The Athletic NHL Contract Efficiency Rankings, 2023: Which Teams Spend Their Money Most Wisely?

[Pete]

37 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Lol, the troll must troll.

 

The hardest thing is to score goals, not make assists. He's 3rd in goals while he's been here. 0 PK minutes and not a good defensive player. Makes almost twice as much as the top scorer on the team. A player you hate. Isn't that funny? You hate the player on the team that's best at doing the "hardest thing in the league to do".

 

Your entire argument for him being overpaid is that "he's played as a 4th liner". Literally the only argument. His points total equals around 3-3.5m, he's a top PK'er on the team and a leader. He played over 14 minutes per game last season. Can you explain why he's overpaid without using "4th liner" in your argument?

You're so far out there with either misunderstanding of what I'm saying or being intentionally ignorant, but either way we can agree to disagree. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Pete

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

There's a difference between talking about something for a couple of months and a couple of years. The Panarin contract became much more relevant after the brutal playoffs he just had. It's a natural thing to talk about right now. Trouba's contract was signed years ago and his play hasn't changed much. He was overpaid then and is overpaid now. Not really much more to talk about there.

 

When someone thinks Panarin is paid fairly as the 3rd best player in the league, while other thinks the contract is a huge albatross, there's a discussion to be had. Either participate or don't.

I'm participating, if you don't like the way I'm going about it then there's an ignore feature around here that I'm sure you can figure out how to use. 

[Pete]

45 minutes ago, Morphinity 2.0 said:

Go ahead, but everyone is fair game. 

 

I'm simply calling out the agenda of the gluten-free. 

[LindG1000]

52 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Ok. I've already said he's lived up to his contract so far, I even said he was a top 3 player for his first two seasons here. That's irrelevant in this discussion where we're talking about the players contract RIGHT NOW and how good/bad they are tho.

He's a 20-30 goals, 90 point player. Never scored 100 and he probably never will. He also does nothing else besides offense. Calling a 10g, 30p+, all situation player that averaged 14:10 TOI last season a 4th liner is the ridiculous thing here. Doesn't matter which number you put in front of his line. He's a valuable player so the coach will find him the minutes, especially on the PK. Doing all that plus scoring 10g/30p+ is worth 3.5m.

"GG played him on the 4th line so he's a 4th liner". Ok, he also played Panarin on the 2nd line. Should we pay a 2nd line player 11.6m?

 

If not for COVID, he'd have broken 100 with ease that season. And if not for Putin threatening his family, he'd have broken 100 points in 2021-22 also.

 

Look, let's brass tacks this

 

• Artemi Panarin is a 90+ point player paid like a 90+ point player.
• The 29-63-92 statline he put up this last season was his worst statline in four years.
• He did that with 56 even strength points on a team that was defined by their powerplay, and was at best a middling 5v5 team (17th in 5v5 Corsi and in 5v5 Fenwick)
• Further, the Rangers could be considered a "lucky" team at 5v5 (4th in PDO)
• At the barest minimum the Rangers were saved from worse statistical fates by a great goalie (xGA 16th, actual, 23rd). 

That much is factual, and it's the context we can use to look at all of this.

 

I don't think there's good reason to think Artemi Panarin wouldn't deliver 90 points+ again next season if he could do it while looking a step slower on a mid-range even strength team, doubly so under a new coach that stands to make this team better at ES. In fact, everything we know about Laviolette's system suggests that there may not be a player who benefits more than Artemi Panarin from it.

 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't cry whenever anyone says anything negative about Panarin, I call you out on your bullshit agenda that you've had since the day this season ended and I will continue to do so. 

 

There's there's criticism that's based in reality, and then there's your variety of criticism which is based on cherry-picked stats and revisionist history. 

 

Expecting the rate of declining production to continue as a player ages is now cherry picking rather than just pretty common knowledge. I've heard it all now.

Edited August 1, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

You're so far out there with either misunderstanding of what I'm saying or being intentionally ignorant, but either way we can agree to disagree. 

lol I'm directly quoting and answering to your post. I'm not misunderstanding anything. Feels more like you just don't have a good answer.

 

You said Goodrow's contract was worse than Panarin's. Your main argument was because "GG played him on the 4th line and we can't pay a 4th liner 3.6m". I showed you that he's not being used as a 4th liner.

 

So I ask again, can you elaborate on why Goodrow is so overpaid?

[RJWantsTheCup]

Panarin has dropped from 1.38 points per game his first 2 seasons here to 1.28 points per game to 1.12 points per game this season.  Still 90 points in a season is nothing to sneeze at.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

12 hours ago, Pete said:

What an absolutely reductive and ridiculous statement. 

It's scary when Pete and myself are so blatantly in lockstep on minutia.

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Panarin has dropped from 1.38 points per game his first 2 seasons here to 1.28 points per game to 1.12 points per game this season.  Still 90 points in a season is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Right. It's a gradual, and fairly graceful, regression/decline. That's a positive because some players just drop off the face of the earth.

[Pete]

49 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Expecting the rate of declining production to continue as a player ages is now cherry picking rather than just pretty common knowledge. I've heard it all now.

That's not what you've been doing. Own your actions. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Pete

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

lol I'm directly quoting and answering to your post. I'm not misunderstanding anything. Feels more like you just don't have a good answer.

 

You said Goodrow's contract was worse than Panarin's. Your main argument was because "GG played him on the 4th line and we can't pay a 4th liner 3.6m". I showed you that he's not being used as a 4th liner.

 

So I ask again, can you elaborate on why Goodrow is so overpaid?

He was being used as a 4th liner. Not really sure how you could debate that, when he was playing the center and there were three centers ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

There's no value in a 3.6M 4th liner. Play him on the 3rd line, where he's capable of playing. If you want to get your money's worth out of him, you can't put him on the fourth line because it makes that money poorly spent, hence the contract (not the player) a poor value. 

 

That said, I've been a defender of his for a while, but the fact is his metrics are terrible offensively and defensively. He brings other the things to the table, but the stats are not his favor. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Pete

[LindG1000]

32 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

lol I'm directly quoting and answering to your post. I'm not misunderstanding anything. Feels more like you just don't have a good answer.

 

You said Goodrow's contract was worse than Panarin's. Your main argument was because "GG played him on the 4th line and we can't pay a 4th liner 3.6m". I showed you that he's not being used as a 4th liner.

 

So I ask again, can you elaborate on why Goodrow is so overpaid?

 

Because he's awful offensively and awful defensively. 

 

Of our regular skaters, only one had a worse CF% relative - Braden Schneider. Goodrow was a full 3.3% behind any of our other forwards - the next worse was Tarasenko. In most possession, play driving, or meaningful defensive stats, he's somewhere between 17th and 21st on the list of skaters, and often by a decent margin over the next worse player.

 

30 points is nice production, but you'll get that out of Jimmy Vesey for a quarter of the price, or out of Tyler Motte for a third of the price.

 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

59 minutes ago, Pete said:

That's not what you've been doing. Own your actions. 

 

Yes it is. You're just too emotionally charged about Panarin this summer.

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Yes it is. You're just too emotionally charged about Panarin this summer.

Cool spin, but you're clearly the one who's still mad about the playoffs. And I called you out on it from the beginning, and it's still true. You're just projecting at this point. You can't go 5 posts in any thread without whining about him. He's rent free in your head. But I'm emotionally charged?

 

[RangersIn7]

The extra million bucks or so a piece that Panarin and Goodrow are getting vs over what they’re likely worth in true value is not the problem. Nor is it blocking them from acquiring some major asset. And both players play major roles and are of huge importance to again, what is a contending team. 
 

The cap constraints they’re under are due to the flat cap of the last several seasons, which is negatively affecting basically every contending team, league wide, right now. But it’s set to go away in 11 months. And Drury did what looks to be at this point, of filling his roster gaps effectively with what money he did have to spend. So it’s not anywhere near to a nightmare scenario. 
 

The main issue problem contract right now is Trouba’s $8 million dollar one. Which while in now way a good contract and was really a mistake , isn’t exactly an albatross, and it’s not blocking anyone either. 

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

The extra million bucks or so a piece that Panarin and Goodrow are getting vs over what they’re likely worth in true value is not the problem. Nor is it blocking them from acquiring some major asset. And both players play major roles and are of huge importance to again, what is a contending team. 
 

The cap constraints they’re under are due to the flat cap of the last several seasons, which is negatively affecting basically every contending team, league wide, right now. But it’s set to go away in 11 months. And Drury did what looks to be at this point, of filling his roster gaps effectively with what money he did have to spend. So it’s not anywhere near to a nightmare scenario. 
 

The main issue problem contract right now is Trouba’s $8 million dollar one. Which while in now way a good contract and was really a mistake , isn’t exactly an albatross, and it’s not blocking anyone either. 

 

This isn't really true, though. They're all "problems," they just vary in degree based on your preferences.

 

Trouba + Goodrow is basically Panarin's cap hit. I'd personally rank the "issues" here in exactly that order — Trouba, Goodrow, Panarin. Mostly because Panarin is still a reliable regular season performer who's play in it is key to getting the Rangers to the playoffs. It's painfully clear now, however, that he's only a guy who gets you to, not through.

 

The opposite is true of Trouba and Goodrow. They give you very little during the regular season but their style of play (and especially in Trouba's case) have major impact in the playoffs.

[BrooksBurner]

Every team has a Goodrow contract. Not every team has a Panarin or Trouba sized contract to worry about. That’s why nobody gives the Goodrow contract too much shit. Sometimes you’re going to miss and it’s significantly better to miss on a smaller cap hit than a larger one.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I think everyone is forgetting Panarin took less to come here.  The Islanders if I remember right actually offered more.  Not sure any other team would’ve paid Trouba or Goodrow what the Rangers did.  

[LindG1000]

24 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This isn't really true, though. They're all "problems," they just vary in degree based on your preferences.

 

Trouba + Goodrow is basically Panarin's cap hit. I'd personally rank the "issues" here in exactly that order — Trouba, Goodrow, Panarin. Mostly because Panarin is still a reliable regular season performer who's play in it is key to getting the Rangers to the playoffs. It's painfully clear now, however, that he's only a guy who gets you to, not through.

 

The opposite is true of Trouba and Goodrow. They give you very little during the regular season but their style of play (and especially in Trouba's case) have major impact in the playoffs.

 

Ehhh.

 

I'm not going to sit here and defend 2023 - all players not named Chris Kreider or Igor Shesterkin took a big fucking dump on Broadway - or the whole narrative that the points were there in 22, but the effort wasn't. But I'll say this much - Panarin was a fuckin gamer in Chicago and he was a fuckin gamer in Columbus. 

 

I think it's reasonable to attribute most of the issues around Panarin (and hot take here, maybe also Trouba) to Gerard Gallant and poor coaching. I'm willing to withhold my criticism of Panarin until I see him in an actual system.

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

Ehhh.

 

I'm not going to sit here and defend 2023 - all players not named Chris Kreider or Igor Shesterkin took a big fucking dump on Broadway - or the whole narrative that the points were there in 22, but the effort wasn't. But I'll say this much - Panarin was a fuckin gamer in Chicago and he was a fuckin gamer in Columbus. 

 

I think it's reasonable to attribute most of the issues around Panarin (and hot take here, maybe also Trouba) to Gerard Gallant and poor coaching. I'm willing to withhold my criticism of Panarin until I see him in an actual system.

 

Clean slate....FOR ALL!!!

 

Said it earlier this off-season...

 

By the way, guess who has tickets to the home opener on October 16th against the 'Yotes???

 

I'll give you a hint:

 

<---THIS FUCKING GUY!!!! 

 

[Keirik]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

Clean slate....FOR ALL!!!

 

Said it earlier this off-season...

 

By the way, guess who has tickets to the home opener on October 16th against the 'Yotes???

 

I'll give you a hint:

 

<---THIS FUCKING GUY!!!! 

 

I actually think there is more truth to that than you realize. I don’t care whose contract was A and whose was an F. The inmates were running the asylum. I’ll hold all judgements u til we see who flourishes and who flounders under an actual system. 

[LindG1000]

4 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I actually think there is more truth to that than you realize. I don’t care whose contract was A and whose was an F. The inmates were running the asylum. I’ll hold all judgements u til we see who flourishes and who flounders under an actual system. 

Nobody was running the asylum. The warden was sitting around collecting a check for whackin it to 2017-18 Golden Knights highlight packages.

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I actually think there is more truth to that than you realize. I don’t care whose contract was A and whose was an F. The inmates were running the asylum. I’ll hold all judgements u til we see who flourishes and who flounders under an actual system. 

 

Right on, Big Daddy!!!  They've gone a long time with pretty much no one steering the ship properly in my book.  First it was Quinn, which was a mess, and then Grandpa Al Lewis!!

 

Let's see what we can do with a real coach back there, and LOTS of supporting cast as assistants.

 

The girl came up HUGE today...I didn't know tickets went on pre-sale today for next season, so she sends me an email with the fucking tickets confirmation for the opener!!!

So, after I fall outta my office chair, I'm like..."YOU'RE FUCKING KIDDING ME, RIGHT???"

 

Now I really can't wait for this shit to get in gear!!!!

Edited August 1, 2023 by Ozzy

[Phil]

54 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

I think everyone is forgetting Panarin took less to come here.  The Islanders if I remember right actually offered more.  Not sure any other team would’ve paid Trouba or Goodrow what the Rangers did.  

 

It's unfalsifiable, but they absolutely would have. Trouba was a 60-point PPQB/triggerman who stepped up big in the wake of Byfuglien's retirement. He was one year from UFA. If he got there, teams would be tripping over themselves to sign him in exactly the same way the Rangers did. Guaranteed.

 

28 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

Ehhh.

 

I'm not going to sit here and defend 2023 - all players not named Chris Kreider or Igor Shesterkin took a big fucking dump on Broadway - or the whole narrative that the points were there in 22, but the effort wasn't. But I'll say this much - Panarin was a fuckin gamer in Chicago and he was a fuckin gamer in Columbus. 

 

I think it's reasonable to attribute most of the issues around Panarin (and hot take here, maybe also Trouba) to Gerard Gallant and poor coaching. I'm willing to withhold my criticism of Panarin until I see him in an actual system.

 

That's fine. We have no choice but to, but to this point, there's no evidence to support the assertion that Panarin is a "playoff performer," is my point. Until there is.

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

This isn't really true, though. They're all "problems," they just vary in degree based on your preferences.

 

Trouba + Goodrow is basically Panarin's cap hit. I'd personally rank the "issues" here in exactly that order — Trouba, Goodrow, Panarin. Mostly because Panarin is still a reliable regular season performer who's play in it is key to getting the Rangers to the playoffs. It's painfully clear now, however, that he's only a guy who gets you to, not through.

 

The opposite is true of Trouba and Goodrow. They give you very little during the regular season but their style of play (and especially in Trouba's case) have major impact in the playoffs.

Neither would likely be here though if you didn’t pay them that money. And I think we can agree that Panarin and Goodrow are pretty important. 

 
What you would have in savings if they were getting what they “should” would be probably in the $1.5-2 million range.

You’d have another bottom-6 player or bottom pair D. Not unimportant. But not greatly impactful either.