Mercogliano Rangers Expected to Sign Lafreniere to 2-year Bridge With $2.5–2.75m AAV

[Sharpshooter]

3 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

In terms of trades, Smith made the choices he had to make, but they all caught up with him.
Three that wound up being a huge part of them winning in 94, but really hurt immediately afterwards.

One that was beyond inexplicable and totally indefensible.

 

 

1)  Amonte for Matteau and Noonan.

I don’t put this all on him. Keenan pushed for this. Keenan was probably right at the time, and obviously Matteau scored 2 HUGE OT winners vs the Devils. And Noonan gave them size and physicality they needed and was a solid contributor in the ‘94 run.
But afterwards, neither Matteau or Noonan did dick. Both were gone back to Keenan in St Louis within a year.

And in the next 8 seasons in Chicago, Amonte had 6 seasons of 30 goals, 3 of which were over 40. 

 

2) Weight for Tikkanen in 93.

Panic trade to try and make the playoffs in 92-93. Weight hadn’t blossomed yet. Tik was an established 2-way center. He was very good for them in 94, but was gone to Keenan in STL in 95, and was basically done by 96. 
Weight blossomed in Edmonton into a 1C.

 

3) Marchant for MacTavish in 1994.

Marchant was just a prospect. MacTavish was great for them in that Cup run. But he left immediately after and was done.Marchant quickly established himself as a premium defensive C and went on to play nearly 1200 games and was huge for Anaheim when they won their cup.

 

4) Nedved and Zubov for Robitaille and Samuelsson 

This is the disastrous one. Panic trade to add size and experience after the Flyers thumped them in ‘95 playoffs.

Samuelsson was only average as a Ranger. Zubov was only 25 already established as an elite guy and went on to a HOF career.

Total loss there.

Robitaille was still a very good player and he’d still be a contributor and have good seasons and won a Cup with Detroit, but wasn’t awesome as a Ranger, would never approach his best again, and in decline.

Nedved immediately had a 45 goal, 99 point season.

I could speak forever on Petr Nedved.

They lost big on that deal.

 

You can throw in the deal they made for Kurri and McSorley that sent Mattias Norstrom to the Kings for honorable mention.

 

Granted they won that Cup.

 

But imagine the Rangers in 95-99 with Amonte, Weight, Nedved, Zubov, Norstrom, and Marchant… coupled with Mess, Graves, Kovalev, Leetch, and Richter.

 

Yeah, I mean the Rangers aren't the only team to empty the cupboard trying to win. A lot of times those 'win now' deals don't work, and they happened to in 1994. It just cost them big time in the long run as far as more sustained success. Hard to argue since they won it all, but they just bottomed out there in the late 90's after some good teams afterwards from 1994-1997.

[RangersIn7]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Yeah, I mean the Rangers aren't the only team to empty the cupboard trying to win. A lot of times those 'win now' deals don't work, and they happened to in 1994. It just cost them big time in the long run as far as more sustained success. Hard to argue since they won it all, but they just bottomed out there in the late 90's after some good teams afterwards from 1994-1997.

Smith did what he had to do.

Keenan screwed them in leaving after 94. He’s admitted it was a mistake he hugely regrets, because he had a really good roster that bought in, and he walked away for basically no good reason.

 

But if you’re close, you gotta go for it. 
 

I don’t kill them for the deadline deals in 94.

 

The Zubov/Nedved deal was just plain stupid though. 
 

And I hated the deal for Tikkanen.

Everyone knew Weight was going to be a really good player for a long time and he was exactly that. He may get into the HOF one day.

I loved Tikk. Loved him. Also, his interview with Trautwig, on ice, right after Matteau scored vs Devs in game 7 is one of the funniest examples of butchery of English I’ve ever seen.

But Tikk was 31 and a bottom-6 guy by 95-96.

Weight had 104 points that year on a shitty Oilers team and was only 25.

 

Id like that one back.

 

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Just out of curiosity, and I’ve heard the Nedved story before, but what specifically are you refer to regarding Messier’s actions.

 

Ill be honest, Mess has been retired and mostly out of hockey, so therefore irrelevant and off the radar for 20 years.

 

Eager to hear what you have on that.

He he was verbally abusive to players, he acted in a way that was detrimental to the team by forcing certain players off. He also had a massive ego and was very much a "Good for me but not good for thee" person. 

[mbob]

I recall things got toxic with Mess at the end of his first stint, too much drama back then.
 

Looking back I hated the Weight trade when it took place almost as much as I hated the Gartner one but once the results were in 94 I realized I wasn’t GM material haha.  But even this dope doesn’t trade Zubov in his prime .  

[Sharpshooter]

I will never not be mad that Gartner wasn't here for the Cup. One of my favorite players, and he should have been here for it.

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I will never not be mad that Gartner wasn't here for the Cup. One of my favorite players, and he should have been here for it.

Keenan was not a Gartner fan cause he was below average defensively, wasn’t particularly physical, and historically hadn’t been a big playoff producer.

 

Glenn Anderson really did almost nothing as a Ranger. Only thing I honestly remember was the SH goal he scored in Game 2 vs Vancouver. 

 

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Keenan was not a Gartner fan cause he was below average defensively, wasn’t particularly physical, and historically hadn’t been a big playoff producer.

 

Glenn Anderson really did almost nothing as a Ranger. Only thing I honestly remember was the SH goal he scored in Game 2 vs Vancouver. 

 

Yeah, he was basically cooked at that point.

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Yeah, he was basically cooked at that point.

Gartner had a couple more seasons over 30 goals, I believe.

 

Did he not?

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Gartner had a couple more seasons over 30 goals, I believe.

 

Did he not?

Two more, yeah. It probably would have been three if there was no lockout in 1994.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Sharpshooter

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Two more, yeah. It probably would have been three if there was no lockout in 1994.

Yeah

 

Thats one I really thought was unnecessary.

They should’ve just stuck with Gartner. They had enough veteran experience and leadership 

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah

 

Thats one I really thought was unnecessary.

They should’ve just stuck with Gartner. They had enough veteran experience and leadership 

As much as I hated trading Amonte and Weight, the Gartner deal was definitely the most unnecessary at the time. Keenan gonna Keenan.

[RangersIn7]

9 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

As much as I hated trading Amonte and Weight, the Gartner deal was definitely the most unnecessary at the time. Keenan gonna Keenan.

Keenan’s coaching career is literally 2 completely completely opposite halves.

20 seasons total as a HC.

 

First 9 seasons with PHI, NYR, CHI, he wins 

6 division titles, 3 President’s Trophy’s, 4 Conference titles, and a Stanley Cup. Never misses the playoffs either.

 

Last 11 seasons, from 95 on, never wins anything, has only 2 postseason series wins, and misses the playoffs 7 times. 

 

He really shouldn’t have left. He regrets it immensely.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Rangers have made a lot of bad trades over the years.  Luckily most of the trades they've made in recent years have gone well.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said:

Keenan’s coaching career is literally 2 completely completely opposite halves.

20 seasons total as a HC.

 

First 9 seasons with PHI, NYR, CHI, he wins 

6 division titles, 3 President’s Trophy’s, 4 Conference titles, and a Stanley Cup. Never misses the playoffs either.

 

Last 11 seasons, from 95 on, never wins anything, has only 2 postseason series wins, and misses the playoffs 7 times. 

 

He really shouldn’t have left. He regrets it immensely.

As he should. Wasn't he tampering with St. Louis during the playoffs? lol Obviously he has a legacy here just because of that one season, but imagine how grander it could have been for him if he stayed?

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

As he should. Wasn't he tampering with St. Louis during the playoffs? lol Obviously he has a legacy here just because of that one season, but imagine how grander it could have been for him if he stayed?

I’m not sure if he was negotiating then, or just after, but he had 4 years left on a 5 year contract so it’s immaterial. 
 

Keenan had a reputation for shutting himself off from everything but the team during playoffs, so it seems unlikely. But maybe his agent was if he had one.

I remember that the reason for his resignation was that the Rangers were a day late with a bonus payment he was owed. Which was BS. He and Neil Smith didn’t get along, and Keenan wanted total roster control and knew he was never getting that from NYR. 

There’s even some speculation that Keenan and Smith cooked up the scenario deliberately, knowing that they couldn’t work together, so that Keenan could go, and that the bonus payment, $620,000, was deliberately made late. But who knows?

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’m not sure if he was negotiating then, or just after, but he had 4 years left on a 5 year contract so it’s immaterial. 
 

Keenan had a reputation for shutting himself off from everything but the team during playoffs, so it seems unlikely. But maybe his agent was if he had one.

I remember that the reason for his resignation was that the Rangers were a day late with a bonus payment he was owed. Which was BS. He and Neil Smith didn’t get along, and Keenan wanted total roster control and knew he was never getting that from NYR. 

There’s even some speculation that Keenan and Smith cooked up the scenario deliberately, knowing that they couldn’t work together, so that Keenan could go, and that the bonus payment, $620,000, was deliberately made late. But who knows?

It wouldn't surprise me. lol Too bad that happened though. Too much bad blood there during a championship season. Then after the Rangers win the Cup, there was the lockout which pretty much destroyed the momentum the league had from it.

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

It wouldn't surprise me. lol Too bad that happened though. Too much bad blood there during a championship season. Then after the Rangers win the Cup, there was the lockout which pretty much destroyed the momentum the league had from it.

Keenan, IMO, has zero legs to stand on there. He should’ve shut his mouth, because Smith gave him the what he wanted by making those deals. Conversely, Smith probably should’ve taken a step back too, as Keenan made it work and those trades paid off in a Cup win. 

GM gave the coach his favorite toys. 
Coach did the job he was supposed to do.

They should’ve figured it out.

 

But I guess Smith felt that Keenan would just continue to pressure and insist upon certain roster moves and personnel, and Keenan knew he’d never actually get Smith’s job, which is really what he wanted.

Plus Keenan had gone through a similar situation in Chicago in 92-93, where he had  both the coach and GM roles, but was forced out from behind the bench and into just the GM role because a young Darryl Sutter was one of his assistants coaches and was getting a lot interest from other teams as a potential HC, and Chicago didn’t want to lose him, so Keenan got kicked upstairs exclusively. I think that played In too.

[Pete]

35 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Keenan’s coaching career is literally 2 completely completely opposite halves.

20 seasons total as a HC.

 

First 9 seasons with PHI, NYR, CHI, he wins 

6 division titles, 3 President’s Trophy’s, 4 Conference titles, and a Stanley Cup. Never misses the playoffs either.

 

Last 11 seasons, from 95 on, never wins anything, has only 2 postseason series wins, and misses the playoffs 7 times. 

 

He really shouldn’t have left. He regrets it immensely.

He got too high on his own supply. 

[Sharpshooter]

8 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Keenan, IMO, has zero legs to stand on there. He should’ve shut his mouth, because Smith gave him the what he wanted by making those deals. Conversely, Smith probably should’ve taken a step back too, as Keenan made it work and those trades paid off in a Cup win. 

GM gave the coach his favorite toys. 
Coach did the job he was supposed to do.

They should’ve figured it out.

 

But I guess Smith felt that Keenan would just continue to pressure and insist upon certain roster moves and personnel, and Keenan knew he’d never actually get Smith’s job, which is really what he wanted.

Plus Keenan had gone through a similar situation in Chicago in 92-93, where he had  both the coach and GM roles, but was forced out from behind the bench and into just the GM role because a young Darryl Sutter was one of his assistants coaches and was getting a lot interest from other teams as a potential HC, and Chicago didn’t want to lose him, so Keenan got kicked upstairs exclusively. I think that played In too.

Oh, probably. Details like that with Chicago I didn't really know or remember. He got in his own way pretty much every where.

[RangersIn7]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

He got too high on his own supply. 

Yeah.

Keenan wanted full control over all roster, personnel, trades, free agents, and draft picks, in addition to being HC and controlling what the team did in the ice.

Period.

Nothing less was acceptable to him.

[Sharpshooter]

This rumored bridge deal still hasn't been signed yet! Something could be happening!!

[Pete]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah.

Keenan wanted full control over all roster, personnel, trades, free agents, and draft picks, in addition to being HC and controlling what the team did in the ice.

Period.

Nothing less was acceptable to him.

Having a coach who's also a GM is such a dangerous scenario. I can't believe anybody agreed to it. 

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Oh, probably. Details like that with Chicago I didn't really know or remember. He got in his own way pretty much every where.

Yeah.

Keenan was a micromanaging control freak.

Needed to have basically absolute power over his teams.

 

In his defense in Chicago, he did have great success while doing both jobs there in the 4 seasons prior to being pushed into just the GM role.

 

They hired Keenan as HC/GM prior to 88-89 season.

88-89 CHI loses in Conference Finals

89-90 CHI loses in Conference Finals

90-91 CHI wins Presidents Trophy 

91-92 CHI loses in Stanley Cup Finals

They won 2 division titles in that span too.

Can’t blame him for being sore about losing the HC duties after that kind of success. In 4 seasons he literally did everything but win a Stanley Cup.

 

 

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Having a coach who's also a GM is such a dangerous scenario. I can't believe anybody agreed to it. 

That was a different time as I’m sure you know. You could get away with that then and be successful with such an arrangement. But those were the dying days of that in the NHL. Within a few years that was over. Milbury’s disastrous attempt at doing both jobs with the Islanders in 95-96 was the nail in the coffin. 
 

Have we seen it since in the NHL?

I don’t believe so.

[BrooksBurner]

The last time the Rangers won a Cup is so old it’s basically more off topic than the Saquon Barkley convo that got moved.