Mercogliano A Detailed Look at What the NY Rangers Are Getting in Veteran Coach Peter Laviolette

[Pete]

42 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

In addition to 7's and Pete's thoughts:
I may be reaching a little here, but I think Kreider is also going to benefit greatly from this.  His days of taking weeks off at a time should finally disappear.  He will have a role and a responsibilty under Laviolette.   Kreider should really have a chip on his shoulder, being one of the leaders of this team that basically disappeared and showed very little heart in last season's playoffs.

I pretty much agree with this, but when it comes to last season's playoff it kind of illustrates my point about him. When everyone else is going, he's a beneficiary. When no one else is going, he completely disappears because his role is completely dependent on other players giving him tap ins and pucks to deflect. 

[BrooksBurner]

58 minutes ago, Pete said:

I pretty much agree with this, but when it comes to last season's playoff it kind of illustrates my point about him. When everyone else is going, he's a beneficiary. When no one else is going, he completely disappears because his role is completely dependent on other players giving him tap ins and pucks to deflect. 

 

Kreider does offer some other things when he's not getting tap ins and puck deflections. He's not a zero on defense and he does PK effectively. That's why the "completely disappears" w/o context is a tired trope. Completely disappears off the scoresheet, perhaps.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I pretty much agree with this, but when it comes to last season's playoff it kind of illustrates my point about him. When everyone else is going, he's a beneficiary. When no one else is going, he completely disappears because his role is completely dependent on other players giving him tap ins and pucks to deflect. 

 

38 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Kreider does offer some other things when he's not getting tap ins and puck deflections. He's not a zero on defense and he does PK effectively. That's why the "completely disappears" w/o context is a tired trope. Completely disappears off the scoresheet, perhaps.

 

I do think that's another reason he'll be more prominenet for a longer duration this season.  His relying on others that will also be performing their role, in effect should impact Kreiders ability to NOT disappear as often.  Basically he's not a line driver, but he may just benefit from others doing their thing....we'll see, I just hope he doesn't go into those doldrums for weeks on end this year.

[Phil]

43 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Kreider does offer some other things when he's not getting tap ins and puck deflections. He's not a zero on defense and he does PK effectively. That's why the "completely disappears" w/o context is a tired trope. Completely disappears off the scoresheet, perhaps.

 

I mean, let's be real here: this is semantic as hell. Any guy who gets paid big money because he puts up big goals/points who "disappears," even if he does other things well, is going to rightfully get destroyed for it. Rick Nash says hi.

[Sharpshooter]

A coach who knows what the fuck he is doing and has a system and gameplan.

 

There's your fucking details.

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, let's be real here: this is semantic as hell. Any guy who gets paid big money because he puts up big goals/points who "disappears," even if he does other things well, is going to rightfully get destroyed for it. Rick Nash says hi.

Why is it semantic? Some guys do things without the puck when they aren’t scoring, and are productive. Others aren’t.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Why is it semantic? Some guys do things without the puck when they aren’t scoring, and are productive. Others aren’t.

 

I know. I'm not denying that. I'm saying that you can't expect people to not get their backs up when you offer a technicality.

 

I agree that Kreider plays other important roles, but he's not paid to kill penalties. He's paid to score goals and be a disruptive, productive top-six player. In the same way Rick Nash wasn't paid to be an exceptional defensive player. When you make big bucks, you can't just fall back on "well, they're not a liability." While that might be technically true, that's not going to explain away the frustration of fans who want the scoring "they" paid for.

[Albatrosss]

you guys putting too much faith into Laviolette.  

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I know. I'm not denying that. I'm saying that you can't expect people to not get their backs up when you offer a technicality.

 

I agree that Kreider plays other important roles, but he's not paid to kill penalties. He's paid to score goals and be a disruptive, productive top-six player. In the same way Rick Nash wasn't paid to be an exceptional defensive player. When you make big bucks, you can't just fall back on "well, they're not a liability." While that might be technically true, that's not going to explain away the frustration of fans who want the scoring "they" paid for.

 

I get that. I just think this is when it becomes a discussion about pay since that's what sets expectations for consistent scoresheet production. You say Kreider is paid big bucks to score, but he's not really paid big bucks. He's paid complimentary player money. Same as Trocheck. Nobody is going to ride Trocheck if he's scoring 45 points but showing up defensively and forechecking when he's not on the scoresheet. Nor should they. He's not paid enough. A guy like Nash from yesteryear was paid star money. Just the "other stuff" isn't enough so it fell on deaf ears to talk about his defensive effort.

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I get that. I just think this is when it becomes a discussion about pay since that's what sets expectations for consistent scoresheet production. You say Kreider is paid big bucks to score, but he's not really paid big bucks. He's paid complimentary player money. Same as Trocheck. Nobody is going to ride Trocheck if he's scoring 45 points but showing up defensively and forechecking when he's not on the scoresheet. Nor should they. He's not paid enough. A guy like Nash from yesteryear was paid star money. Just the "other stuff" isn't enough so it fell on deaf ears to talk about his defensive effort.

 

I mean, I guess, but again, this is a technicality. We're drawing an arbitrary line as to what defines "star" and what qualifies as "complementary," and that can change person-to-person. To you or I, who think Kreider's deal is entirely appropriate/commiserate with who he is as a player, this works. But if he's, say, a 35-40 point player (or playing like one), others may (justifiably, IMO) rag on him (or Trocheck) for not bringing enough. In a case like this, even though the sample size would be smaller, the players' play would be indistinguishable from third-liners who often make half or less what Kreider does.

[RangersIn7]

I don’t know that CK becomes a casualty until certain things come to pass:

 

A) The window closes and they tear it down

or

B) The production really drops.

 

Hes a guy who is legitimately getting paid what he’s worth, and as stated by others, there are several other aspects of his game that are valuable.

Hes an important and worthwhile contributor at a very good price right now. 
 

If they do get to that point, there will be teams that want him.

 

[BreakawayMachine]

Lavi is going to keep the seat warm and right the ship while we groom Muse for takeover. That doesnt mean we wont have success or a stanley cup, but I see Dan Muse as the future and the future will be bright despite some recent gloom.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, BreakawayMachine said:

Lavi is going to keep the seat warm and right the ship while we groom Muse for takeover. That doesnt mean we wont have success or a stanley cup, but I see Dan Muse as the future and the future will be bright despite some recent gloom.

What's behind this thought process? Muse is a skills coach. If anyone on the current staff is the future, I'd say it's Peca.

[BreakawayMachine]

Pure hunch based off nothing, I just like him as a coach candidate I guess lol

[RangersIn7]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

What's behind this thought process? Muse is a skills coach. If anyone on the current staff is the future, I'd say it's Peca.

Based on all that’s occurring and been said about him, provided that it is accurate, Peca will absolutely be an NHL coach someday. 
Sooner rather than later too. 
He is almost 50