How Can/Will the Rangers Keep Chytil?

[Albatrosss]

2 hours ago, Art20c said:

You are calling points per game leader in rangers history an albatross? Nicely done. In order to succeed in playoff you first gotta get there. Who will do that? Oth? Cuylle? Have anybody seen these guys playing at nhl level? Or it’s just a fantasy? Kinda the same caliber of as if laf somehow turns into mcdavid and kak into malkin.

i called contracts albatross, not the player.  ok?  thanks 

 

if your goal is an organization is to make playoffs, than yes, Panarin is your guy with an $11.6M caphit

[Albatrosss]

3 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

Panarin has a NMC for the entirety of his contract. Dude is going no where but Broadway. Kreider is gone after next year. We just need to get through this next off season.

i know, but that's whay i said to find a way.  Maybe shut down Brighton breach for few months and he'd want to leave?  or his favorite sauna with the hotties?

[Albatrosss]

2 hours ago, josh said:

Ok so it’s Reaves, Hunt, Blais, Goodrow, Trouba and maybe Kreider on the way out. 

 

again, guys, we did that. It didn’t work. That’s why they added Reaves, Blais and Goodrow in lieu of Buchnevich. 
 

Lafreniere isn’t muscle. Othmann isn’t MVP Corey Perry any time soon in the NHL. Cuylle is finally picking up his game in Hartford but can’t shoulder the responsibilities of the organizational overhaul of 2 offseasons ago. 

if Blais doesnt show anything significant by the of the season, i think he's gone.  He's worse than Hunt

[Art20c]

2 minutes ago, CCCP said:

i know, but that's whay i said to find a way.  Maybe shut down Brighton breach for few months and he'd want to leave?  or his favorite sauna with the hotties?

I don’t think closing sauna with hotties on Brighton will do the trick. He’s married now and they live in Connecticut 

[LindG1000]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

I'd call this fantasy, but they did name him captain, so it's moved a helluva lot closer to probable.

 

I just don't see another path.

 

I don't think the Rangers will get a return for Chytil worth considering, and I think after Buchnevich they'd hold out if it even got close. He'll arb in at 2 years 4.5 or whatever, and that's absolutely fantastic if he keeps this pace up. 

I think trading Kakko or Lafreniere is a pipe dream, also it's stupid, and also, same as Chytil re: return. 

I think moving Goodrow is neither desirable nor possible.

It's not remotely worth discussing Panarin or Zibanejad or Fox here. All three are immovable. 

 

We're left with Kreider or Trouba, and I simply do not think we'd ever get enough to move Kreider, nor should we. Say what you will about him but the stats don't lie - he's pacing 38 goals and 65 points and hasn't yet had his annual hot streak. He's probably the single best netfront asset in the NHL. He still skates like the wind, he still plays hard, and he's still one of the best HDCF generators in the league. Kreider's the guy you trade if the whole thing has gone tits up and you're blowing up the core because he's a legitimate league-wide auction. We aren't there. For me - the cap space alone simply isn't enough of a reason to move on from him. This would have to be a massive deal, which likely means it either mitigates the cap benefit or adds cap hit.

 

That leaves Trouba, and I'll preface it with this: it sucks we're here. You can see how angry he is at himself on a regular basis, and for a while there last season, we could see why he commanded that contract. We know why he's here. We know what matters to him. We know he's probably a damn good captain, and we know he's a damn good human. So yeah, it sucks, but it's the right move. 

 

And yes, he controls his own destiny - for now. But if the move is to SoCal - that's one place that still checks all his boxes. 

[Scott]

Is playing for the worst team in league one of his boxes? I kind of doubt it.

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

I think trading Kakko or Lafreniere is a pipe dream, also it's stupid, and also, same as Chytil re: return. 

 

Come on man. My suggestion is stupid?  From a mod? 

 

Anyway.... it's the only logical and the most likely scenario. Thet cant roll into next season with a LW stockpile of 

Kreider 

Panarin 

Lafrenière 

Othmann 

Cuyelle.

 

2 of the 5 would benefit and work well in a 3rd or 4th line role. 3 of the 5 would not be happy or productive in a 3rd or 4th line role for long. 2 of the 5 make too much money to be on the 3rd or 4th line........

1 of the 5 is a massive disappointment and should be moved in a situation that pushes them back into that legit cup contender window for the year, as well as gaining minor pieces  (which they need moving forward anyway) for the system or possibly for the bottom of the lineup for next season +  

 

There's nothing stupid about seeing what works here now and what can be replaced with a better fit for the foreseeable futures available spots Lafrenière is not a game breaker. There's no signs that it's there or brewing. Our 1 OA looks like he's topping out as a meh 3rd line winger. If teams are asking for him. It should be heavily thought about moving him while the value and luster of 1OA is still a selling point. 

 

I see no future here where Lafrenière works or is happy where he ultimately will land again. The bottom of the lineup. He's not good defensively. He's not a banger. He's not a pest. He's not going to PK. He won't carry a line. He's not a scorer. He's not a set up man. Where does this not particularly good at anything player fit on this roster? How isn't Othmann a flat out better fit for next year as a guy that brings pretty much everything I just pointed out that Lafrenière doesn't? All at an ELC cap hit and a better scenario for his future growth as the bigger contracts years start peeling away? 

 

I dunno man. Nothing stupid about what looks like a foregone conclusion. It either happens this season or in the summer. The question is:  Do you want Kane plus prospects along with another stab at the cup this season in exchangeforLafrenière? Or picks and prospects for Lafrenière a few weeks after the season ends?

[cupalife]

Doesn't seem so silly to discuss trading Panarin I guess.  The Rangers are a mediocre team with cap problems for the foreseeable future.  The kind of problems that could close their window before it even opens.  I don't think the Rangers named Trouba captain because they want to trade him.  He's having a bad year but when he's right, like last year, he's massively impactful.  He's as unique as anyone on the roster and would be very difficult to replace.  Just my opinion but I'm not moving a defenseman or a center to keep a logjam on the wing.  It's Kreider or Panarin.  Organizational depth and possible replacements from within don't exist for Trouba.  They do at wing.  In fact there are big time prospects including our #1 overall being blocked by Panarin and Kreider.  

[Keirik]

We don’t have cap problems. I’m not sure where this is coming from. We have a tad under 17m as it is in cap space next offseason. 
we need

1. a backup G

2. Resign an RFA Miller with no leverage

3. Halak? Ok so we need a new 6th D

4. Reup Chytil with arb rights

5. LaFreniere RFA

6. Kravtsov with arb rights

7. Gauthier with arb rights

8. Replace Blais/Vesey

 

lets ballpark things. If Chytil gets 5m on an arb deal, regardless of years, a backup goalie for 2m , laf at exactly what Kakko got at 2.1, Key gets 2.5m,  you’re talking about  a tad under 12m for those guys. That leaves 4-5m for a 6th d, 4th line fwd, and likely a Kravtsov replacement or arb offer that won’t be anywhere near high. gets tight where you find a Blais/Vesey guy but if the cap only goes up 1m as predicted, there will be plenty of value guys still out there. 
 

 

[Sod16]

I think you're basically on target, Keirik, but I think Chytil might get a little less than $5m in an arb deal, because as much as he looks impressive, his numbers won't be that big, and numbers drive those things.  Miller may get somewhat more than $2.5.  His overall performance has been well above Kakko and LaF.

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Keirik said:

We don’t have cap problems. I’m not sure where this is coming from. We have a tad under 17m as it is in cap space next offseason. 
we need

1. a backup G

2. Resign an RFA Miller with no leverage

3. Halak? Ok so we need a new 6th D

4. Reup Chytil with arb rights

5. LaFreniere RFA

6. Kravtsov with arb rights

7. Gauthier with arb rights

8. Replace Blais/Vesey

 

lets ballpark things. If Chytil gets 5m on an arb deal, regardless of years, a backup goalie for 2m , laf at exactly what Kakko got at 2.1, Key gets 2.5m,  you’re talking about  a tad under 12m for those guys. That leaves 4-5m for a 6th d, 4th line fwd, and likely a Kravtsov replacement or arb offer that won’t be anywhere near high. gets tight where you find a Blais/Vesey guy but if the cap only goes up 1m as predicted, there will be plenty of value guys still out there. 
 

 

Pretty accurate. 

 

And frankly it's getting kind of old that people don't look at cap and league mechanics before saying "trade that guy". Even saying "they should trade Trouba" is now involving retention discussions because teams can't afford big contracts. These 3 or 4 players for 1 player doesn't work, ever. If it works with the math, it doesn't work with the needs of both or either team. 

 

Panarin is immoveable. Full NMC, $11M a year, who can take that on? If we retain, where's this "cap relief"?

 

When you have a logjam, you don't make trading the best player at the position on your team (and one of the best in the league) your top priority. The idea here isn't to trade Panarin because he didn't have the best playoff, it's to add playoff caliber players around him.

 

In order, they should look to move Lafreniere (bust), Kreider (easier contract to move), and Trouba (but they won't because they love him for some reason).

 

You don't move productive players who live up to their deals. You move overpaid and/or underperforming ones. It's like the people who want to trade Fox because he's not the perfect player.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Pete

[jsm7302]

30 minutes ago, Pete said:

Pretty accurate. 

 

And frankly it's getting kind of old that people don't look at cap and league mechanics before saying "trade that guy". Even saying "they should trade Trouba" is now involving retention discussions because teams can't afford big contracts. These 3 or 4 players for 1 player doesn't work, ever. If it works with the math, it doesn't work with the needs of both or either team. 

 

Panarin is immoveable. Full NMC, $11M a year, who can take that on? If we retain, where's this "cap relief"?

 

When you have a logjam, you don't make trading the best player at the position on your team (and one of the best in the league) your top priority. The idea here isn't to trade Panarin because he didn't have the best playoff, it's to add playoff caliber players around him.

 

In order, they should look to move Lafreniere (bust), Kreider (easier contract to move), and Trouba (but they won't because they love him for some reason).

 

You don't move productive players who live up to their deals. You move overpaid and/or underperforming ones. It's like the people who want to trade Fox because he's not the perfect player.

 

Nailed it. Laf is a good third liner; as long as he is cost controlled, I'm good with keeping him. Othmann has a direct path to 2nd/3rd line LW in two years and Kreider has a direct path out of NYC when his contract status opens up. This seems clear as day.

[LindG1000]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

Come on man. My suggestion is stupid?  From a mod? 

 

Anyway.... it's the only logical and the most likely scenario. Thet cant roll into next season with a LW stockpile of 

Kreider 

Panarin 

Lafrenière 

Othmann 

Cuyelle.

 

2 of the 5 would benefit and work well in a 3rd or 4th line role. 3 of the 5 would not be happy or productive in a 3rd or 4th line role for long. 2 of the 5 make too much money to be on the 3rd or 4th line........

1 of the 5 is a massive disappointment and should be moved in a situation that pushes them back into that legit cup contender window for the year, as well as gaining minor pieces  (which they need moving forward anyway) for the system or possibly for the bottom of the lineup for next season +  

 

There's nothing stupid about seeing what works here now and what can be replaced with a better fit for the foreseeable futures available spots Lafrenière is not a game breaker. There's no signs that it's there or brewing. Our 1 OA looks like he's topping out as a meh 3rd line winger. If teams are asking for him. It should be heavily thought about moving him while the value and luster of 1OA is still a selling point. 

 

I see no future here where Lafrenière works or is happy where he ultimately will land again. The bottom of the lineup. He's not good defensively. He's not a banger. He's not a pest. He's not going to PK. He won't carry a line. He's not a scorer. He's not a set up man. Where does this not particularly good at anything player fit on this roster? How isn't Othmann a flat out better fit for next year as a guy that brings pretty much everything I just pointed out that Lafrenière doesn't? All at an ELC cap hit and a better scenario for his future growth as the bigger contracts years start peeling away? 

 

I dunno man. Nothing stupid about what looks like a foregone conclusion. It either happens this season or in the summer. The question is:  Do you want Kane plus prospects along with another stab at the cup this season in exchangeforLafrenière? Or picks and prospects for Lafrenière a few weeks after the season ends?

 

I'm not taking that at face value, because trading Lafreniere is a fool's errand. He's on an ELC. Moving him doesn't fix the cap crunch because he's simply not going to get too big a contract. He's still wildly talented as is evident when he's given ice time. There's nothing you can do - short of something crazy like Anaheim calling up and offering Conor Bedard - that actually makes trading him valuable to the franchise. To him? Yeah, possibly. But to the team? Nope.

 

The rest of this can be easily solved. Othmann's not a guarantee to make next years' team and neither is Cuylle, but assume they both make it. I don't think for a second that Cuylle or Kreider's games are meaningfully changed, nor do you lose value on them if they're right wings instead of left wings. 

 

It's far from a foregone conclusion, but it is awful asset management to move Lafreniere. 

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

I have no idea how you guys dare to put Cuylle/Othmann in as a lock for a top 6/9 role after what we've been through with Lafreniere, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Andersson...

 

These kids needs time. Cuylle should probably stay in the AHL to 2024 and Othmann should also start in the A next season.

[Cash or Czech]

Feel like Othmann is going to have a very JT Miller-like trajectory. Slow start, some time in the AHL, and just as he hits his stride we'll include him as a throw in for our next rebuild to acquire...Libor Hajek 2.0. Then he'll put up first line numbers.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Cash or Czech

[Ozzy]

I think the timing on bringing these kids in is important.  I'm thinking that we shouldn't be burning their ELC years while they're up here sitting the bench or playing behind someone that's blocking their way.

 

Let's face it, we've made some mistakes with Yukon and Kakko...Chytil too.  I wouldn't waste these 2 promising kids being hasty.

 

It's really hard to be patient because I now see the window is now open for us to make a run at a Cup.  But maybe it is best to cool my jets and let these kids get their shit together in the AHL.   Then come up properly, with experience, and also ready for the task at hand.

[Pete]

51 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

He's still wildly talented as is evident when he's given ice time.

[Flynn]

I still don't get the rush to get Kreider out of here. He's not blocking anyone better and there is no one to fill his functional role. 

 

Scored 52 with 10 more in the playoffs last year.

He's on pace for around 40 this year. 

 

He's actually a bargain on his extension.. It will probably age poorly, but he's delivering the goods and then some on a 6.5aav deal.  

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I have no idea how you guys dare to put Cuylle/Othmann in as a lock for a top 6/9 role after what we've been through with Lafreniere, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Andersson...

 

These kids needs time. Cuylle should probably stay in the AHL to 2024 and Othmann should also start in the A next season.

Have any of the above had a scoring proclivity like Othmann at his current level?

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

19 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Have any of the above had a scoring proclivity like Othmann at his current level?

Yes, both Kakko and Lafreniere. Lafreniere I guess was seen as more of a playmaker, but he was still a consensus #1. "Everyone" thought he would score 50 points in his first NHL season.

 

Kakko had 22 goals in 45 games (4 in 5 playoff games) in Liiga pre-draft.

 

It's not like Othmann is tearing up the OHL. 2 goals in 10 games for his new club, 13 in 26 in total. Pacing 32 in 64 (had 50 in 65 last season).

[jsm7302]

3 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yes, both Kakko and Lafreniere. Lafreniere I guess was seen as more of a playmaker, but he was still a consensus #1. "Everyone" thought he would score 50 points in his first NHL season.

 

Kakko had 22 goals in 45 games (4 in 5 playoff games) in Liiga pre-draft.

 

It's not like Othmann is tearing up the OHL. 2 goals in 10 games for his new club, 13 in 26 in total. Pacing 32 in 64 (had 50 in 65 last season).

Deflated my balloon.....

 

Well, fingers crossed.haha

[Long live the King]

19 hours ago, josh said:

Ok so it’s Reaves, Hunt, Blais, Goodrow, Trouba and maybe Kreider on the way out. 

 

again, guys, we did that. It didn’t work. That’s why they added Reaves, Blais and Goodrow in lieu of Buchnevich. 
 

Lafreniere isn’t muscle. Othmann isn’t MVP Corey Perry any time soon in the NHL. Cuylle is finally picking up his game in Hartford but can’t shoulder the responsibilities of the organizational overhaul of 2 offseasons ago. 

 

What do you mean by muscle?  Blais has 1 NHL fight.  Goodrow fights, but no one is scared to fight him.  They don't need muscle, they just need to stick up for each other.

[LindG1000]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Look, the guy had 19 even-strength goals last season with both limited ice time and questionable linemates for a solid chunk of the year. There's something good underneath the rosy cheeks and gnome-like facial hair.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

Look, the guy had 19 even-strength goals last season with both limited ice time and questionable linemates for a solid chunk of the year. There's something good underneath the rosy cheeks and gnome-like facial hair.

Go look at the goals. He had an incredible amount of puck luck. What's he done this year? Projected 34 points.

 

And forget the numbers. Where do you see the supreme talent?

 

Skating? Nope. No speed and just a decent skater in general.

Shooting? Nope. Doesn't have a snipe.

Passing? Nope, average creativity and vision.

Hands? 1:1 skills? Nope. He ain't turning anyone inside out.

 

@Dunny had it right. Just an early bloomer and an overager.

[josh]