What Other Teams Were Interested in Mark Messier in '91?

[RangersIn7]

22 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

In 1991, what other teams, besides the Rangers, were trying to trade for Mark Messier?

To answer as best I can, it’s more like which teams were legit suitors for him. 
 

You can easily eliminate a dozen teams immediately, for varying reasons:

NJ, NYI, QUE, HAR, BUF, PIT, DET, MIN, CGY, WPG, VAN, SJS. Obviously in this scenario we eliminate NYR and EDM too. 
 

That only leaves 8 teams as even a possibility.

TOR

MTL

BOS

PHI

LA

WSH

STL

CHI

 

 

 

[Rangers1994]

10 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

I never bought that narrative that he was pissed at Dolan or the organization, honestly. The contract he signed when they traded for him in 91 ran through the 95-96 season and he got a big bump on a 1 year deal for 96-97, IIRC, and they weren’t going to give him the kind of deal he got from Vancouver. If he was pissed, it was because they weren’t going to pay him and made that known to him. 
He was looking for the biggest payday possible in a desirable destination in 1997. And he knew he wasn’t getting that here. Plain and simple. That was his last top dollar payday. And he knew that too. He did well when he came back to the Rangers. But not as much as he’d gotten from Vancouver. 
 

 

No.  Messier was pissed because MSG Management was acting in bad faith.  Why trust them when they lied about what they were offering him?

[Rangers1994]

9 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

There was definitely a disconnect between him and the higher ups, notably Checketts. He felt slighted in 1995 after we won the Cup and those negotiations rolled on long enough that he nearly missed the first game of that shortened season and there were rumblings that a deal with STL for Hull was on the table. It got messy. He didn’t appreciate the way the Rangers handled it. And neither did the pillars on the team, like Leetch.

 

You can watch a lot of it and hear quotes here:

 

 

Messier was never gonna sit out the first game which included the Banner Raising Ceremony.  He might sat out Game 2 and beyond.

[Rangers1994]

9 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

No, I do remember that.

Just saying that it was only ever over money. He wanted something like $20 million over 3 years at age 36-37. 

 

No it wasn't.It was about the way Ranger and MSG management conducted themselves.  They lied about what they were offering Mess.

[RichieNextel305]

4 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

Messier was never gonna sit out the first game which included the Banner Raising Ceremony.  He might sat out Game 2 and beyond.

There were questions leading into that game whether he was going to even dress. As unlikely as it seemed, it was definitely a possibility.

[RangersIn7]

Honestly don’t remember them

lying about what they were offering him. 
 

And are you referring to 94-95?

Or Summer of 97?

 

Cause it’s hard to say that Summer of 97 wasn’t about money when the only team to hit his number was a pretty shitty Canucks team and lo and behold, Mess took it.

Not saying that there was no disconnection. 
But typically if a vet like that who has known only winning takes a big deal from a poor, also ran type of team, it’s the money. 

[Rangers1994]

12 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Honestly don’t remember them

lying about what they were offering him. 
 

And are you referring to 94-95?

Or Summer of 97?

 

Cause it’s hard to say that Summer of 97 wasn’t about money when the only team to hit his number was a pretty shitty Canucks team and lo and behold, Mess took it.

Not saying that there was no disconnection. 
But typically if a vet like that who has known only winning takes a big deal from a poor, also ran type of team, it’s the money. 

 

I was talking about Summer 1997.  The Rangers leaked to the press that they upped their offer to 2 years at $10 million. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm, Smith stated that it was for $4.6 million for 1 year.

 

Hence, the Rangers and MSG management lied.

[RangersIn7]

9 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

I was talking about Summer 1997.  The Rangers leaked to the press that they upped their offer to 2 years at $10 million. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm, Smith stated that it was for $4.6 million for 1 year.

 

Hence, the Rangers and MSG management lied.

Yeah man, I don’t remember that. 

[Sharpshooter]

That was a terrible summer and truly the beginning of the end. Messier leaves in a bad way, Gretzky is basically by himself now and the franchise began it's downward spiral. Really too bad Mark didn't stay here, and I know Canucks fans feel the same way.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

That was a terrible summer and truly the beginning of the end. Messier leaves in a bad way, Gretzky is basically by himself now and the franchise began it's downward spiral. Really too bad Mark didn't stay here, and I know Canucks fans feel the same way.

That was the point where I think a lot of people started realizing what an asshole Mess was. He was always all about himself and all about the money. It showed when he left Edmonton, it showed when he left New York, and it showed when he came back and it was pretty clear he on his way to being cooked. 

[RangersIn7]

24 minutes ago, Pete said:

That was the point where I think a lot of people started realizing what an asshole Mess was. He was always all about himself and all about the money. It showed when he left Edmonton, it showed when he left New York, and it showed when he came back and it was pretty clear he on his way to being cooked. 

I’ve always felt going to Vancouver was about the money. He had a figure in his head and he got it, even if he had to go to a shit team like Vancouver to do so. Underhanded and dishonest shit the Rangers did set aside, he wanted that payday.

 

I don’t know about the Edmonton side though. They had been selling off assets, especially that summer with Anderson, Fuhr, and Kurri, heavily. 
 

And money and not being able/willing to pay cost them Coffey in 87. He held out cause he wanted to be the league’s highest paid D, and deservedly so. And they moved him rather than pay him. 

 Then they had to move on from Gretz because he was going to go to FA in summer of 89 and knew he wouldn’t get what he was worth from Edmonton. So “The Trade.”

 

Edmonton was completely disassembling and had been, by October of 91, moving assets out for 4 years. And it completely accelerated that summer.

So I’m not sure what exactly you mean Pete, when you talk about Mess leaving Edmonton?

Am I forgetting or missing something to which you might be referring?

 

But you are correct sir in saying that Mess was in fact an asshole 

Edited August 16, 2023 by RangersIn7

[Pete]

7 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’ve always felt going to Vancouver was about the money. He had a figure in his head and he got it, even if he had to go to a shit team like Vancouver to do so. Underhanded and dishonest shit the Rangers did set aside, he wanted that payday.

 

I don’t know about the Edmonton side though. They had been selling off assets, especially that summer with Anderson, Fuhr, and Kurri, heavily. 
 

And money and not being able/willing to pay cost them Coffey in 87. He held out cause he wanted to be the league’s highest paid D, and deservedly so. And they moved him rather than pay him. 

 Then they had to move on from Gretz because he was going to go to FA in summer of 89 and knew he wouldn’t get what he was worth from Edmonton. So “The Trade.”

 

Edmonton was completely disassembling and had been, by October of 91, moving assets out for 4 years. And it completely accelerated that summer.

So I’m not sure what exactly you mean Pete, when you talk about Mess leaving Edmonton?

Am I forgetting or missing something to which you might be referring?

 

But you are correct sir in saying that Mess was in fact an asshole 

He left the Oilers over an upcoming contract dispute. He showed he'd be willing to play for a shitty team if they'd pay when he went to Vancouver. He didn't leave the Oil because they sucked.

[RangersIn7]

28 minutes ago, Pete said:

He left the Oilers over an upcoming contract dispute. He showed he'd be willing to play for a shitty team if they'd pay when he went to Vancouver. He didn't leave the Oil because they sucked.

No.

They hadn’t sucked yet.

A Cup and a WCF in the 2 seasons prior. 
But the sell-off was already happening and let’s be honest, Mess was rightfully looking for a pay raise and he, like Coffey and Gretz before him, knew he wasn’t getting it from Edmonton. 
 

But I totally feel that Vancouver in 1997 was about the money. 

[Rangers1994]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

That was the point where I think a lot of people started realizing what an asshole Mess was. He was always all about himself and all about the money. It showed when he left Edmonton, it showed when he left New York, and it showed when he came back and it was pretty clear he on his way to being cooked. 

 

The Rangers leaked to the press that they upped their offer to 2 years at $10 million. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm, Smith stated that it was for $4.6 million for 1 year.

 

Hence, the Rangers and MSG management lied.

 

Messier always had said that he would have accepted a 1 year deal if it had been offered to him during the season.  But David Checketts and Neil Smith kept dragging their feet. 

 

Even Checketts stated that he made a bad call exiling Messier.

[Keirik]

It’s also important ot remember. Messier was still more than a point per game player when he left for Vancouver and a year removed from a 47 goal season. He clearly still had it. 
 

  He didn’t leave for a shitty Vancouver team. They had Mogilny, Linden, Bure, Naslund, Irbe/MacLean in net, etc. Plus Mess was basically allowed to hire Keenan so he got to get the band back together. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

The Rangers leaked to the press that they upped their offer to 2 years at $10 million. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm, Smith stated that it was for $4.6 million for 1 year.

 

Hence, the Rangers and MSG management lied.

 

Messier always had said that he would have accepted a 1 year deal if it had been offered to him during the season.  But David Checketts and Neil Smith kept dragging their feet. 

 

Even Checketts stated that he made a bad call exiling Messier.

All of that is great, but that's not why he left. He left to chase the money. 

[Rangers1994]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

All of that is great, but that's not why he left. He left to chase the money. 

 

It was the way MSG went about.  Had they really offered Mess 2 years at $10 million, Mess almost certainly would have grabbed it.

 

But they weren't offering $10 million for 2 years because they lied to everybody.  That was the final straw for Messier.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

It’s also important ot remember. Messier was still more than a point per game player when he left for Vancouver and a year removed from a 47 goal season. He clearly still had it. 
 

  He didn’t leave for a shitty Vancouver team. They had Mogilny, Linden, Bure, Naslund, Irbe/MacLean in net, etc. Plus Mess was basically allowed to hire Keenan so he got to get the band back together. 

It was a shitty team that missed the playoffs the year before he got there and only got worse during his tenure.

 

Plus the way that the C was taken away from Linden was kind of embarrassing given that he'd done nothing wrong. 

 

It was also the beginning of Mess's personal fall from top player... It was the beginning of the end. 

 

Add in the way he bullied players and forced players off the team set this franchise back quite a bit. His leadership is frankly overrated.

 

I was a huge Messier fan until I read his biography. Great player. Not so great human. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Pete

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

It was a shitty team that missed the playoffs the year before he got there and only got worse during his tenure.

 

Plus the way that the C was taken away from Linden was kind of embarrassing given that he'd done nothing wrong. 

 

It was also the beginning of Mess's personal fall from top player... It was the beginning of the end. 

Agreed about removing the C from Linden. I don’t really agree about them being shitty. They missed the playoffs by 3 points the year before he arrived. Not saying they were a powerhouse but shitty is a bit much. They were mediocre and you’d assume Messier would improve upon that. No one could know his arrival would be worse given the last two seasons in NY. It just didn’t work and Messier was aging. Time waits for no one. At the time though it wasn’t exactly a guarantee of this being the path it would go. 

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

It was the way MSG went about.  Had they really offered Mess 2 years at $10 million, Mess almost certainly would have grabbed it.

 

But they weren't offering $10 million for 2 years because they lied to everybody.  That was the final straw for Messier.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that and there's really no way to prove that Messier would have taken 2 years at 10 million when Vancouver was offering 3 years at 18 million. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Pete

[Rangers1994]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I'm sorry but I don't believe that and there's really no way to prove that Messier would have taken 2 years at 10 million when Vancouver was offering 3 years at 18 million. 

 

I don't think we'll know for a long time b/c it never existed. MSG management lied about it.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Agreed about removing the C from Linden. I don’t really agree about them being shitty. They missed the playoffs by 3 points the year before he arrived. Not saying they were a powerhouse but shitty is a bit much. They were mediocre and you’d assume Messier would improve upon that. No one could know his arrival would be worse given the last two seasons in NY. It just didn’t work and Messier was aging. Time waits for no one. At the time though it wasn’t exactly a guarantee of this being the path it would go. 

Sure but it's a master class in "the grass isn't always greener". He want the ticket paid, so he went to one of the shittiest divisions for travel in the entire league, and he admittedly regretted leaving New York. It was all about ego, it was never about hockey. That's a really shortsighted way to make decisions. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

I don't think we'll know for a long time b/c it never existed. MSG management lied about it.

And that couldn't be further from the point. He didn't leave because anybody lied, he left because he wasn't getting paid enough. 

[Albatrosss]

Mess took the money. Nothing wrong with that 

[Rangers1994]

Just now, CCCP said:

Mess took the money. Nothing wrong with that 

 

Mess had no other choice but to accept Vancouver's offer. MSG lied about what they were offering him.