It's Time to Have the Lafrenière Conversation

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

 

Exactly.  It was like 2 years ago that Laffy was #2 on the Rangers in even strength goals, after Kreider.

 

It's easy to look at him and say he's a failure but there are facts that contradict that.

[Pete]

35 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Exactly.  It was like 2 years ago that Laffy was #2 on the Rangers in even strength goals, after Kreider.

 

It's easy to look at him and say he's a failure but there are facts that contradict that.

He's a number 1 overall and is 10 years younger he should be blowing Kreider away in ESP. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Pete

[Br4d]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

He's a number 1 overall and is 10 years younger he should be blowing Kreider away in ESP. 

 

I'd have the sunk cost conversation again but I think you're just never going to get over the #1OA and it's going to poison you against the value that Laffy actually represents.

 

Unless we have to pay Laffy like a #1OA for some reason I have no problem taking the production that he gives at 21 and hoping that he's much better at 24.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Br4d

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I'd have the sunk cost conversation again but I think you're just never going to get over the #1OA and it's going to poison you against the value that Laffy actually represents.

 

Unless we have to pay Laffy like a #1OA for some reason I have no problem taking the production that he gives at 21 and hoping that he's much better at 24.

And I think that’s what you’re going to find. 
Kakko too.

 

Both those guys have their best hock in front of them.

The players that they’ll be at 24-30 could look very different then what they are or have been, etc., age 18-23. 
Ceiling still in a good spot. 

[Br4d]

BTW, just to add to the 19 goals at even strength thing.

 

How many times in his career has Chris Kreider scored 19 even strength goals in a season?

 

The answer is 4 times.

 

His high in even strength goals was 24 this season.  He had 23 last season.  He had 22 at the age of 25 and he had 21 at the age of 27.

 

[Sod16]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:50 PM, Phil said:

 

 

Be patient with LaF!  Next year, when he gets zero goals and one assist in an opening round seven game series loss, we can all note that it represents an improvement.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Sod16

[The Dude]

13 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Actually, no. Not from what I saw. It was a lot of breakaways and easy 2 on 1 rushes, but the other clips were attacking the net and shooting. He picked up that curl back from Panarin. Neat, huh?

Weird. Panarin does his curl in past the faceoff dots, and puts up 90 points in a bad year.

 

Lafrenière does his as soon as he enters the zone and doesn't put up 90 points. Or 50. Or 40.. 

 

See how that works? One is an all world talent who commanded 11 mill a year in free agency. The other is an out of shape bust,  1OA who is possibly being bridged at or below 3 mill for his next contract. 

 

Neat INDEED. 

 

 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Weird. Panarin does his curl in past the faceoff dots, and puts up 90 points in a bad year.

 

Lafrenière does his as soon as he enters the zone and doesn't put up 90 points. Or 50. Or 40.. 

 

See how that works? One is an all world talent who commanded 11 mill a year in free agency. The other is an out of shape bust,  1OA who is possibly being bridged at or below 3 mill for his next contract. 

 

Neat INDEED. 

 

 

 

 

 

Irrelevant comparison.

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yakupov had major issues in terms of his attitude, work ethic, and character that were apparent in his draft interviews. 
LaFreniere doesn’t seem to have those issues 

He doesn't? 

 

Attitude- immature goofball. 

Work ethic- out of shape,  gassed after every shift.

 

I'm sure he interviewed great. Probably wandered around the office, picking everything up and shaking it, then holding it to his ears, then put whatever he could over his top lip to create a mustache. " Look! Pen mustache!". Wanders away.. "Look! Lamp musta... sorry I broke your lamp hahahahahahahaha!". "Look! Copy machine mus..... oh you no like I do that? Ok. I'll stop." "Look! You have a mustache. I touch mustache.  Nice mustache ". 

 

 

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Hughes had 11 PP goals and 30 PP points in those 3 years.

Yakupov had 15 PP goals and 26 PP points in those 3 years.

 

Lafreniere has 3 PP goals and 6 PP points in his 3 years.

 

Factor all that in and the numbers are:

 

Hughes: 78 points in 166 games.  Hughes had 33 even strength goals.

Yakupov: 62 points in 192 games.  Yakupov had 27 even strength goals.

Lafreniere: 85 pts in 216 games.  Lafreniere had 44 even strength goals.

 

Hughes and Yakupov played on top lines against top defenders. 

 

Lafrenière played against 3rd and 4th lines. True talent shines through. Lafrenière could have earned PP minutes if he dominated against better match ups. He didn't. 

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

I'd have the sunk cost conversation again but I think you're just never going to get over the #1OA and it's going to poison you against the value that Laffy actually represents.

 

Unless we have to pay Laffy like a #1OA for some reason I have no problem taking the production that he gives at 21 and hoping that he's much better at 24.

They can get that production and from a better suited player that brings team needs to the table. The Rangers don't need a soft, one dimensional, LW. His game is redundant. They need a more complete player. 

 

The sunk cost argument doesn't fit. They have too many soft players. Having another that isn't a game changer is a problem. If they had more beef and frit in the top 6 without Panarin and Zibanejad there. The 40 point middling LW would be good to keep around. 

 

If he would play RW and be OK with it. I'd be fine with keeping him around as that 40 point guy. Apparently he doesn't want to stay on the right. 

[Br4d]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

They can get that production and from a better suited player that brings team needs to the table. The Rangers don't need a soft, one dimensional, LW. His game is redundant. They need a more complete player. 

 

The sunk cost argument doesn't fit. They have too many soft players. Having another that isn't a game changer is a problem. If they had more beef and frit in the top 6 without Panarin and Zibanejad there. The 40 point middling LW would be good to keep around. 

 

If he would play RW and be OK with it. I'd be fine with keeping him around as that 40 point guy. Apparently he doesn't want to stay on the right. 

 

Odds are pretty good he's better than a 40 point guy next season.  21-31-39 doesn't add up to 40 at 22.  He's more likely a 49 pt guy + whatever he gets on the PP.

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Br4d said:

BTW, just to add to the 19 goals at even strength thing.

 

How many times in his career has Chris Kreider scored 19 even strength goals in a season?

 

The answer is 4 times.

 

His high in even strength goals was 24 this season.  He had 23 last season.  He had 22 at the age of 25 and he had 21 at the age 

 

 

Great. Now do Zibanejad. 

 

This take doesn't hold any water. Can't hold it against players for getting the right to play on the PP and producing on it. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by The Dude

[The Dude]

23 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Irrelevant comparison.

Irrelevant because it shows that one is an elite player than can pull off a curl in move, while the other can't?

 

OK 

 

Sure.

 

Right. 

[The Dude]

3 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Odds are pretty good he's better than a 40 point guy next season.  21-31-39 doesn't add up to 40 at 22.  He's more likely a 49 pt guy + whatever he gets on the PP.

On what team? He's not getting PP1 time here. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Irrelevant because it shows that one is an elite player than can pull off a curl in move, while the other can't?

 

OK 

 

Sure.

 

Right. 

 

The curl move is the worst part of Panarin's game in the playoffs. Curl, chuck the pass, giveaway. Rinse and repeat.

[The Dude]

57 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

The curl move is the worst part of Panarin's game in the playoffs. Curl, chuck the pass, giveaway. Rinse and repeat.

Glad he didn't do that in this years playoffs. Instead he was  taking the puck to the middle of the ice and attacking the net (and missing it).

 

I'd love to see the difference in scoring opportunities (including shots wide) between the 2 for the playoffs.  

 

Just guessing here. But I'd say Panarin was 1st or 2nd in scoring chances and Lafrenière was probably down at the bottom with Halak. 

 

[Valriera]

Looking forward to what a new coach also can’t get out of bagelman

[LindG1000]

I think it's worth reviving this thread for a second.

 

We've now seen some of the player quotes from exit interviews around Gallant. That they weren't getting advice, or guidance. That there wasn't a clear strategy. The constant "he knows what we need from him" when it was clear that they didn't. Laf's been here for three years. He had an acceptable rookie season under Quinn and has basically stalled since then under Gallant.

 

Are we rushing to judgment on this one, and do we think a new coach could unlock the Lafreniere we thought we were drafting?

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

I think it's worth reviving this thread for a second.

 

We've now seen some of the player quotes from exit interviews around Gallant. That they weren't getting advice, or guidance. That there wasn't a clear strategy. The constant "he knows what we need from him" when it was clear that they didn't. Laf's been here for three years. He had an acceptable rookie season under Quinn and has basically stalled since then under Gallant.

 

Are we rushing to judgment on this one, and do we think a new coach could unlock the Lafreniere we thought we were drafting?

I said this in another thread. I do agree, it needs to be done under a new coach and it needs to be done quickly. 

 

The only thing I will continue to point out is, the painfully obvious lack of dynamic play and creativity. I mean we're talking about a guy who has two career highlights and they are both the same exact deke. 

 

Again, out of all of the kid line forwards, he is the one that is least impressive to the eyeballs. 

[Drew a Penalty]

Just now, Pete said:

they are both the same exact deke. 

 

That even Julien Gauthier can pull off.

[Ozzy]

24 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

I think it's worth reviving this thread for a second.

 

We've now seen some of the player quotes from exit interviews around Gallant. That they weren't getting advice, or guidance. That there wasn't a clear strategy. The constant "he knows what we need from him" when it was clear that they didn't. Laf's been here for three years. He had an acceptable rookie season under Quinn and has basically stalled since then under Gallant.

 

Are we rushing to judgment on this one, and do we think a new coach could unlock the Lafreniere we thought we were drafting?

 

Now that shit is coming out about how Gallant "coached", I think it's worth at least giving him one more pass....But in my opinion, his talent has to show up in a hurry.  If he's not looking like an impact player by next year's deadline, I say hasta la vista, baby!

Edited May 17, 2023 by Ozzy

[Long live the King]

22 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

I think it's worth reviving this thread for a second.

 

We've now seen some of the player quotes from exit interviews around Gallant. That they weren't getting advice, or guidance. That there wasn't a clear strategy. The constant "he knows what we need from him" when it was clear that they didn't. Laf's been here for three years. He had an acceptable rookie season under Quinn and has basically stalled since then under Gallant.

 

Are we rushing to judgment on this one, and do we think a new coach could unlock the Lafreniere we thought we were drafting?

 

Absolutely we are.  I get it.  He's not gonna be Hughes and everyone is mad about it.  There's no reason he can't be RNH.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Didn’t RNH just have a 100 point season?

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Didn’t RNH just have a 100 point season?

He previous career high was 69.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Pete