Mercogliano Rangers Expected to Sign Lafreniere to 2-year Bridge With $2.5–2.75m AAV

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah. I see you’re point.

 

But in all respect, you’re missing something.

 

These guys are used to being fed minutes upon minutes. For years and years. 
Normally they walk into a situation that’s very similar.

While I won’t say that a guy in that spot hasn’t ever suffered a cut in minutes, what we are seeing with him isn’t a cut.

Its an amputation. 
 

It’s irrefutable that guys produce more when they play more. 

I made this comparison already, Tyler Seguin.

 

And he's not the first, really. 

[Pete]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

He didn’t though. 
 

He was never getting, nor likely to get, that ice time to begin with.

 

Not under Quinn. Nor GG.

 

 

He was given chances to play up the lineup, absolutely.

 

That said, I've already said I would be playing him with Zib and Kakko.

 

I'm not a sure predicting what he will be, I'm just under no illusions and not trying to convince myself he's anything other than what he is right now and what he has already been, which is terrible. 

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

He was given chances to play up the lineup, absolutely.

 

That said, I've already said I would be playing him with Zib and Kakko.

 

I'm not a sure predicting what he will be, I'm just under no illusions and not trying to convince myself he's anything other than what he is right now and what he has already been, which is terrible. 

 

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

I made this comparison already, Tyler Seguin.

 

And he's not the first, really. 

Look at Seguin’s game logs from that 11-12 season.

 

They clearly made a commitment and a concerted effort to play him more, from the outset. And they stuck to it .

Then he rewarded them.

 

 

[Br4d]

16 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Like having a running game is important for a young QB?

 

I think it is a bit more like having a veteran QB for a young WR.

 

The Centers really control the distribution of the puck in most offensive schemes and having a vet there likely helps a young winger adjust to the speed difference in the NHL.

[Br4d]

This is not how you develop a #1OA:  https://elitesportsny.com/2020/09/02/new-york-rangers-projected-lines-for-the-2020-21-season/

[RangersIn7]

7 minutes ago, Br4d said:

This is not how you develop a #1OA:  https://elitesportsny.com/2020/09/02/new-york-rangers-projected-lines-for-the-2020-21-season/

Yeah,

 

I’ve said it’s hard to set aside the 1 OVA thing…. 
 

But the Rangers have done that in real terms.

So… you have a 3rd liner.

Who has produced like one.

When he’s never had to be that before. 
 

And he hasn’t forced their hand.

Which I know,,. That’s what everyone wants.

But that’s not what’s working with him.

Blahblahblah.

 

Its not about though assigning blame or making people wrong, or shitting down the kid’s throat.

Which is how this manifests itself.

 

Thats the lowest common denominator.

And it sickens me.

Its garbage human behavior.

Cynical as shit.

Because it leads zero places.

And yields universally negative results.

 

Clearly there are problems.

All parties have sucked at this.

Its nothing you can’t fix.

Fix it. 

 

[Br4d]

The biggest problem in my opinion is that priority #1 for the Rangers has been winning games since Lafreniere got here.  Nothing else even comes close to that priority and nothing that had the possibility of disrupting that priority was going to be allowed to happen.

 

Imagining what Lafreniere would have done with Zibanejad as his Center and real PP time is just an exercise in frustration, because that was never going to happen given the Ranger's clear prioritization of winning over everything else in the equation.

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The biggest problem in my opinion is that priority #1 for the Rangers has been winning games since Lafreniere got here.  Nothing else even comes close to that priority and nothing that had the possibility of disrupting that priority was going to be allowed to happen.

 

Imagining what Lafreniere would have done with Zibanejad as his Center and real PP time is just an exercise in frustration, because that was never going to happen given the Ranger's clear prioritization of winning over everything else in the equation.

Look… we can argue that forever.

Theres no telling what anyone would morph into based on circumstances.

And every other factor.

 

Im a firm believer that had no lockout come in 1994, Rangers could’ve won another one,

Or that the 97 Rangers, had the had Zubov and Nedved, would’ve been better than they were with Robitaille and Ulf.

But I cant quantify that. 
 

No one can actually quantify any of it, actually.

 

We just have to see what transpires over the next 2 years

[Pete]

2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Imagine comparing leapfrogging ADA to leapfrogging a 50 goal scorer and a $12M 100 pt getter (at the time).

 

Kreider wasn't a 50g socrer until Laf's 2nsd year LOL....what did he do as a rookie? What did he do when CK was popping in 50? A big fat

[Pete]

27 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The biggest problem in my opinion is that priority #1 for the Rangers has been winning games since Lafreniere got here.  Nothing else even comes close to that priority and nothing that had the possibility of disrupting that priority was going to be allowed to happen.

 

Imagining what Lafreniere would have done with Zibanejad as his Center and real PP time is just an exercise in frustration, because that was never going to happen given the Ranger's clear prioritization of winning over everything else in the equation.

How dare an NHL team try to win games rather than become a cushy landing spot for draftees. It's a huge problem. The nerve of them!

[Br4d]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

How dare an NHL team try to win games rather than become a cushy landing spot for draftees. It's a huge problem. The nerve of them!

 

Damn right!!!

 

Glad you see it my way.

[RangersIn7]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

How dare an NHL team try to win games rather than become a cushy landing spot for draftees. It's a huge problem. The nerve of them!

Lol

 

100%
 

But negative consequences very easily result from positive actions, and the intention behind them. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Kreider wasn't a 50g socrer until Laf's 2nsd year LOL....what did he do as a rookie? What did he do when CK was popping in 50? A big fat

Found @Keirik’s burner.

 

He scored 19 goals that year Kreider potted 50. A few gimmies sprinkled in there for sure, but that is not a ”zero” and it never has been. That’s just an irrational take becase you’re mad.

 

His rookie season was the weird partial Covid no training camp season. Everyone threw that year away for rookies. The next season Kreider had 15 goals by Thanksgiving. Laf could have netted 30 and not have passed up Kreider or Panarin. It is what it was.

Edited July 14, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Br4d]

If Lafreniere becomes very successful a large percentage of his goals will be gimmies.

 

It's one of the traits that stands out from all his juniors and international tapes.  The dude is extraordinarily opportunistic.

[RangersIn7]

12 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Found @Keirik’s burner.

 

He scored 19 goals that year Kreider potted 50. A few gimmies sprinkled in there for sure, but that is not a ”zero” and it never has been. That’s just an irrational take becase you’re mad.

 

His rookie season was the weird partial Covid no training camp season. Everyone threw that year away for rookies. The next season Kreider had 15 goals by Thanksgiving. Laf could have netted 30 and not have passed up Kreider or Panarin. It is what it was.

So then…

 

if he works harder, and improves, he should get more ice time and produce more, and you might actually be happy?

 

But improvement isn’t a possibility , cause he’s a 1 OVA, and he didn’t light the world on fire right away… so he stinks… so he can’t ever realize a fraction of that… and this is what he is… he will always stink… cause he’s not Connor McDavid…. And they said what they said… and who knows how much of that is purely for effect… but we KNOW it isn’t… cause we are the purest, most objective, most knowledgeable and experienced, thy word is law experts in terms of developing hockey players, and our evaluations thereof are infallible gospel. 
And it’s all plainly seen too. Cause we are there to plainly see it. On an everyday basis. 

 

All of this to me… is just like… Really dude… come on.

 

It takes 5 years guys. Before you know what you have. And guess what?

You can still continue to learn and get better.

Cause no one ever did that before.

 

 

Thats it.

 

The whole conversation is just ridiculous fodder.

And when we engage in it, uggh, it makes all of us look and sound stupid, at least at times.

Some all the time.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by RangersIn7

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Br4d said:

But don't you know that Lafreniere should have clearly outplayed Panarin and Kreider to push them aside and make an impact?  With no power play time?

 

We'd have to look at it more closely to know for sure but I'm betting Lafreniere is the all-time cock-blocked #1OA.

He barely outplayed Gauthier (goal wise) last season. With double the icetime,  more chances with the top players, this kid can't outperform anybody right now.  

 

Make an impact.  Be special. Add something. Open eyes. Carry a line. He's been doing nothing special since year one. The needle hasn't moved. 

[Br4d]

7 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

cause he’s not Connor McDavid…

 

 

 

This is a total red herring though.  The season Connor McDavid had just marked him as generationally better than his peers.  However he has had one of those seasons so far.

 

There are only two guys in NHL history who had multiple seasons better than the one McDavid just put up, those being Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.  There have been a handful of guys who put up multiple seasons similar but not better than what McDavid just put up, those being Phil Esposito, Bobby Orr, Steve Yzerman, Marcel Dionne and Guy Lafleur.

 

Nobody anywhere in recent NHL history should be compared to McDavid because it's just not there.  Sidney Crosby's best season for points scored is tied for 88th highest of all time.

 

If Lafreniere was given all the opportunity in the world *and* fulfilled his promise we would probably be seeing 45 goals and 120 pts as his topout season.  Because that's what you get out of an excellent prospect who hits on all cylinders.  The numbers that McDavid is putting up are not in  any way reflective of what you would expect a #1 overall to put up.  They're reflective of what one of the absolute best players in NHL history is likely to achieve during his career.  Leon Draisaitl is putting up silly number because he gets to share a power play with McDavid.

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Pete said:

He could have outplayed Jimmy Vesey and Colin Blackwell and even Kakko for a spot on the right.

 

What happened there? 

 

Tyler Seguin came into a Bruins org with Cup aspirations on the third line. His play forced them to move him up the lineup the next year. You make it sound impossible. It's not. 

 

According to you, Panarin stinks anyway. Golden Boy should easily outplay him, no?

 

 

When you can't beat this guy firba spot... well..

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Lafreniere is much better in the OZ than Kakko is at this point.  Kakko has an edge in transition.

 

The real problem with Lafreniere right now is that the Rangers see a different archetype for him that the one he developed as a younger player.  He was always a playmaker who then moved in and cleaned up the trash in front of the net in Juniors and international play.  That's not the role the Rangers see for him, primarily because they already have several playmakers ahead of him on the ice (Fox, Panarin, Zibanejad) and one guy who makes his living managing loose pucks around the net (Kreider).

 

GG wanted a checker who made plays from the corner.  There's just very little evidence that Lafreniere is good in that kind of role.  I don't care if you're a high draft pick.  If the team decides to change your role and your game everything else goes up in the air with that move.

This is nonsense. 

 

So, Gallant changed Lafrenières game, to a soft perimeter player who treats the puck like a grenade on his stick, because the Rangers already had players that played an aggressive, "greasy" game as well as having a few playmakers. Yet, all Gallant talked about was how he wanted more grit from Lafreniere and Kravtsov.

 

Gallant stunk, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want a player to play a weak perimeter game that Lafreniere plays. The guy who wanted his fragile Russian to take the body more, wanted Lafrenière to do the opposite?  Yeah, no. 

 

You're reaching big time for blame on the flaws of this player.

 

Kakko is the guy I'd rather give the puck to, to try to get something going. You know he can and will power though checks anywhere in the offensive zone. He won't fling the puck away as soon as he sees someone coming to check him.

 

He's been going to the side of the net without the puck. He was constantly battling by the crease after whistles. He doesn't give up on plays like Lafreniere.  The battle level alone makes him the better OZ player. Nevermind that he's better defensively too. 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

It's almost nonsensical to try to make the case that there's anything Lafreniere or Chytil could have done to force their way into the top 6 prior to last season.  They were both blocked by long-term professional players and one of those players (Kreider) had his best season ever in 2021-22 and not by a little bit, by a longshot.

 

Kakko obviously had the opportunity several times to become the RW1 and did not grab the job and run with it.

 

Last season the proposition of the kids getting 2nd line opportunities increased slightly as both Kreider and Trocheck were put on parity with the 5v5 time the kids line got, alongside a RW that changed over time in the first two-thirds of the season.  Then Tarasenko and Kane were imported and the status quo from earlier seasons re-emerged with all the kids back on the 3rd line.

 

In normal circumstances both Lafreniere and especially Kakko (4th season in the books) would have conclusively proven or disproved the notion that they were good enough to be top 6 players by now.  However those circumstances do not normally include a team on the cusp of contention as they walked in the door and unwilling to give them an open opportunity to drive the show.

I don't get why Lafreniere needs this clear path to the top 6, to produce as a top player? Again  he's had favorable matchups. He's on the ice after PPs more often and should be doing as he pleases with all this supposed talent he has. 

 

Didn't Lafreniere get the most icetime as Panarins RW of the entire roster, including Kane, Tarasenko,  Kakko,  Blais,  Goodrow and Vesey? 

 

So, the logic is that this gifted player can only play to people's expectations if given a top 6 role for months. 

 

Would a Tkachuk play weak and not force his was up from a 3rd line getting 14-15 minutesa night?? Would Laine not score goals and be extremely noticeable if he were on a 3rd line? 

 

Good players force the issue.  14-15 minutes a night with no PK responsibility,  should be getting better results.  Especially with the eye test. 

[Br4d]

Go look at Lafreniere's tape from before the draft.

 

He's a perimeter player who swoops opportunistically on goal.  That was there before the Rangers drafted him.

 

What he was not was a grinder in the corners making plays from there.

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Found @Keirik’s burner.

 

He scored 19 goals that year Kreider potted 50. A few gimmies sprinkled in there for sure, but that is not a ”zero” and it never has been. That’s just an irrational take becase you’re mad.

 

His rookie season was the weird partial Covid no training camp season. Everyone threw that year away for rookies. The next season Kreider had 15 goals by Thanksgiving. Laf could have netted 30 and not have passed up Kreider or Panarin. It is what it was.

A world where Pete is Keirik and Keirik is Pete could only exist in the matrix

 

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

This is nonsense. 

 

So, Gallant changed Lafrenières game, to a soft perimeter player who treats the puck like a grenade on his stick, because the Rangers already had players that played an aggressive, "greasy" game as well as having a few playmakers. Yet, all Gallant talked about was how he wanted more grit from Lafreniere and Kravtsov.

 

Gallant stunk, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want a player to play a weak perimeter game that Lafreniere plays. The guy who wanted his fragile Russian to take the body more, wanted Lafrenière to do the opposite?  Yeah, no. 

 

You're reaching big time for blame on the flaws of this player.

 

Kakko is the guy I'd rather give the puck to, to try to get something going. You know he can and will power though checks anywhere in the offensive zone. He won't fling the puck away as soon as he sees someone coming to check him.

 

He's been going to the side of the net without the puck. He was constantly battling by the crease after whistles. He doesn't give up on plays like Lafreniere.  The battle level alone makes him the better OZ player. Nevermind that he's better defensively too. 

Gallant didn’t stink.

Hes just old school, hasn’t evolved, and he became ineffective. He was right at the time he was hired. 

Then, time changed. 

 

But he’s a good coach.

Just not a great coach.

 

People need to figure shit out. And do so under challenging circumstances.

That happens as and when it happens.

In the meantime, you deal with it. 

 

[Br4d]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Gallant didn’t stink.

Hes just old school, hasn’t evolved, and he became ineffective. He was right at the time he was hired. 

Then, time changed. 

 

But he’s a good coach.

Just not a great coach.

 

People need to figure shit out. And do so under challenging circumstances.

That happens as and when it happens.

In the meantime, you deal with it. 

 

 

However GG has had the same progression 3 times in a row now.  Usually when that is the case the person has a pattern that keeps repeating and causes the problems.

 

In GG's case it appears to be that he simplifies everything when he comes in the door.  This takes the pressure off of the vets and they have a very good first year, sometimes a spectacular year like Kreider's two years ago.

 

Then he fails to adapt to the strengths on his team and the players fall back to earth over the next season or two and he gets fired again.

 

Letting the players do their own thing is very effective when they have been constrained in a system that didn't fit particularly well.  However it's not the be-all and end-all and you do have to give them something to coalesce around eventually or they're going to wind up all doing fancy pirouettes while the other team skates circles around them.

 

Note that none of this has anything to do with what happens next season.  If Laviolette has a worse regular season than the ones GG produced and the Rangers exit early in the playoffs nobody is going to care if GG would have done the same.  

[RangersIn7]

55 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I don't get why Lafreniere needs this clear path to the top 6, to produce as a top player? Again  he's had favorable matchups. He's on the ice after PPs more often and should be doing as he pleases with all this supposed talent he has. 

 

Didn't Lafreniere get the most icetime as Panarins RW of the entire roster, including Kane, Tarasenko,  Kakko,  Blais,  Goodrow and Vesey? 

 

So, the logic is that this gifted player can only play to people's expectations if given a top 6 role for months. 

 

Would a Tkachuk play weak and not force his was up from a 3rd line getting 14-15 minutesa night?? Would Laine not score goals and be extremely noticeable if he were on a 3rd line? 

 

Good players force the issue.  14-15 minutes a night with no PK responsibility,  should be getting better results.  Especially with the eye test. 

No

 

It’s just the recognition of the fact that you reap what you sow.

 

Hes tried to fall in line and just fit in.

And he’s found himself on the 3rd line as a result.

And wouldn’t ya know who won the pony?

 

Hes been on their 3rd line… and you’re surprised he’s giving them 3rd line production.

 

You don’t get prime, hand cut, dry aged, ribeye on an out of the box, supermarket, ground Chuck. 
 

And pretty soon, that goes stale. 

Except in these terms, the cow gives a fuck as to how he’s slaughtered, butchered, cooked and served.

And they know when something is up.