How Can/Will the Rangers Keep Chytil?

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's some wisdom here for sure, but at the same time... Every team has different dynamics. For example Anaheim can afford to be more patient than the Rangers can. 

 

You just can't make blanket statements like that. 

 

However, Drury and many of us were wrong to think that his playoff performance was a flash in the pan, so they went and signed Trocheck to a fairly bad contract instead of just giving the job to cheat codes. 

 

That's gonna fuck them later. 

 

It'll be fine if they can buy enough time for the cap to skyrocket. Trocheck's contract will be closer to great 3C money than good 2C money after the market adjusts to a higher cap.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

It'll be fine if they can buy enough time for the cap to skyrocket. Trocheck's contract will be closer to great 3C money than good 2C money after the market adjusts to a higher cap.

That could be true but I've seen what happens to 5-10, 180# players and in 2-3 years I would not be shocked to see him topping out at 35-40 point seasons and at that point why not just give that role to a developing player?

[Long live the King]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's some wisdom here for sure, but at the same time... Every team has different dynamics. For example Anaheim can afford to be more patient than the Rangers can. 

 

You just can't make blanket statements like that. 

 

However, Drury and many of us were wrong to think that his playoff performance was a flash in the pan, so they went and signed Trocheck to a fairly bad contract instead of just giving the job to cheat codes. 

 

That's gonna fuck them later. 

 

I don't think Tro is a mistake at all.  He's on pace for 25 goals and 60 points.  Center depth is king.  If they can sign Chytil to a 5x5 they're paying about $19 mil for top 3 centers.  Toronto pays $22.5 for 2.  Tampa will be at $24 for 3 after Cirelli's extension. They be in good shape.  Just gotta make it through until the cap goes up.

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

I don't think Tro is a mistake at all.  He's on pace for 25 goals and 60 points.  Center depth is king.  If they can sign Chytil to a 5x5 they're paying about $19 mil for top 3 centers.  Toronto pays $22.5 for 2.  Tampa will be at $24 for 3 after Cirelli's extension. They be in good shape.  Just gotta make it through until the cap goes up.

Strome is not that far off Trocheck while playing with far lesser players, for half a million less for 2 fewer years and no trade clauses. 

 

The PP isn't better, the PK isn't better, the team isn't better. 

 

I had high hopes for Tro. He's not the best fit. 

 

It's a worrisome contract. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

That could be true but I've seen what happens to 5-10, 180# players and in 2-3 years I would not be shocked to see him topping out at 35-40 point seasons and at that point why not just give that role to a developing player?

 

I almost expect that to happen. I think a little more runway than 2-3 years though. At that point how overpaid would he be as a veteran 40 pt 3C? $1M? 1.5M? Not awful. And even less a % of an increased cap.

Edited December 18, 2022 by rmc51

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

I almost expect that to happen. I think a little more runway than 2-3 years though. At that point how overpaid would he be as a veteran 40 pt 3C? $1M? 1.5M? Not awful. And even less a % of an increased cap.

Still taking a roster spot.  

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Still taking a roster spot.  

Maybe. Maybe not. Modified NTC after only two more seasons after this one.

[Long live the King]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

Strome is not that far off Trocheck while playing with far lesser players, for half a million less for 2 fewer years and no trade clauses. 

 

The PP isn't better, the PK isn't better, the team isn't better. 

 

I had high hopes for Tro. He's not the best fit. 

 

It's a worrisome contract. 

 

The special teams % difference is negligible.  Tro is over 56% on draws, Strome is under 44%.  And I'm liking this CK-Tro-Vesey line.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

The special teams % difference is negligible.  Tro is over 56% on draws, Strome is under 44%.  And I'm liking this CK-Tro-Vesey line.

Yes, it's negligible... So we can stop saying "Tro is a clear upgrade over Strome." Untrue. 

 

Everyone parrots face-offs but that's not why the Rangers lose games. It's a nice to have. It's important but not game changing. 

 

I like the line too but it's the third line. They didn't pay him to play on the third line. And now they'll have to pay Chytil. 

 

Not a smart contract in hindsight. They didn't need him. He's a nice to have, too. 

 

If they HAD to sign someone I'd take similar production for less money and years and no trade clauses. It's really an easy choice. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

PP stats

Trocheck in 32 games this season:

 

6g, 5a, 11 pts

 

Strome in 74 games last season:

 

5g, 9a, 14 pts

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by rmc51

[Long live the King]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes, it's negligible... So we can stop saying "Tro is a clear upgrade over Strome." Untrue. 

 

Everyone parrots face-offs but that's not why the Rangers lose games. It's a nice to have. It's important but not game changing. 

 

I like the line too but it's the third line. They didn't pay him to play on the third line. And now they'll have to pay Chytil. 

 

Not a smart contract in hindsight. They didn't need him. He's a nice to have, too. 

 

I never said anything about Strome though, or who may be better. You brought him up.  All I said was I'd like the center depth of Zib-Chytil-Tro for the next 5 years.  Because that's who's here currently.

 

You say all them time how the team had all the same issues last year and they masked it with elite goaltending.  So if Strome was still here, what difference does that make in the win column? 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

I never said anything about Strome though, or who may be better. You brought him up. 

OK. So?

Quote

All I said was I'd like the center depth of Zib-Chytil-Tro for the next 5 years.  Because that's who's here currently.

OK. So?

Quote

 

You say all them time how the team had all the same issues last year and they masked it with elite goaltending.  So if Strome was still here, what difference does that make in the win column? 

What difference does it make with Tro? None. But we're paying more, for longer, with restrictions on getting out of it.

 

Like I said, easy choice.

 

To be clear, hindsight says don't sign either player and roll with Chytil at 2C. So let's stop blowing Trocheck like he's the second coming. He ain't.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Pete

[Valriera]

I started a thread on this a while back but popping in to remind that trochek’s real value is not that he is actually any better or worse than strome. Stat-wise, they’re comparable. He’s just a very different player than strome and the rest of the roster, and the diversity is important both now and in the playoffs. Time will tell how important.

 

the only area better is face offs in exchange for powerplay being a bit worse. Which is fine for me

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Valriera said:

I started a thread on this a while back but popping in to remind that trochek’s real value is not that he is actually any better or worse than strome. Stat-wise, they’re comparable. He’s just a very different player than strome and the rest of the roster, and the diversity is important both now and in the playoffs. Time will tell how important.

 

the only area better is face offs in exchange for powerplay being a bit worse. Which is fine for me

The on ice product disagrees. Still bad at 5v5, still a mainly perimeter team, and no one is worried about a 5-10 180#  player hitting them.

 

Like I said, I had high hopes. So far, not impressed.

[Long live the King]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

OK. So?

OK. So?

What difference does it make with Tro? None. But we're paying more, for longer, with restrictions on getting out of it.

 

Like I said, easy choice.

 

To be clear, hindsight says don't sign either player and roll with Chytil at 2C. So let's stop blowing Trocheck like he's the second coming. He ain't.

 

So liking our center depth and being on board with spending under $20 mil to lock in our 3 current centers is blowing Trocheck?  Ok then.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Long live the King said:

 

So liking our center depth and being on board with spending under $20 mil to lock in our 3 current centers is blowing Trocheck?  Ok then.

Well, I didn't say that, but if that's how you took it, cool. That's also a narrow way to look at it, but also--cool.

[RangersIn7]

56 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes, it's negligible... So we can stop saying "Tro is a clear upgrade over Strome." Untrue. 

 

Everyone parrots face-offs but that's not why the Rangers lose games. It's a nice to have. It's important but not game changing. 

 

I like the line too but it's the third line. They didn't pay him to play on the third line. And now they'll have to pay Chytil. 

 

Not a smart contract in hindsight. They didn't need him. He's a nice to have, too. 

 

If they HAD to sign someone I'd take similar production for less money and years and no trade clauses. It's really an easy choice. 

Disagree that he isn’t a clear upgrade.

His offensive game is equal to or better than Strome’s. He’s significantly better defensively and in the circle. And he kills penalties. Plus… late in the game with a lead, Trochek is out there. Strome is sipping Gatorade on the bench. 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Disagree that he isn’t a clear upgrade.

His offensive game is equal to or better than Strome’s. He’s significantly better defensively and in the circle. And he kills penalties. Plus… late in the game with a lead, Trochek is out there. Strome is sipping Gatorade on the bench. 

That's actually inaccurate. Strome was a late game staple and also PK'd a good amount as a Ranger, even if he was re

replaced later on, was out 4:4, etc.

 

I know it's popular to shit on him, especially because he didn't convert a shitty pass while he could barely skate gutting out a playoff game, but let's not engage in fabrication and revisionist history.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

That's actually inaccurate. Strome was a late game staple and also PK'd a good amount as a Ranger, even if he was re

replaced later on, was out 4:4, etc.

 

I know it's popular to shit on him, especially because he didn't convert a shitty pass while he could barely skate gutting out a playoff game, but let's not engage in fabrication and revisionist history.

I’m not shitting on him. And certainly not for that.

I liked Strome and would’ve been fine with them keeping him. Just think Trochek is a better player. 
 

As for him being a late game staple… yeah, sure. He was out there. But out of necessity. Not because of anyone’s burning desire to put him out there in those spots. 

[josh]

Still don’t think Zibanejad-Trocheck-Chytil is “tough to play against”, especially during playoff hockey. 

[Long live the King]

43 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well, I didn't say that, but if that's how you took it, cool. That's also a narrow way to look at it, but also--cool.

 

And I didn't say anything about Strome or which one is better so here we are.

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’m not shitting on him. And certainly not for that.

I liked Strome and would’ve been fine with them keeping him. Just think Trochek is a better player. 
 

As for him being a late game staple… yeah, sure. He was out there. But out of necessity. Not because of anyone’s burning desire to put him out there in those spots. 

The bolded is certainly an assumption that one can make, devoid of actual proof.

 

The rest, I'm with you. I didn't mind signing Tro over Stro. But the stats don't bear out that investment being a wise one. Not even about "they should have signed Stro", they shouldn't have signed either.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Long live the King said:

 

And I didn't say anything about Strome or which one is better so here we are.

that's immaterial, but OK.

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

that's immaterial, but OK.

 

Strome is immaterial to this thread.  

 

Q:  How Can/Will the Rangers Keep Chytil? 

A:  They can and should because spending ~$19 million on your top 3 centers is a good deal.

[josh]

2 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Strome is immaterial to this thread.  

 

Q:  How Can/Will the Rangers Keep Chytil? 

A:  They can and should because spending ~$19 million on your top 3 centers is a good deal.

If you’re winning shit