Playoffs 2022-23 ECQF #1: Rangers @ New Jersey Devils — Rip and Tear

[Duguay10]

1 hour ago, CCCP said:

and rightfully so.  

Guy has has had one of the 10 best Ranger careers (time with the Rangers, for example better than Gretzky as a Ranger) over the past half century. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

The 6 pack is already in the fridge!  If you wanna stop by, I can magically turn that into a 12!

Not sure what's on the agenda, but it's very tempting.  I'll let you know.

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

I don't like it necessarily but I think it is already guaranteed. Career Ranger and multiple record holder.

eh...i dont think he is anything special

[Albatrosss]

10 minutes ago, Duguay10 said:

Guy has has had one of the 10 best Ranger careers (time with the Rangers, for example better than Gretzky as a Ranger) over the past half century. 

Rangers dont retire #s left and right.  You must be very special to have your jersey retired.  I dont think CK is anything special.  Other than last year his highest point total is 54 points.  What's so special about that?  Just because he's a career ranger (yet still to see) doesnt make you a special player to have an honor of your jersey # retired

Edited April 19, 2023 by CCCP

[RodrigueGabriel]

34 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

The problem with Kreider has always been consistency.   He's always left the Rangers fans wanting more and thinking what if he ever put it all together.    On the whole he's put together a pretty good career.  No matter what happens from this point I think it's pretty certain he'll have his number retired by the Rangers.

This season was weird. It felt like he was doing his historical disappearing act, but he would chip in goals here and there. Then you get to the end and he's got 36, which would have been far and away his best season without last year. And then you have to compare it to 52. So it's hard to get a firm handle on.

[Kevin]

3 hours ago, CCCP said:

i wouldnt go that far. But if CK wins the cup here, then yes.  

The cup would be ideal but how many retired Rangers numbers have a cup attached to their career? It’s not a requirement and his career, once it’s done, will be close to the top of the career goal list by a Ranger.  I’m thinking he’ll be damn close to Gilbert’s 408 goals, we’ll be around 700 career points and over 1000 games as a Ranger. 

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

The cup would be ideal but how many retired Rangers numbers have a cup attached to their career? It’s not a requirement and his career, once it’s done, will be close to the top of the career goal list by a Ranger.  I’m thinking he’ll be damn close to Gilbert’s 408 goals, we’ll be around 700 career points and over 1000 games as a Ranger. 

What’s so special about that?

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

The cup would be ideal but how many retired Rangers numbers have a cup attached to their career? It’s not a requirement and his career, once it’s done, will be close to the top of the career goal list by a Ranger.  I’m thinking he’ll be damn close to Gilbert’s 408 goals, we’ll be around 700 career points and over 1000 games as a Ranger. 

I think his overall numbers will compare very well to Graves, Kreider even better playoff numbers by the time he's done.  Graves magical season came with a cup.  I thought then and still do his number retirement was heavy on sentimental value and what he did off the ice. I think CK has some value there too. I think it will happen. IF he wins a cup I think it's a slam dunk.   I think Graves sets the standard for Kreider to get his up there.  I thought Graves was a stretch at the time.

[lefty9]

7 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Love Kreider, but he'd still be a 25 goal 50 point guy if Fox isn't on the team/PP. The ice is tilted so frequently in the Rangers' favor when Fox is on the ice.

You don't think it works the other way around,Kreider helps Fox get assists  in the score box by being a force in front of the net and very good hands deflecting shots in the net

 

[Scott]

13 minutes ago, lefty9 said:

You don't think it works the other way around,Kreider helps Fox get assists  in the score box by being a force in front of the net and very good hands deflecting shots in the net

 

Absolutely.  I think it was @Pete who said it best the guy's shot couldn't get through a wet tissue. (or something like that).  I apologize if I got it wrong Pete.

[BrooksBurner]

42 minutes ago, lefty9 said:

You don't think it works the other way around,Kreider helps Fox get assists  in the score box by being a force in front of the net and very good hands deflecting shots in the net

 

 

Yes, I think it's mutually beneficial, but still heavily slanted in favor of Fox boosting Kreider. Kreider had many years pre-Fox and couldn't break 30 goals. It's too hard to make a statistical case that Fox is why Kreider is what he is since Fox joined the team 4 years ago, because Panarin came in at the same time (PP boost) and Zibanejad became an elite center at the same time. So it's just my opinion based on what I've seen out of Fox during his career. He's an absolute magician with the puck and he's really the guy that makes this team go.

Edited April 20, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

13 hours ago, CCCP said:

What’s so special about that?

Most goals in one season, most playoff goals, might finish with the most goals overall (atleast top 3). That's three pretty special accomplishments.

 

And you have to factor in that he's a career Ranger (assuming he finishes his career here). The story about how he debuted in the playoffs, he was here during the 2014-16 runs, stayed thru the re-build as a leader and is now leading the team back to the top.

 

A cup will guarantee it and if he stays here for the rest of his career (without a cup) I still think he's more likely than not to get his # retired.

[lefty9]

11 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Yes, I think it's mutually beneficial, but still heavily slanted in favor of Fox boosting Kreider. Kreider had many years pre-Fox and couldn't break 30 goals. It's too hard to make a statistical case that Fox is why Kreider is what he is since Fox joined the team 4 years ago, because Panarin came in at the same time (PP boost) and Zibanejad became an elite center at the same time. So it's just my opinion based on what I've seen out of Fox during his career. He's an absolute magician with the puck and he's really the guy that makes this team go.

Back than they didn't run the pp like they did in recent years ,the rangers added players like zib and bread plus the pp QB  Fox and Kreider  is a recipe For goals

Edited April 20, 2023 by lefty9

[Pete]

I think Zibenejad gets much more credit than Fox. Both at even strength and on the power play, He's been giving Kreider tap ins for years. Sometimes he'll pull up on that one timer on the power play and feed it across. It's all MZ. He's the straw that stirs the drink.

 

The Rangers have overcome many games where Fox was bad, not saying that he wasn't at his peak, I'm saying outright bad. When Zib is on his game he's unstoppable, and when he's off the team struggles to get anything going. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I think Zibenejad gets much more credit than Fox. Both at even strength and on the power play, He's been giving Kreider tap ins for years. Sometimes he'll pull up on that one timer on the power play and feed it across. It's all MZ. He's the straw that stirs the drink.

 

The Rangers have overcome many games where Fox was bad, not saying that he wasn't at his peak, I'm saying outright bad. When Zib is on his game he's unstoppable, and when he's off the team struggles to get anything going. 

 

I love Zibs, but I would bet my house that if Fox was taken out of the lineup the Rangers would be worse off than if Zibanejad got taken out. Fox is irreplaceable.

Edited April 20, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[lefty9]

If i was picking a team and my choices where zib   or Fox ,I'm picking zib 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I love Zibs, but I would bet my house that if Fox was taken out of the lineup the Rangers would be worse off than if Zibanejad got taken out. Fox is irreplaceable.

But we're not talking about what happens when they're out of the lineup because that involves other people taking those minutes. We're talking about what makes the team go, and that's Zib. Again, the team survives when Fox is being bad for 23 minutes a night. But they struggle for any kind of offense when Zib is struggling.

 

And Zib, as Kreider's linemate, gets more credit (not a ton more, but more) than Fox does for Kreider's surge. Zibanejad has had an assist on 58 of Chris Kreider's goals over the last 3 years. This is the most assists by any player on Kreider's goals during that time period.

[Albatrosss]

9 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Most goals in one season, most playoff goals, might finish with the most goals overall (atleast top 3). That's three pretty special accomplishments.

 

And you have to factor in that he's a career Ranger (assuming he finishes his career here). The story about how he debuted in the playoffs, he was here during the 2014-16 runs, stayed thru the re-build as a leader and is now leading the team back to the top.

 

A cup will guarantee it and if he stays here for the rest of his career (without a cup) I still think he's more likely than not to get his # retired.

Most goals in one season is still Jagr.  Again, other than last year's anomaly, highest point total in one season is 54.  

 

Zibby is more deserving of his number being retired than Kreider. Kreider is your average goal scorer

[BrooksBurner]

21 hours ago, Pete said:

But we're not talking about what happens when they're out of the lineup because that involves other people taking those minutes. We're talking about what makes the team go, and that's Zib. Again, the team survives when Fox is being bad for 23 minutes a night. But they struggle for any kind of offense when Zib is struggling.

 

And Zib, as Kreider's linemate, gets more credit (not a ton more, but more) than Fox does for Kreider's surge. Zibanejad has had an assist on 58 of Chris Kreider's goals over the last 3 years. This is the most assists by any player on Kreider's goals during that time period.

 

Don't agree with this statement at all. I don't even have to go very far to dismantle it. Zibanejad has one assist through two playoff games and the Rangers have scored 10 goals. Fox 6 assists.

[Ozzy]

One thing I can say about Zibby, is that he's been matched up against Hischier and Hughes for both games, and they haven't done a blessed thing out there against him.  He's basically playing the "Patrice Bergeron" role for us in this one so far.

 

I think he'll score a few, especially when we need one..but so far, he's been Mika "Selke" out there!

Fox has been absolutely fabulous....I'm glad we have both of them, to tell you quite honestly! 

[Pete]

31 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Don't agree with this statement at all. I don't even have to go very far to dismantle it. Zibanejad has one assist through two playoff games and the Rangers have scored 10 goals. Fox 6 assists.

Well, surely basing your argument on 2 games makes it irrefutable. It couldn't possibly be you trying to make an opportunistic point based on recency!

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well, surely basing your argument on 2 games makes it irrefutable. It couldn't possibly be you trying to make an opportunistic point based on recency!

 

It's not. You made a definitive statement that they struggle to generate offense when Zibanejad isn't doing anything. It's clearly wrong.

[Pete]

53 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

It's not. You made a definitive statement that they struggle to generate offense when Zibanejad isn't doing anything. It's clearly wrong.

As proven over....2 games.

[BrooksBurner]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

As proven over....2 games.

 

There was no data provided with your initial assertion. Prove it, and it needs to go beyond the obvious "team scores less when their 1C getting tons of minutes doesn't score".

 

Without doing any leg work, I've got 2 games with zero statistical digging and which occurred in the playoffs, where the team scored 5 a game while Zibanejad was pretty invis. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Sharpshooter]

If memory serves, didn't Mike get off to a bit of a slow start in the first round last year also? Then he became a pretty big reason they went on to win that series and wound up having a good postseason overall.