Mercogliano A Detailed Look at What the NY Rangers Are Getting in Veteran Coach Peter Laviolette

[BrooksBurner]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

The conversation was moving out core players... You decide to argue who was core and who wasn't. First of all, that's not the point, and second of all Kreider would be out anyway.

 

The answer to "why do I care about your comment" is, I shouldn't have. You're incorrect, and I shouldn't have given it any air. 

 

Don't beat yourself up. I sell views and content for a living. You just can't resist a little Brooksy.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Don't beat yourself up. I sell views and content for a living. You just can't resist a little Brooksy.

Beat myself up over what? 

[Ozzy]

You guys do realize this is all a moot point, because we're winning the Cup this season, right? 

[RJWantsTheCup]

17 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You guys do realize this is all a moot point, because we're winning the Cup this season, right? 

From your mouth to God's ears.

[The Dude]

16 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Regarding the Yankee comparison, I said the late 00s Yankees.  When those 4 were the only 4 left and in the twilight of their careers.  Yes, obviously they were superstars in their primes through their dynasty run.  But at the end they were no longer the best players on the team.  Semantics, whatever.  

I have to nit pick. Sorry. These players also WON championships and that elongates their stay and exaggerats their worth to the team. Though, I don't think any of them hung on longer than they should have, at the end of their careers they weren't exactly at the top of their games besides Mariano. 

 

The way the Yankees dynasty went,  can't be compared to the Rangers.  The Mets are a better link. The Piazza years and even the Cespedes run. Fell short, had long time pieces that were really good players, some had career years, but still came up short every year. 

 

But fuck yeah. Kreider is a core player. 

 

[The Dude]

16 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Don't beat yourself up. I sell views and content for a living. You just can't resist a little Brooksy.

You guys should start talking about each other's moms.  Like J.... nevermind. 

 

[SaveByRichter35]

4 hours ago, The Dude said:

I have to nit pick. Sorry. These players also WON championships and that elongates their stay and exaggerates their worth to the team. Though, I don't think any of them hung on longer than they should have, at the end of their careers they weren't exactly at the top of their games besides Mariano. 

 

The way the Yankees dynasty went,  can't be compared to the Rangers.  The Mets are a better link. The Piazza years and even the Cespedes run. Fell short, had long time pieces that were really good players, some had career years, but still came up short every year. 

 

But fuck yeah. Kreider is a core player. 

Fair enough.

[Br4d]

Stutzle had numbers very similar to two of our 3 prospects in his first two years if he is blocked behind vets and cannot get on the power play.

 

Last year he exploded but that was the Senators reaping their harvest after handing him the keys to the city the first two years.

 

This is similar to Jack Hughes progression.

 

You reap what you sow.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Br4d
Addendum

[Scott]

Or he's just a superior talent than (1+2)

 

Forget about the Hughes comparison he's on another level than both 1OA and 2OA.  There's so much shine in Hughes game it's not even funny while there's 0.0  in Laugh's and very very little in Kakko's. For goodness sakes Hischier outscored our 2 gems (combined!) last season too.  

 

We need to take the L and do the best we can to work with and around it.

 

Last season Hughes 99 pts

 

Kakko 4 years combined 98 pts (thank god he played with men)

 

Laugh 3 years 91 pts.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by jsrangers

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:24 AM, jsrangers said:

Last season Hughes 99 pts

 

Kakko 4 years combined 98 pts (thank god he played with men)

 

Laugh 3 years 91 pts.

[Sharpshooter]

We're depressed enough already. Stop it with that. lol

[Ozzy]

I have a very good feeling about this year coming up....especially about Laff, and Kakko.

 

 

 

[RangersIn7]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I have a very good feeling about this year coming up....especially about Laff, and Kakko.

 

 

 

I don’t love what I’ve seen thus far from Kakko or LaFreniere… but I try to keep perspective on them. 
We will see.

 

We know what we are going to get from our core, barring any injuries ( god forbid) or sudden drop in production (which we’ve seen no real signs of). 
But those two guys need to take a pretty big step forward. This team making a serious run has always been at least in part contingent upon getting good contributions from those guys. We saw it to an extent in 2022, when those guys had some nice games for them and looked very good at times.

The key is them getting to those types of games more consistently. 
 

I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom though. Neither have been impressive, but what they’ve actually done this far isn’t a surprise to me, but I had very tempered expectations of them. 
 

Time for them to take the gloves off and play.

Out of excuses. And running short on time.

 

Amongst the kids though, Miller might be the most important.

Plays the most minutes and has the most important role among them at present. His defensive game really needs to improve. Unless he becomes an offensive machine, you can’t be a top-4 D on this team and not be at least good to very good defensively. 

[Ozzy]

30 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I don’t love what I’ve seen thus far from Kakko or LaFreniere… but I try to keep perspective on them. 
We will see.

 

We know what we are going to get from our core, barring any injuries ( god forbid) or sudden drop in production (which we’ve seen no real signs of). 
But those two guys need to take a pretty big step forward. This team making a serious run has always been at least in part contingent upon getting good contributions from those guys. We saw it to an extent in 2022, when those guys had some nice games for them and looked very good at times.

The key is them getting to those types of games more consistently. 
 

I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom though. Neither have been impressive, but what they’ve actually done this far isn’t a surprise to me, but I had very tempered expectations of them. 
 

Time for them to take the gloves off and play.

Out of excuses. And running short on time.

 

Amongst the kids though, Miller might be the most important.

Plays the most minutes and has the most important role among them at present. His defensive game really needs to improve. Unless he becomes an offensive machine, you can’t be a top-4 D on this team and not be at least good to very good defensively. 

 

I do think that the kids' has been somewhat slowed with poor coaching over their short tenure.  But I agree, the shit hits the fan this season.  We absolutely have to see what they can be on this team this season.

 

Miller is going to be a monster.  I'm a huge believer in what he is going to be in this league, and that's a perennial All Star.  Both Miller and Fox are going to be staples in this lineup for a very long time.

 

I still feel that even though Trouba has his pluses back there, his contract is a big detriment to keeping the future bright for keeping some of the up and comers.  I think the boss @Phil hit the nail on the head when he said, we could get a guy similar to Gudas, who plays even tougher than Trouba, for less than half of his contract.

 

Laviolette being on board has me believing that this roster has all the ingredients for this to be a VERY special season.  To me, that's ECF or bust.  Anything less than that would be a disappointing to me.  That being said, I still think this roster is not perfect.  Albeit, every roster has it's shortcomings, and weaknesses.

 

But we have a very good team here right now, and this team is capable of winning it all.

 

 

[RangersIn7]

13 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I do think that the kids' has been somewhat slowed with poor coaching over their short tenure.  But I agree, the shit hits the fan this season.  We absolutely have to see what they can be on this team this season.

 

Miller is going to be a monster.  I'm a huge believer in what he is going to be in this league, and that's a perennial All Star.  Both Miller and Fox are going to be staples in this lineup for a very long time.

 

I still feel that even though Trouba has his pluses back there, his contract is a big detriment to keeping the future bright for keeping some of the up and comers.  I think the boss @Phil hit the nail on the head when he said, we could get a guy similar to Gudas, who plays even tougher than Trouba, for less than half of his contract.

 

Laviolette being on board has me believing that this roster has all the ingredients for this to be a VERY special season.  To me, that's ECF or bust.  Anything less than that would be a disappointing to me.  That being said, I still think this roster is not perfect.  Albeit, every roster has it's shortcomings, and weaknesses.

 

But we have a very good team here right now, and this team is capable of winning it all.

 

 

Yes. They need to contribute more, play more prominent roles, and here’s the key….be more consistent!

The biggest factor between being average vs good, or good vs great, or great vs elite, is CONSISTENCY!

 

If they can find that… it’s huge.

And I’m optimistic that they’ll get that from those guys. 
 

Miller will be more than fine I believe. He has a ton of talent, which he’s clearly shown. Has tremendous size, speed, strength, and length. Great attributes and skill set. 
He needs to improve his defensive fundamentals, which honestly already have improved. And he needs to find some snarl and be more physical. Has the size to do that. Remember when he stepped into the NHL in 20-21, he was 20 years old, did not spend a minute in the AHL, and didn’t even play D until age 16-17. And he was immediately playing 21 minutes per night, and made the All-Rookie team.

Impressive.

Hes going to be great. Already is pretty damn good despite his shortcomings, which are very much things he can beat.

 

Trouba is an issue. Not in terms of his play. 

Just the contract.

And the term is fine. It only runs through his age 32 season, which is great.

But his hit is $1.5-2 million too much.

I don’t buy the “he’s only worth $4 million” narrative because it ignores the real market conditions.

He was making $5 million in his last year in Winnipeg, was only 25 at the time, and had a career year. Plus he still had a year of RFA status with arb eligibility. Had he stayed in Winnipeg and gone to arb or taken a 1-year deal, he’d have gotten north of $6 million. People have completely forgotten, ignored, or dismissed that aspect. And you can’t do that. 
Taking that, plus everything else into consideration, on a long-term deal of 7 years, his cap number should realistically be around $6.5 million per. Total contract dollars of around $45-46 million. I could’ve lived with a max of $48-49 million.

Yes they probably could’ve gotten someone else who gives you similar things at $4.5-6 million. But they didn’t. And Gorton fucked up. Gave him too much money. He’s not an $8 million a year player. He’s not worth $56 million over a 7-year deal.

But he is in no way a bad player. He’s a good quality, top-4, RHD. Plus he’s physical, can change a game with his ability to hit hard and clean, and does provide decent offense. Plus he’s their Captain, and clearly has good leadership skills. 
Has value and is important.

He is a worthwhile guy to have. You just wish you had him at 20-30% less. 

But he’s not the Wade Redden signing, clearly in decline, overrated to begin with, 31 at time of signing, and given nearly $40 million for 6 years and carrying a $6.5 million cap hit, in 2008 when the cap was only $56 million and change, which is like an 11.4% hit vs your total cap.

It’s nowhere near that bad.

And he’s only got 3 years left. It’s tolerable and we feel it and bitch about it more because of the flat cap. 

 

It’s a very good team, with some very good pieces, in the right places for the most part.

They can beat anyone they play, provided the staff does the right things and they buy in and execute. 
 

I have high hopes. 

 

[Ozzy]

Phil Housley is going to be a HUGE help for K' Andre.  He has all the know how of a guy who's played at a high level for almost 20 years in the NHL.

 

As far as Laff, Kakko and Chytil....I think they brought in a guy who can make them tick properly.  AT first I was hell bent on Queneville, and for good reason.  The guy is a great coach and could fit here like a glove.  @The Dude help me see it from a little different angle, and I think Laviolette is a pretty fine choice right now.

 

His supporting cast is certainly VERY good, and the whole atmosphere of that locker room is going to take on a whole new feel with his "Hands on" approach.  I'm sure the players will take some time to adapt, but the goal is to make the playoffs, and that's very attainable even if they take time getting out of the gate under a new system.

 

I don't wanna get ahead of where we are now, 7...so let's take on the Trouba stuff after this season.  Right now we're pretty set on who our team is this season, and I'm very cool with this team. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I think the boss @Phil hit the nail on the head when he said, we could get a guy similar to Gudas, who plays even tougher than Trouba, for less than half of his contract.

Don't give him credit for my shit, bro.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Phil Housley is going to be a HUGE help for K' Andre.  He has all the know how of a guy who's played at a high level for almost 20 years in the NHL.

 

As far as Laff, Kakko and Chytil....I think they brought in a guy who can make them tick properly.  AT first I was hell bent on Queneville, and for good reason.  The guy is a great coach and could fit here like a glove.  @The Dude help me see it from a little different angle, and I think Laviolette is a pretty fine choice right now.

 

His supporting cast is certainly VERY good, and the whole atmosphere of that locker room is going to take on a whole new feel with his "Hands on" approach.  I'm sure the players will take some time to adapt, but the goal is to make the playoffs, and that's very attainable even if they take time getting out of the gate under a new system.

 

I don't wanna get ahead of where we are now, 7...so let's take on the Trouba stuff after this season.  Right now we're pretty set on who our team is this season, and I'm very cool with this team. 

 

You’re the man Ozzy but I need a pair of shades to read this level of optimism

 

 

[Ozzy]

47 minutes ago, Pete said:

Don't give him credit for my shit, bro.

 

Can I use the "I'm old and I forget shit" escape clause here?? 

[Ozzy]

42 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

You’re the man Ozzy but I need a pair of shades to read this level of optimism

 

 

 

A new slate for me, RMC.  I gotta look at the glass as half full!

 

I was watching the 1994 Game 7 re-run last night on NHL Network, and man....I remember how sweet that Cup win was!!! 

Let's do that again!!!

[Br4d]

Who is going to benefit the most from the change in coaching styles this season?

 

Not looking for a general "everybody will benefit" type answer.  Looking for specific players who are likely to uptick with the change in coaches.

 

Who plays a style that is recognizable as effective from Laviolette's prior stops?

 

Who is of an archetype that Laviolette has had real success with?

[RangersIn7]

14 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Who is going to benefit the most from the change in coaching styles this season?

 

Not looking for a general "everybody will benefit" type answer.  Looking for specific players who are likely to uptick with the change in coaches.

 

Who plays a style that is recognizable as effective from Laviolette's prior stops?

 

Who is of an archetype that Laviolette has had real success with?

If I had to guess, it’s a guy like Miller potentially. 
Or one of the 3 kids upfront.

 

Kakko plays the F2 game at RW that Laviolette really likes. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

If I had to guess, it’s a guy like Miller potentially. 
Or one of the 3 kids upfront.

 

Kakko plays the F2 game at RW that Laviolette really likes. 

Agree and would add Fox, Panarin and Lafreniere. Lafreniere not having to be F1 is big because he's not quick, but I can see him being able to read plays and be opportunistic. Panarin will also benefit for the same reason (opportunistic), plus having linemates who knows their position and roles.

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

Just now, Pete said:

Agree and would add Fox, Panarin and Lafreniere. Lafreniere not having to be F1 is big because he's not quick, but I can see him being able to read plays and be opportunistic. Panarin will also benefit for the same reason, plus having linemates who knows their position and roles

You’re going to see a lot of Zib, Kakko, Trochek, Chytil, Wheeler in on the forecheck.

That actually creates a 2nd level of guys like Panarin, Kreider, LaFreniere, plus specific use of guys like Vesey and Goodrow. 

With Fox, Miller, etc behind them. 

[Ozzy]

In addition to 7's and Pete's thoughts:
I may be reaching a little here, but I think Kreider is also going to benefit greatly from this.  His days of taking weeks off at a time should finally disappear.  He will have a role and a responsibilty under Laviolette.   Kreider should really have a chip on his shoulder, being one of the leaders of this team that basically disappeared and showed very little heart in last season's playoffs.