stepped in and has done well. We haven’t replaced Vatrano and Copps production.

There needs to be a discussion about Fox. Very very underwhelming since before the playoffs last season. He's not living up to that contract and doesn't look like a Norris candidate. Not even close. He went from next level- to pretty darn OK- to how much are they paying this guy? 

 

A big difference between this year and last, is that Fox isn't controlling the play, or being a game breaker. There's no push from him offensively. Last season that got them through covid Mika. This season, hes been pretty flat so far. A guy like that needs to step up in times like this. I question his effort a lot lately and that's not something I ever questioned him on in the last 2 seasons.  I dunno.  Is he hurt? 

 

The easiest one to point the finger at is Trouba. He's really been pretty bad (as has Miller), but Fox is the top guy on D. I haven't been impressed for a long while. You can call out the captain, but you also have to call out your TOP defender. He has to be better. He has to play like the 4th highest paid D man in the world.  

[RichieNextel305]

My thing with Fox is there is never any urgency. Sometimes being able to slow the game down makes sense and is brilliant. And honestly, his vision is beyond top notch. That being said, sometimes it’s almost like you’re watching the games and yelling at the guy that time is ticking off either the game clock or a PP or both. He shot a bit more than usual in the Isles game, which he needs to do.

[Pete]

Fox is a Norris winning defenseman. He shouldn't change his game at all. I'm pretty confident that he's doing whats right and others should adjust. 

[The Dude]

19 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Them getting off to slow starts, even in great years, is nothing new. The big thing for me is just how listless they look most of the time and the lazy, dumb hockey they've been playing.

The thing is, last year they started poorly,  but were gelling as a team. The "hard to play against " guys that were brought in were implementing their know how onto the team and it slowly adapted to the teams in game play.

 

They had each other's backs. They reacted to in game situations.  Maybe even set the tone a few times. Rooney, Hunt, Goodrow and Reaves and to a point, Blaisand Gauthier were injecting an energy into the team along with the top skill guys playing to their potential. They had some sort of balance.  

 

Right now, the bottom 6 brings absolutely zero energy (besides Gauthier). I'm sickened by seeing Vesey mosey on over to a scrum with his head down and and putting his hand on someone's shoulder. Its easy to see hes the ultimate non team guy. Look at the body language.  Look at his interactions with his teammates on the ice. Isn't that why they ditched him and Hayes (and Miller) years ago? Not good locker room guys?

 

Don't even get me started on Carpenter.  Holy fuck what a waste. 

 

Anyone miss Motte yet? 

 

They need someone to step up and inject some sort of energy into this team. I'm looking at you Sammy Blais. Time to step the fuck up. Stop being so pedestrian.  

[RichieNextel305]

28 minutes ago, Pete said:

Fox is a Norris winning defenseman. He shouldn't change his game at all. I'm pretty confident that he's doing whats right and others should adjust. 

No one is saying to change his game. But plenty of people, from fans to analysts, have said that our power play has become to predictably run through the Zibanejad one timer. And the reason for that, primarily, falls on Fox and Panarin, both of whom have to use their excellent shots more often.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

No one is saying to change his game. But plenty of people, from fans to analysts, have said that our power play has become to predictably run through the Zibanejad one timer. And the reason for that, primarily, falls on Fox and Panarin, both of whom have to use their excellent shots more often.

Fox doesn't have an excellent shot. That's the problem with analysts. There are some players you leave alone and let let them do their thing. That's Fox. 

 

Then there are some players who need more guidance. That's not Fox. 

 

[BrooksBurner]

I don’t see the issues being presented with Fox. If anyone expected him to win the Norris every year, the issue isn’t with Fox. It’s with the expectations. That doesn’t make him above criticism, but the complaints don’t resonate with me. A bad play here or there happens to the best players in world, especially ones playing 25 minutes a night against the other teams’ best players. To me he’s still playing like a top 5 defensemen.

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I don’t see the issues being presented with Fox. If anyone expected him to win the Norris every year, the issue isn’t with Fox. It’s with the expectations. That doesn’t make him above criticism, but the complaints don’t resonate with me. A bad play here or there happens to the best players in world, especially ones playing 25 minutes a night against the other teams’ best players. To me he’s still playing like a top 5 defensemen.

Word, you know you've come full circle as a Rangers fan when you've gone beyond complaining about crappy players and start complaining about your best ones. 

[Albatrosss]

44 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I don’t see the issues being presented with Fox. If anyone expected him to win the Norris every year, the issue isn’t with Fox. It’s with the expectations. That doesn’t make him above criticism, but the complaints don’t resonate with me. A bad play here or there happens to the best players in world, especially ones playing 25 minutes a night against the other teams’ best players. To me he’s still playing like a top 5 defensemen.

He better. He’s getting $9.5M per year. 

[RichieNextel305]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

Word, you know you've come full circle as a Rangers fan when you've gone beyond complaining about crappy players and start complaining about your best ones. 

I wouldn’t say I’m complaining. I’m just looking for them to be less predictable on the power play.

 

I understand there’s a myriad of issues in addition.

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

No one is saying to change his game. But plenty of people, from fans to analysts, have said that our power play has become to predictably run through the Zibanejad one timer. 

 

You can't expect permanent success with the objective being a single difficult to execute play, even when you are really good at it.  I get the feeling that if they tried something significantly different, the D would be flat footed.

[Long live the King]

24 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I wouldn’t say I’m complaining. I’m just looking for them to be less predictable on the power play.

 

I understand there’s a myriad of issues in addition.

 

The "predictable" complaint puzzles me.  His shot is lethal.  Top in PPG over the last 5 years.  We want him to shoot less?

 

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20222023&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppGoals&page=0&pageSize=50

 

PP is fine.  They'll heat up.

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

 

You can't expect permanent success with the objective being a single difficult to execute play, even when you are really good at it.  I get the feeling that if they tried something significantly different, the D would be flat footed.

 

Ovechkin disagrees.

[BrooksBurner]

51 minutes ago, Pete said:

Word, you know you've come full circle as a Rangers fan when you've gone beyond complaining about crappy players and start complaining about your best ones. 

 

Some boredom ripping on the same thing (depth, bottom 6) me thinks. If there was any semblance of secondary scoring on the team, we're not nitpicking about the one or two things Fox and Panarin don't excel at. Fans start to label the top players as failing when they don't score every night.

 

Lafreniere doesn't look bad. The talent is still in there, but the production disappeared. Kakko, credit to him for looking good and generating chances, is still not consistently producing at a level they need or that he should be at. Kravtsov, best thing I can say is he's fairly defensively responsible. 0 points. Chytil makes some things happen, but has missed half the games. The 4th line has next to zero chance of contributing anything positive. Taking Reaves out just makes it slightly less likely for the 4th line to get scored on.

 

The key to the season, other than how good would Igor be, was can the kids step up and produce. So far the answer is no.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Fox doesn't have an excellent shot. That's the problem with analysts. There are some players you leave alone and let let them do their thing. That's Fox. 

 

Then there are some players who need more guidance. That's not Fox. 

 

My take is, I don't think Fox is doing his thing. He's not carrying the puck and drawing attention. He's not deceptive and sneaky with the puck. He's not controlling the play. He's not slowing things down. He hasn't been all that special in his own end either. 

 

I'm mostly unhappy with his offensive play though. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Word, you know you've come full circle as a Rangers fan when you've gone beyond complaining about crappy players and start complaining about your best ones. 

We're complaining about Zibanejad and Kreider, why not Fox? Zibanejad has a shit ton of goals and we all rip on him. Fox isn't above criticism,  just like the other top players on the team. 

 

I'm not saying trade Fox. I'm saying,  dude has to step it up a notch offensively and really hasn't been anything special defensively. 

 

It's nothing damning. It's an observation. I want him more involved in running the offense than he has been so far. I feel like he isn't doing it as much, or as well as his previous 2 seasons (though the point totals to date are almost exactly the same as last year). 

 

All of the Dmen look pretty lost or uncomfortable out there. Hes no different. Last season, he was the most solid all around player on the roster. I'm not seeing it this year. Yet.

 

I have confidence that he can get back to that. Thats all I'm asking for. Be the most steady all around player. A rock. 

[RichieNextel305]

1 hour ago, Long live the King said:

 

The "predictable" complaint puzzles me.  His shot is lethal.  Top in PPG over the last 5 years.  We want him to shoot less?

 

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20222023&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppGoals&page=0&pageSize=50

 

PP is fine.  They'll heat up.

His shot is lethal. But it can’t be the only weapon we look to utilize on the PP. If not, more teams will do what the Islanders did with Clutterbuck that one night where they had him essentially shadow Mika on the PP, because Fox and Panarin weren’t going to put pucks on net from the outside.

 

Fox and Panarin are world class players. And Panarin, in particular, also a great shot. There needs to be some diversity on the PP. It’ll open Mika up for more shots.

[Long live the King]

11 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

His shot is lethal. But it can’t be the only weapon we look to utilize on the PP. If not, more teams will do what the Islanders did with Clutterbuck that one night where they had him essentially shadow Mika on the PP, because Fox and Panarin weren’t going to put pucks on net from the outside.

 

Fox and Panarin are world class players. And Panarin, in particular, also a great shot. There needs to be some diversity on the PP. It’ll open Mika up for more shots.

 

Last year Panarin had 5 PPG.  Fox had 0.  Strome had 5.

 

Trocheck already has 3 replacing Strome.  

 

Kreider just needs to find his touch, they don't need to make fundamental changes.

[RichieNextel305]

5 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Last year Panarin had 5 PPG.  Fox had 0.  Strome had 5.

 

Trocheck already has 3 replacing Strome.  

 

Kreider just needs to find his touch, they don't need to make fundamental changes.

Before last year, the PP wasn’t such a vast weapon for the Rangers. They were good, but the book wasn’t completely out like it is now about their success on the power play. The league is adjusting. To keep up, the Rangers need to also.

 

I’m not saying to tear the book over and start from scratch. All I’m saying is it wouldn’t kill anyone to have shots coming from other locations other than Mika. You want to get Kreider more involved? More pucks need to get to the net.

[cupalife]

Fox' issue has never been offensively.  He's just not very good in his own zone

[Long live the King]

24 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Before last year, the PP wasn’t such a vast weapon for the Rangers. They were good, but the book wasn’t completely out like it is now about their success on the power play. The league is adjusting. To keep up, the Rangers need to also.

 

I’m not saying to tear the book over and start from scratch. All I’m saying is it wouldn’t kill anyone to have shots coming from other locations other than Mika. You want to get Kreider more involved? More pucks need to get to the net.

 

They've been top 10 all those years except 1 (14th).  The difference last year was Kreider's conversion rate.

[Pete]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

We're complaining about Zibanejad and Kreider, why not Fox?

I don't know why anyone is complaining about Kreider or Zib, either.