The Rangers Need a Right-Wing (Again)

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yeah, Don't buy it. You don't need that kind of thing in your top six, you need it more on your lower lines.

 

The third line being the kid line really screwed this team. 

 

Kreider Tro Vesey solves a good bit. 

 

Florida's entire second line spits all over this with the utmost disrespect and dares you to do something about it, Mitchell. So does Kane's total appreciation of Brandon Saad.

 

But I do agree with straight arrow line. The lineup I've been talking about forcibly puts that unit together for exactly that reason.

 

Laugh-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Chytil-X

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey

 

Solve for X and I'm good with it. As long as X isn't another shrinking violet.

 

Figured I'd do you a favor and change up my floral analogy.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

Florida's entire second line spits all over this with the utmost disrespect and dares you to do something about it, Mitchell.

 

But I do agree with straight arrow line. The lineup I've been talking about forcibly puts that unit together for exactly that reason.

 

Laugh-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Chytil-X

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey

 

Solve for X and I'm good with it. As long as X isn't another shrinking violet.

 

Figured I'd do you a favor and change up my floral analogy.

The way Florida does it is one way, it's not the only way tho. 

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

The way Florida does it is one way, it's not the only way tho. 

 

"I know a lot of people don't like hearing this — choirboys do not win the Stanley Cup. You can be a really nice and decent person off the ice, but in the playoffs, you have to have a team full of pricks." — Elliotte Friedman

 

Find me the Cup-winning/highly successful franchise that did it any other way.

 

Grit/toughness/pricks/whatever you want to call it players playing key roles (in other words, not just on the fourth line) has been central to winning a Stanley Cup since the NHL's inaugural season.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

"I know a lot of people don't like hearing this — choirboys do not win the Stanley Cup. You can be a really nice and decent person off the ice, but in the playoffs, you have to have a team full of pricks." — Elliotte Friedman

 

Find me the Cup-winning/highly successful franchise that did it any other way.

 

Grit/toughness/pricks/whatever you want to call it players playing key roles (in other words, not just on the fourth line) has been central to winning a Stanley Cup since the NHL's inaugural season.

I'm talking about having that element in the top 6. You don't need it there. As long as you have it and deploy it. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Pete

[Phil]

I mean, find me the team that won that didn't have it there? Feels pretty important to have it pretty high up in your lineup.

 

I can't think of a single Cup-winning team who didn't.

 

The Rangers have had it on their fourth line for like three years running, but those players are extremely limited. There's a reason it failed to translate in the playoffs. You need guys who can actually play big roles.

[siddious]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Florida's entire second line spits all over this with the utmost disrespect and dares you to do something about it, Mitchell. So does Kane's total appreciation of Brandon Saad.

 

But I do agree with straight arrow line. The lineup I've been talking about forcibly puts that unit together for exactly that reason.

 

Laugh-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Chytil-X

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey

 

Solve for X and I'm good with it. As long as X isn't another shrinking violet.

 

Figured I'd do you a favor and change up my floral analogy.

If laugh wasn’t so terrible Id actually say that top line should be tried 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

If laugh wasn’t so terrible Id actually say that top line should be tried 

 

I mean, he and Kakko are both in the same "you kinda have to" camp.

 

Kakko even moreso because there's fucking no one on RW even remotely better.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

I mean, find me the team that won that didn't have it there? Feels pretty important to have it pretty high up in your lineup.

 

I can't think of a single Cup-winning team who didn't.

 

The Rangers have had it on their fourth line for like three years running, but those players are extremely limited. There's a reason it failed to translate in the playoffs. You need guys who can actually play big roles.

It's not that they're limite as much as it's that they don't play as much and are mostly deployed in the D zone. 

 

Look the team needs a RW and I'm not turning my nose up at a discounted Kane because he doesn't meet some random criteria for "prick".

 

That's just going to be this summers buzzword, I can tell already. It's why I hope Florida loses. Everyone is on Tkachuck's meat (and rightfully so) but people don't really understand that those players are unicorns. Teams don't just give them up and you can't just go out and get them.

 

Finding another way to do this is going to be a necessity. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Pete

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's not that they're limite as much as it's that they don't play as much and are mostly deployed in the D zone. 

 

Look the team needs a RW and I'm not turning my nose up at a discounted Kane because he doesn't meet some random criteria for "prick".

 

That's just going to be this summers buzzword, I can tell already. It's why I hope Florida loses. Everyone is on Tkachuck's meat (and rightfully so) but people don't really understand that those players are unicorns. Teams don't just give them up and you can't just go out and get them.

 

Finding another way to do this is going to be a necessity. 

 

Tkachuck is a unicorn, yes. The approach Florida took to change their culture and re-balance their lineup after they got swept out of the playoffs the previous year isn't. Tkachuck was the tip of the spear, but they fundamentally changed their roster from high-skill no will to high-skill high will. They moved Sam Bennett up, signed Nick Cousins, brought in Colin White for their fourth line, etc.

 

I'm not asking the Rangers to find Tkachuck. I mean, I am, but I know it's a needle in a haystack. I think they can do small adjustments that will better balance the roster so it's equipped for more likely playoff success. On paper, Jesper Fast over Patrick Kane seems insane, but when push comes to shove as it inevitably does every playoffs, I trust a roster with Fast playing a key fuck you role than I do a top-six made up of four guys you can't pay to get off the fucking walls.

 

 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Tkachuck is a unicorn, yes. The approach Florida took to change their culture and re-balance their lineup after they got swept out of the playoffs the previous year isn't. Tkachuck was the tip of the spear, but they fundamentally changed their roster from high-skill no will to high-skill high will. They moved Sam Bennett up, signed Nick Cousins, brought in Colin White for their fourth line, etc.

 

I'm not asking the Rangers to find Tkachuck. I mean, I am, but I know it's a needle in a haystack. I think they can do small adjustments that will better balance the roster so it's equipped for more likely playoff success. On paper, Jesper Fast over Patrick Kane seems insane, but when push comes to shove as it inevitably does every playoffs, I trust a roster with Fast playing a key fuck you role than I do a top-six made up of four guys you can't pay to get off the fucking walls.

 

 

I don't get how Fast equals Tkachuk/Bennet/Cousins. He had 16 PIMs and got Byng votes last year.

 

I'll have to take a look and see who else is available later.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I don't get how Fast equals Tkachuk/Bennet/Cousins. He had 16 PIMs and got Byng votes last year.

 

I'll have to take a look and see who else is available later.

Fast is basically Cousins. Purely complementary "top-six" player you wouldn't normally consider a top-six player. All forecheck all the time.

[RichieNextel305]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Florida's entire second line spits all over this with the utmost disrespect and dares you to do something about it, Mitchell. So does Kane's total appreciation of Brandon Saad.

 

But I do agree with straight arrow line. The lineup I've been talking about forcibly puts that unit together for exactly that reason.

 

Laugh-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Chytil-X

Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey

 

Solve for X and I'm good with it. As long as X isn't another shrinking violet.

 

Figured I'd do you a favor and change up my floral analogy.

Literally the lineup I posted in another thread, so I agree.

 

Where we won’t agree is I’m fine with X being Kane.

 

But yeah, I agree. Put Kreider with Trocheck and give Lafreniere and Kakko the assignment as both being top line wings and see what they got. It would be the first time I believe Lafreniere would get that look on his proper side.

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

Fast is basically Cousins. Purely complementary "top-six" player you wouldn't normally consider a top-six player. All forecheck all the time.

Got it. I'm not too familiar with Cousins' game.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

If laugh wasn’t so terrible Id actually say that top line should be tried 

I agree with @Phil almost entirely with what he's posting here in the last few pages but if your first line is made up of Laugh-Zib-Kakko, you don't have a first line, you just don't, I don't care who draws what on the whiteboard.  You're chopping Zib off at the knees.

 

It's nice to hear Kakko wants more playing time and PP time.  He doesn't deserve to be getting 1st line mins, that's a failure on the composition of the roster. Sure he can have the last 10 seconds if there's a stoppage of a pp.

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I agree with @Phil almost entirely with what he's posting here in the last few pages but if your first line is made up of Laugh-Zib-Kakko, you don't have a first line, you just don't, I don't care who draws what on the whiteboard.  You're chopping Zib off at the knees.

 

It's nice to hear Kakko wants more playing time and PP time.  He doesn't deserve to be getting 1st line mins, that's a failure on the composition of the roster. Sure he can have the last 10 seconds if there's a stoppage of a pp.

 

I agree, but again, this is all compositional issue. The Rangers are fucked because they have one foot planted firmly in two camps — the rebuild that never was and the contention that never is.

 

Laugh and Kakko are functional busts (relative to where they were taken), but need real playing time to see if there's any there there. With Kakko there probably is. With Laugh, there probably isn't, but as long as Laugh is on this roster, it's impossible to balance the roster/team properly.

 

I'd trade him, personally, and hope to land a young-ish RW to take the Fast/X spot. But I'm not sure if the team has the stomach to do it.

[Phil]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

Got it. I'm not too familiar with Cousins' game.

 

Flyers drafted him cause he was a high-scoring Junior player. Never translated to the NHL so he kinda changed his game. Strong defensive forward with limited scoring, but he's much more of an agitator than Fast is.

[Scott]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I agree, but again, this is all compositional issue. The Rangers are fucked because they have one foot planted firmly in two camps — the rebuild that never was and the contention that never is.

 

Laugh and Kakko are functional busts (relative to where they were taken), but need real playing time to see if there's any there there. With Kakko there probably is. With Laugh, there probably isn't, but as long as Laugh is on this roster, it's impossible to balance the roster/team properly.

 

I'd trade him, personally, and hope to land a young-ish RW to take the Fast/X spot. But I'm not sure if the team has the stomach to do it.

Yep - although imo a major part of the reason that are fucked is because the two functional busts have turned out to be just that. I don't believe there's a magical whiteboard to make them much more than they are today. There's a real lack of hockey IQ there with things when to shoot/pass with Kakko in the NHL game even after 4 years and multiple coaches telling him to shoot the puck.  He pouts like his dog was shot, if they bring in a guy with a heavy hand he will need a Depends every time he takes the ice. 

 

With Laugh that horse has been pounded into powder at this point. Although he does have the best (and only mid-game) chinstrap moustache in the league.

[siddious]

56 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I agree with @Phil almost entirely with what he's posting here in the last few pages but if your first line is made up of Laugh-Zib-Kakko, you don't have a first line, you just don't, I don't care who draws what on the whiteboard.  You're chopping Zib off at the knees.

 

It's nice to hear Kakko wants more playing time and PP time.  He doesn't deserve to be getting 1st line mins, that's a failure on the composition of the roster. Sure he can have the last 10 seconds if there's a stoppage of a pp.

The flip Side is that you have high draft picks and you have to at some point develop them too. It might suck for a while but it is what it is. 

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, siddious said:

The flip Side is that you have high draft picks and you have to at some point develop them too. It might suck for a while but it is what it is. 

I agree.

 

There's a lot to be excited about with Kakko. More so than the other members of the kid line. He's made real visible strides (slow, but it's there), he's got a strong possession game, fantastic hands and edge work, and a great shot that he needs to use more.

 

I think he's going to get much better with a larger role.

[Phil]

49 minutes ago, Pete said:

I agree.

 

There's a lot to be excited about with Kakko. More so than the other members of the kid line. He's made real visible strides (slow, but it's there), he's got a strong possession game, fantastic hands and edge work, and a great shot that he needs to use more.

 

I think he's going to get much better with a larger role.

 

Of the three, I have the least concern with him. He has all the markings of a good NHL player. The points may never come, but you don't have to worry about him.

 

Same just isn't true of the others, especially Laugh.

[SaveByRichter35]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Flyers drafted him cause he was a high-scoring Junior player. Never translated to the NHL so he kinda changed his game. Strong defensive forward with limited scoring, but he's much more of an agitator than Fast is.

Basically what we should be evolving Laugh into since he clearly isn't who we thought we were drafting.

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Bro, you've known me for how long now? Marek. It's always Marek.

 

And I don't care how many Cups Kane has. He won them on teams years ago that were better balanced than this Rangers team. His teams were filled with "fuck you" players. This one isn't. Adding Kane to this group changes nothing. Tantalizing regular season, paralyzing playoffs. Guaranteed.

An Andrew Shawtype is kinda what they need. But, isn't Goodrow kinda that player? Maybe the next coach can utilize Goodrow in the top 6? 

 

I'm with you in that the Rangers need a bit more oomph for their top lines. Trochek was kind supposed to bring that. It hasn't worked out exactly as planned. 

 

But, I don't see Fast as an option for those needs. 

 

Maybe that Tom Wilson idea of yours isn't such a bad thought. How about TJ Oshie?  The targeted player doesn't have to be young  and here for ever. What a shame that Blais didn't work out here. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

I heard Blais got hurt reading the paper at home in his sitting chair.  

[Pete]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

An Andrew Shawtype is kinda what they need. But, isn't Goodrow kinda that player? Maybe the next coach can utilize Goodrow in the top 6? 

 

I'm with you in that the Rangers need a bit more oomph for their top lines. Trochek was kind supposed to bring that. It hasn't worked out exactly as planned. 

 

But, I don't see Fast as an option for those needs. 

 

Maybe that Tom Wilson idea of yours isn't such a bad thought. How about TJ Oshie?  The targeted player doesn't have to be young  and here for ever. What a shame that Blais didn't work out here. 

The more I think about it, the more I think the move is to bring in a fourth line center or broadzinski, and move Goodrow into the top six wing. He's the prick you're all looking for. 

 

Lafreniere Zib Kakko

Panarin Chytil Goodrow

Kreider Trocheck Vesey

Cullye Brodzinski Motte

 

This way, your top nine is set but your fourth line is your weakness and if you need to improve it, you're looking for a fourth liner and not for a top six winger at the deadline

[Phil]

I mean, it works on paper, but Goodrow isn't nearly as effective as a top-six player. It feels like a patch, less like a solution.