Mercogliano A Detailed Look at What the NY Rangers Are Getting in Veteran Coach Peter Laviolette

[Sharpshooter]

If they miss the playoffs entirely, we have bigger problems. lol At that point you're considering dumping guys let alone calling it an epic failure. To me, this is still a really good team that has had no direction for several years and should be going further than they did last year. If you want to say the prior season was mostly luck, you aren't wrong, but they created their own luck. Last year was just a total meltdown and a gutless effort.

[Ozzy]

No way this team misses the playoffs! 

 

Not only that, but I have a very weird feeling that last season was very reminiscent of the 1992-1993 season, where we under-achieved badly, by missed the playoffs totally with an awful regular season.  This time it was a terrible finish to the first round, but still a large under achievement nonetheless.

 

We know what happened the next season, after a coaching change to Iron Mike.

 

I'm liking our chances this season...we have the horses, and now we have the Maestro.

[Phil]

31 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

If they miss the playoffs entirely, we have bigger problems. lol At that point you're considering dumping guys let alone calling it an epic failure. To me, this is still a really good team that has had no direction for several years and should be going further than they did last year. If you want to say the prior season was mostly luck, you aren't wrong, but they created their own luck. Last year was just a total meltdown and a gutless effort.

 

If this team misses the playoffs, they're getting nuked. Gu-ran-teed.

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

If this team misses the playoffs, they're getting nuked. Gu-ran-teed.

If that happens, that would be a well-earned and justified nuking.

[Pete]

No team with Shesty, Zib, Fox and Panarin is missing the playoffs.

 

Add in some CK, Chytil, Wheeler, Miller, Gustafsson, etc.

 

I don't see it happenning without major injury issues.

[siddious]

Anything can happen, right? This teams been super fortunate with injuries. That won’t last forever.

 

this is the best coaching staff I’ve seen this team ever have. 
 

I’m expecting improvements all over.

 

im already so down on this franchise I can’t imagine a lower ceiling at this point. Give me something good for fucks sake. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

If this team misses the playoffs, they're getting nuked. Gu-ran-teed.

 

I don't even know what the team getting nuked looks like. Zibanejad and Panarin would be untradable even if they wanted to waive, because the only way this team misses the playoffs (barring injury) is if those guys suck. Or Fox. But they aren't trading Fox on one down year if he has it.

Edited July 25, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't even know what the team getting nuked looks like. Zibanejad and Panarin would be untradable even if they wanted to waive, because the only way this team misses the playoffs (barring injury) is if those guys suck. Or Fox. But they aren't trading Fox on one down year if he has it.

 

Kreider/Trouba in the NMC to NTC shift. Lafreniere. Goodrow and/or Lindgren?

 

You can make significant changes to this roster before you get to those two, though I tend to agree that if this team fails, it should be on them.

[The Dude]

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Edited July 25, 2023 by The Dude
Double post

[The Dude]

With the coaching carousel, by revolt of the team and their consistent tuning out of the coach. It's scary to notice how many coaches Kreider has been here for. 5 (including this coming season)! 3 of which are probably HOFers. 

 

If this goes south and that locker-room (once again) tunes out the coaching staff, the first guy that has to go is Kreider.

 

As useful as he is, he's a guy that hasn't taken on a captaincy, while being a main stay for 11 years and going on his 5th coach. The blame game needs to stop. The excuses have to end. This coaching staff is no joke. This crap about "too hands on" and "too hands off", is a never ending cycle. The next excuse will be "too restrictive of a system that the coach won't ease off on" .

 

Hopefully it doesn't have to get to that point and the players all buy in. I'm just preparing for the worst. I wanted Laviolette here for years. I'm on board. I just don't trust some parts of the roster. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

With the coaching carousel, by revolt of the team and their consistent tuning out of the coach. It's scary to notice how many coaches Kreider has been here for. 5 (including this coming season)! 3 of which are probably HOFers. 

 

If this goes south and that locker-room (once again) tunes out the coaching staff, the first guy that has to go is Kreider.

 

As useful as he is, he's a guy that hasn't taken on a captaincy, while being a main stay for 11 years and going on his 5th coach. The blame game needs to stop. The excuses have to end. This coaching staff is no joke. This crap about "too hands on" and "too hands off", is a never ending cycle. The next excuse will be "too restrictive of a system that the coach won't ease off on" .

 

Hopefully it doesn't have to get to that point and the players all buy in. I'm just preparing for the worst. I wanted Laviolette here for years. I'm on board. I just don't trust some parts of the roster. 

 

The blame game has to stop, but let's blame the one guy who is performing at or above his contract.

 

If it goes south, it would be because of things above Kreider's pay grade.

[The Dude]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

The blame game has to stop, but let's blame the one guy who is performing at or above his contract.

 

If it goes south, it would be because of things above Kreider's pay grade.

There's one constant in the excuse making and constant back and forth with the need for different coaching. That's #20.  A guy everyone says is a true leader and the guy everyone looks up to, due to his tenure. Yet, he won't take the responsibility of a C, because then he has to take some of the blame. He's been here the longest and he should be seen as a guy that is constantly failing. 

 

Panarin is performing at and above his contract. He's been here 4 years. You can't wait to get rid of him. 

 

In what way is Kreider living up to his contract and Panarin not? 

[BrooksBurner]

18 minutes ago, The Dude said:

There's one constant in the excuse making and constant back and forth with the need for different coaching. That's #20.  A guy everyone says is a true leader and the guy everyone looks up to, due to his tenure. Yet, he won't take the responsibility of a C, because then he has to take some of the blame. He's been here the longest and he should be seen as a guy that is constantly failing. 

 

Panarin is performing at and above his contract. He's been here 4 years. You can't wait to get rid of him. 

 

In what way is Kreider living up to his contract and Panarin not? 

 

Panarin has been the 2nd highest paid player in the sport. Now he's the 3rd with MacKinnon's contract kicking in. He's not the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league. He's not even top 10.

 

Not everyone is a leader. Zibanejad and Panarin aren't leaders and they get paid significantly more money.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

The blame game has to stop, but let's blame the one guy who is performing at or above his contract.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Panarin has been the 2nd highest paid player in the sport. Now he's the 3rd with MacKinnon's contract kicking in. He's not the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league. He's not even top 10.

 

Not everyone is a leader. Zibanejad and Panarin aren't leaders and they get paid significantly more money.

Bro you can't get out of your own way fast enough here. 

 

Kreider is a completely complimentary player who is of zero value without Panarin and Zib, but you keep shitting on them LOL. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. 

[BrooksBurner]

Just now, Pete said:

Bro you can't get out of your own way fast enough here. 

 

Kreider is a completely complimentary player who is of zero value without Panarin and Zib, but you keep shitting on them LOL. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. 

 

What are you talking about? I just said not everyone has to be a leader. I'm not going to trade a quality complimentary player well worth his contract if the primary knock on him is he was never named team Captain, and if we are going that route, I'm going to look at the higher priced guys who generally do fill that role on teams, but aren't here.

 

You're looking for stuff in my posts that just isn't there.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

What are you talking about? I just said not everyone has to be a leader. I'm not going to trade a quality complimentary player well worth his contract if the primary knock on him is he was never named team Captain, and if we are going that route, I'm going to look at the higher priced guys who generally do fill that role on teams, but aren't here.

 

You're looking for stuff in my posts that just isn't there.

I'm looking for common sense and it's just not there, so you're probably right.

 

You're talking about blowing up the locker room, but you don't want to talk about removing a player who would be of next to no value unless there was star power on the team?

 

Kreider should be the first one to go, because he's the most valuable contract and the most easily tradable and The guy who isn't worth having unless you have a functional power play which they wouldn't if they traded Zib and Bread LOL. 

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm looking for common sense and it's just not there, so you're probably right.

 

You're talking about blowing up the locker room, but you don't want to talk about removing a player who would be of next to no value unless there was star power on the team?

 

Kreider should be the first one to go, because he's the most valuable contract and the most easily tradable and The guy who isn't worth having unless you have a functional power play which they wouldn't if they traded Zib and Bread LOL. 

 

Someone else mentioned blowing up the team if they miss the playoffs. My point was it would have to be core players as the culprit for that to happen. Kreider wouldn't be the reason it happens. Trading him as a "blow it up" option would be like going home and beating your dog because you didn't get a deserved raise at work. The reaction doesn't fix the problem because you're still tied to the same shitty boss at the same shitty job. It just means irrationality has taken over.

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

What are you talking about? I just said not everyone has to be a leader. I'm not going to trade a quality complimentary player well worth his contract if the primary knock on him is he was never named team Captain, and if we are going that route, I'm going to look at the higher priced guys who generally do fill that role on teams, but aren't here.

 

You're looking for stuff in my posts that just isn't there.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about him not being named captain. It's been said he's pretty much defacto captain and has a lot of pull and attention in that locker room.  The fact that he's the guy that's been here the longest and has chased out a bunch of coaches by turning the locker room against said coaches is why you get rid of him first. He sets the mood of the locker room.  

 

IF they tune him out. My first instinct is to get rid of the leader.  Trouba is captain. Kreider is the mainstay and the supposed guy they all go to. Trouba can go too. All of em can. But Kreider has been apart of more locker rooms turning on their coaches than anyone in the room. 

 

Living up to his contract means nothing,  if he and the team don't want to be coached. 

 

Those who aren't big on Laviolette seem to want to point the finger of the core as the actual problem (and its a legit concern). Kreider is the core.  Longest term on the team. Probably the teams voice to management.  

[Pete]

41 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The fact that he's the guy that's been here the longest and has chased out a bunch of coaches by turning the locker room against said coaches... 

To clarify my own point, I don't buy this. You trade him because he's infinitely tradable. 

[Pete]

6 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Someone else mentioned blowing up the team if they miss the playoffs. My point was it would have to be core players as the culprit for that to happen. Kreider wouldn't be the reason it happens. Trading him as a "blow it up" option would be like going home and beating your dog because you didn't get a deserved raise at work. The reaction doesn't fix the problem because you're still tied to the same shitty boss at the same shitty job. It just means irrationality has taken over.

You need to work on your analogy game because they never hit. This one might be the worst one. 

 

You trade Kreider because first and foremost, he's a moveable contract, secondly the message sent would shake up the room immensely. He's the longest tenured and been around for all the fails. 

 

Thirdly he's a complimentary player who takes too many nights off where you don't even know he played. If he's not scoring a goal he's nothing. And he can't score goals without Zib, Panarin, Fox, etc.

 

Fourthly you (literally you) move him to elevate Lafreniere. His role is closest to what Lafreniere should be doing, much moreso than your whipping boy.

 

In no world do you try and reshape a locker room by keeping the guy who has been here the longest.

 

A tumor may be benign but if it's growing in the wrong spot, you take it out. Maybe he's not a cancer but maybe he still is part of a problem. 

[fletch]

9 hours ago, The Dude said:

With the coaching carousel, by revolt of the team and their consistent tuning out of the coach. It's scary to notice how many coaches Kreider has been here for. 5 (including this coming season)! 3 of which are probably HOFers. 

 

If this goes south and that locker-room (once again) tunes out the coaching staff, the first guy that has to go is Kreider.

 

As useful as he is, he's a guy that hasn't taken on a captaincy, while being a main stay for 11 years and going on his 5th coach. The blame game needs to stop. The excuses have to end. This coaching staff is no joke. This crap about "too hands on" and "too hands off", is a never ending cycle. The next excuse will be "too restrictive of a system that the coach won't ease off on" .

 

Hopefully it doesn't have to get to that point and the players all buy in. I'm just preparing for the worst. I wanted Laviolette here for years. I'm on board. I just don't trust some parts of the roster. 

The coaching carousel and the core vets in the locker room are good examples of criticisms that I have of the Rangers organization, and why I am tepid about the Laviolette hire.  The most successful franchises win multiple Stanley Cups within a window, say 5 years, which takes a kind of planning, organization, philosophy, and strategy for acquisition/contracts.  An alternative strategy is reactionary, with focus on maximizing the results in the next season - to adjust on the fly based on team performance and real-time feedback.  Long-term planning and short-term reactions aren't mutually exclusive - all franchises do both.  My take is that the Rangers continue to be too heavily weighed in short-term reactions at the expense of long-term planning.  After the initial excitement for playing for a new coach, why would long-term Rangers like Kreider think that Laviolette is going to have more than 2 years to build toward the Rangers being a Stanley Cup contender?  When times get tough and when the Rangers have an early round playoff exit, Rangers history suggest that there will be little focus on player accountability, and more focus on subtle changes to which players are rostered, line changes, coaching tweeks, etc.  Long-term Rangers can say all the right things without buying in to Laviolette being the answer - because history says he's going to be gone in 2 years.

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, The Dude said:

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about him not being named captain. It's been said he's pretty much defacto captain and has a lot of pull and attention in that locker room.  The fact that he's the guy that's been here the longest and has chased out a bunch of coaches by turning the locker room against said coaches is why you get rid of him first. He sets the mood of the locker room.  

 

IF they tune him out. My first instinct is to get rid of the leader.  Trouba is captain. Kreider is the mainstay and the supposed guy they all go to. Trouba can go too. All of em can. But Kreider has been apart of more locker rooms turning on their coaches than anyone in the room. 

 

Living up to his contract means nothing,  if he and the team don't want to be coached. 

 

Those who aren't big on Laviolette seem to want to point the finger of the core as the actual problem (and its a legit concern). Kreider is the core.  Longest term on the team. Probably the teams voice to management.  

 

3 hours ago, Pete said:

You need to work on your analogy game because they never hit. This one might be the worst one. 

 

You trade Kreider because first and foremost, he's a moveable contract, secondly the message sent would shake up the room immensely. He's the longest tenured and been around for all the fails. 

 

Thirdly he's a complimentary player who takes too many nights off where you don't even know he played. If he's not scoring a goal he's nothing. And he can't score goals without Zib, Panarin, Fox, etc.

 

Fourthly you (literally you) move him to elevate Lafreniere. His role is closest to what Lafreniere should be doing, much moreso than your whipping boy.

 

In no world do you try and reshape a locker room by keeping the guy who has been here the longest.

 

A tumor may be benign but if it's growing in the wrong spot, you take it out. Maybe he's not a cancer but maybe he still is part of a problem. 

Guys trading a 33 y.o. Kreider just because he’s tradeable is not the main component of a “nuke the team” plan. He’s not a “core” player. Career Ranger and respected? Yes. Not core and never has made it to that level, and I like and appreciate Kreider a lot more than either of you.

 

If he’s traded, it’d be because there’s no reason to keep him anymore and they can get value for him. A nuke it plan implies ripping it down to the studs and starting over. That means one or more of Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox, or Shesterkin are moved out because that’s how you clean slate. You trade core players who haven’t gotten it done.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Guys trading a 33 y.o. Kreider just because he’s tradeable is not the main component of a “nuke the team” plan. He’s not a “core” player. Career Ranger and respected? Yes. Not core and never has made it to that level, and I like and appreciate Kreider a lot more than either of you.

 

If he’s traded, it’d be because there’s no reason to keep him anymore and they can get value for him. A nuke it plan implies ripping it down to the studs and starting over. That means one or more of Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox, or Shesterkin are moved out because that’s how you clean slate. You trade core players who haven’t gotten it done.

If your premise for the entire argument is that he's not a core player who hasn't gotten it done, then you're wrong from jump. He's the epitome of the core player who has not gotten it done.

 

You have a hit list of guys you want to trade and he's not on it, that's cool, but don't try and make it make sense because it doesn't. 

 

If you're tearing it down to the studs, and you should, he's at the top of the trade list because you can get the most for him and he's that far over 30 and not part of the future anyway. 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Pete

[RJWantsTheCup]

If the Rangers decide to tear it down which I think is highly unlikely only players I see them holding onto are Fox, Miller, Zibanejad,  Schneider and possibly Chytil, Kakko & Lafraniere depending on what they do this season.   Everyone else would be made available.  And I only say Zibanejad because #1 centers don't grow on trees.