Rangers in the Trade Market for Physical LD; Joel Edmundson a Target?

[Phil]

25 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

Oh, they totally could. 3.5M with double retention is 875K. For Edmundson, that's robbery.

 

I didn't say double, I said with retention. Double requires paying two teams, so it's pretty compounded. I don't know how much of an appetite I'd have to pay like a 2nd rounder to MTL for 50% + Edmundson, then what, another 3rd + to Arizona to eat an additional 50%? Feels like a lot for a third-pairing defenseman simply because your team is so cap-pressed. I'd sooner just pay the 2nd for Gavrikov and call it a day.

[LindG1000]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I didn't say double, I said with retention. Double requires paying two teams, so it's pretty compounded. I don't know how much of an appetite I'd have to pay like a 2nd rounder to MTL for 50% + Edmundson, then what, another 3rd + to Arizona to eat an additional 50%? Feels like a lot for a third-pairing defenseman simply because your team is so cap-pressed. I'd sooner just pay the 2nd for Gavrikov and call it a day.

Fair play. That's what I get for skimming.

 

I don't know if I agree with you, though. Let's assume your prices are right. We've now gone two seasons at least with no real solution at 3LD, rotating between Nemeth and Hajek and Braun and Jones and sorta-kinda-but-not-really Robertson...I'd rather throw the 2nd and the 3rd and know it's far less likely to be an issue for two seasons than throw the second at Gavrikov and then another second next year (or just far more cap than 850k), and so on.

 

It's kind of an endless circle thing with us - we seem unable to figure out the guy in FA and unable to figure out the permanent spot. We do not seem to have a draftee remotely ready to take the spot. I think the picks are inevitable - the question is certainty and for how long.

[Long live the King]

1 hour ago, Valriera said:

The real gas to me about literally all of this is we let Brandon Smith walk for absolutely no reason two seasons ago and that decision continues to fucking haunt us. I love what Drury has done with the team so far but that was a real mistake. He's always a versatile, servicable defenseman not worth 4M a year but absolutely worth 1, and we let him go to create a hole in our lineup that we're simply unable to fill. 

 

I remember when this post was made I made the first comment and it remains exactly correct. Even the next one, about the price, exactly correct, because he signed an 800k 1 yr and now a 1.1M AAV 2 year deal with the devils. We were clearly all wrong in the thread that the team shouldn't have trouble finding depth options, because we do, and have ever since this silly, silly move. You can't possibly look at our 3D situation and say someone like smith playing with a rotating roster of Schneider/hajek/whomever is the ideal situation and we can't have that because...well I still have no idea why. Boils my shit that one. 

 

 

Smith sucks.  Not sure how that haunts us.  Be barely played for Carolina in the playoffs and they replaced him with 26 year old Jalen Chatfield who had 34 games of NHL experience, also sucks, and barely plays.  

 

People like to say, "Look at Smith on Carolina/New Jersey and those teams are winning!".  We filled that spot with Nemeth/Hajek/Braun/Harpur/Jones and are also winning.  Smith isn't a difference maker as LD3.  He's more of the same that we're already trotting out there.

[Long live the King]

Every team has a 6th D that they hide in the playoffs.

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I didn't say double, I said with retention. Double requires paying two teams, so it's pretty compounded. I don't know how much of an appetite I'd have to pay like a 2nd rounder to MTL for 50% + Edmundson, then what, another 3rd + to Arizona to eat an additional 50%? Feels like a lot for a third-pairing defenseman simply because your team is so cap-pressed. I'd sooner just pay the 2nd for Gavrikov and call it a day.

IIRC you can only retain on 2 contracts and Arizona is already retaining OEL.

 

Gonna take a lot for them to retain another one where they just get a 3rd out of it.

 

Unless I'm wrong, makes double retention a pipe dream for a rental. 

[Drew a Penalty]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

IIRC you can only retain on 2 contracts and Arizona is already retaining OEL.

 

Gonna take a lot for them to retain another one where they just get a 3rd out of it.

 

Unless I'm wrong, makes double retention a pipe dream for a rental. 

You can retain on up to 3 players.

[Phil]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

IIRC you can only retain on 2 contracts and Arizona is already retaining OEL.

 

Gonna take a lot for them to retain another one where they just get a 3rd out of it.

 

Unless I'm wrong, makes double retention a pipe dream for a rental. 

 

It's three, but you're not wrong about your assessment anyway. I just don't think it works for this type of player. It makes sense for a Patrick Kane (if it's required). That type of player has the cache that will actually incentivize two teams to retain.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

You can retain on up to 3 players.

Thanks. Still find it unrealistic and will have to overpay to have them do it.

 

Doesn't make sense for a 3td pair LD.

[Pete]

Just now, Phil said:

 

It's three, but you're not wrong about your assessment anyway. I just don't think it works for this type of player. It makes sense for a Patrick Kane (if it's required). That type of player has the cache that will actually incentivize two teams to retain.

Yes, 100%. See above.

[Phil]

[Long live the King]

Not sure on the final math, but as it stands...

 

NYR project deadline cap space:  $7,121,804

 

Kane remaining cap hit: $6,527,027

Edmunson remaining cap hit:  $2,175,676

 

The remaining cap hits will go down and the deadline cap space could go up.  They may be able to fit Kane without paying CHI extra for retention, meaning they could spend a little extra to try and get Edmundson at 50% retention, adding him for the playoffs this year and having him at $1.75 next year.

[Long live the King]

Not sure if this is exactly how it works, but Kane's daily cap hit is $56,800 and there are 74 days until the deadline.  That equals $4,203,200 which would leave Kane's cap hit on dealine day at $2,323,827.  Edmondson only owed $777,076 after the deadline.  

 

Appears as though deadline cap space is no issue.  Only hold up would be year 2 on Edmundson's deal.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Long live the King

[The Dude]

I'm looking Olli Maattta, Nikita Zadorov and im just throwing Travis Dermott (coming off IR) into the conversation, as guys that are on reasonable contracts that have contracts that can be retained by the other team. 

 

They have experience and some size. Not your typical 3rd pair/ 7th D garbage. Having a Maatta or Zadorov there to step in if Lindgren or Miller can't go, would be huge in a pinch. They are also vets, so Gallant wouldn't shorten the bench in a big game.

 

Dermott is just a guy I've always thought needed a change of scenery. Though he doesn't have the size, the Rangers think they need.. I think he skates well and was able to play with an edge. The offense never came around,  but as a 3rd pairing guy, thats not exactly necessary. Obviously the other 2 are the big gets. 

 

Zadorov carries a 3.7 cap hit. A roster player would have to go to Calgary (Blais or Gauthier) and Calgary would obviously have to retain 50% for it to work.  

 

Maataa carries a 2.2 cap his and is probably the better fit all around as far as being attainable with retention and and fitting under the cap,  as well as team need. 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by The Dude

[RangersIn7]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Robertson would have gotten a callup instead of Harpur, if we was ready. IIRC he was one of the first cuts in camps.

 

I don't want to trade for a D at the deadline, you pay an outsized cost because everyone wants defense. Unless you can grab a Braun-type 20-game rental. Coincidentally, he should be available.

 

But he stinks.

Yeah. 
 

But they are trading for a deadline D.

 Have to.

[Valriera]

5 hours ago, Long live the King said:

 

Smith sucks.  Not sure how that haunts us.  Be barely played for Carolina in the playoffs and they replaced him with 26 year old Jalen Chatfield who had 34 games of NHL experience, also sucks, and barely plays.  

 

People like to say, "Look at Smith on Carolina/New Jersey and those teams are winning!".  We filled that spot with Nemeth/Hajek/Braun/Harpur/Jones and are also winning.  Smith isn't a difference maker as LD3.  He's more of the same that we're already trotting out there.

Smith sucks at 4m a year. At 1m a year he no longer sucks and is a great candidate to play bottom six defenseman with a young mentee. Which is exactly the hole that we have and need to fill, and exactly what we couldn’t fill by spending 4m a year on nemeth. 

[Cash or Czech]

I would entertain the Dallas 1st in a trade for Gavrikov

[BrooksBurner]

There was a time I thought Gavrikov is good. Not anymore. He stinks.

[Pete]

15 hours ago, Cash or Czech said:

I would entertain the Dallas 1st in a trade for Gavrikov

I wouldn't. Not for a 3rd pair LD. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

If the price is a 1st + a 3rd in December you'll probably get him for a late 2nd at the deadline.

[RangersIn7]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

You're confusing rehabbing and getting back into game shape. One can be done while on LTIR, the other needs game reps in order to happen.

 

He'll either get his game back by the deadline, or he won't and he'll probably be gone. He's not stopping them from doing anything they want to do at the cap. He isn't costing them $1.5, he's costing them maybe $600K because if he were gone there would be another 13th forward making what $900k?

 

It's really a non issue. The team is winning and we're talking about a 13th forward because he took a bad penalty. If the PP converted on any of their glorious chances, we wouldn't be.

This is it.

 

Hes got till the deadline to find his game. You won’t get any argument from me that he can sit some and let others play . But he’s a 4th liner playing 10 minutes a night. Not really something that requires all of this. 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

This is it.

 

Hes got till the deadline to find his game. You won’t get any argument from me that he can sit some and let others play . But he’s a 4th liner playing 10 minutes a night. Not really something that requires all of this. 

Did you use Christmas magic to get this post into another thread LOL?

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Did you use Christmas magic to get this post into another thread LOL?

Is it in 2 threads???

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

23 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

This is it.

 

Hes got till the deadline to find his game. You won’t get any argument from me that he can sit some and let others play . But he’s a 4th liner playing 10 minutes a night. Not really something that requires all of this. 

 

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

Did you use Christmas magic to get this post into another thread LOL?

lol what. How did you do that @RangersIn7??

@Phil

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Is it in 2 threads???

You got your Blais post in and Edmundson thread...
 

 

 

[RangersIn7]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

You got your Blais post in and Edmundson thread...
 

 

 

I think it saved as the page reloaded and it posted there accidentally.