Brooks Rangers, Peter Laviolette Need to do Right by Alexis Lafreniere to Reap Benefits

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Jdog99 said:

 

Forget that.

 

Lets speculate that Panarin will put up 80 pts at RW vs 95 at LW.

 

And that Laff puts up 60 at LW vs 40 at RW.

 

You'd be up 5 pts + laff actually materializing into something and more to come.

 

My assumption is that Panarin just has the talent and confidence to be more productive on his off wing.

I don't know how your accounting for a 20-point leap in production from Laf. 

 

Let's forget moving the team's best player out of his position. That seems like a better idea. Let's not try to fix what isn't broken. It's not like Laugh has been lighting it up on left wing, there's really no reason at all not to put him on the right side. 

[Br4d]

5 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I’m not sure I agree with your descriptions of Lafreniere or Kakko.

 

Do you have the numbers for Laf/Chytil, Chytil/Kakko?

 

It's about the same.  Kakko has 6 assists on Chytil goals.  Chytil has 7 assists on Kakko goals.  Lafreniere has 6 assists on Chytil goals.  Chytil has 5 assists on Lafreniere goals.

 

Here's Lafreniere's assists for 22-23: Kakko 7, Chytil 5, Fox 2, Trocheck 2, Panarin 1, Hajek 1, Miller 1, Schneider 1, Vesey 1, Harpur 1, Motte 1.

 

That's a quality lineup to work with.  Also, he has a strange number of assists to guys who can't buy a goal most of the time.  It's hard to have assists to Hajek, Schneider and Harpur in the same career, let alone season. 

[Pete]

He can help out the scrubs, too bad he can't help out himself or anywhere else. 

[The Dude]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:33 AM, BrooksBurner said:

 

Not to accommodate Lafreniere. That was a side effect. It was suggested to potentially make the team deeper and better at a position that's been dog shit since Drury errantly gave Buch away. There's 82 games in a season, and it baffles me that a vet can't be asked to go play 10 games on their off wing to see how it works out. They can try moving Lafreniere over again if they want, but I see that as an admission that they are unwilling to actually sacrifice anything, which is kind of a mandatory step when saying "do right by him".

 

Line numbers are a faux thing anyway for this team. The ES TOI distribution says the Rangers don't even have a 3rd line. They had a 1st line (Panarin/Trocheck) and Zib/Chytil lines got an even split. The main difference will continue to be special teams time. I still want Lafreniere slotted with Chytil and Kakko, and I don't care what line number anyone wants to attach to them.

I'm fine with pushing the kid line out there again, but ughhh. I just really didn't like Trocheck with Panarin. I also didn't like Kakko with Zibanejad and Kreider.  So, it's all gotta be scrambled up. 

 

Kreider- Zibanejad- Lafreniere 

Panarin- Chytil- Wheeler 

Othmann- Trocheck- Kakko 

Goodrow- Bonino- Vesey/ Pitlick 

 

Everyone thinks Othmann automatically needs to start in Hartford,  so maybe you can push Goodrow up to the 3rd line to justify that crappy contract.  Or Vesey if he's up for it.

 

I honestly think Lafrenière would click with Trocheck. That one trick pony can sling his no look pass to the middle after he curls upon entry and likely find Trocheck there ready to fire. Just need to figure out what RW could clean up on the rebounds. I'd say either Vesey of Goodrow. Mayyybe Kakko  

 

I also think Wheeler is a must have for Panarin and Chytil. 

 

Kreider- Zibanejad- Goodrow/Vesey 

Panarin- Chytil- Wheeler 

Lafreniere- Trocheck- Kakko 

Pitlick- Bonino- Vesey/Goodrow 

 

They really could use another RW. Preferably a guy with grit and capable of sliding up and down a lineup. A Greenway type. Nothing special,  but a big body that can skate and play pretty aggressive. I'm hoping Laviolette can get that out of Goodrow.

 

 

 

 

[4EverRangerFrank]

We need a reincarnation of Billy Fairburn. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

If they are going to keep the kids together they should probably play Panarin with Zibanejad and go with something like

Panarin - Zibanejad - Wheeler

Donut Hole - Chytil - Kakko 

Kreider - Trochek - Goodrow

Vesey - Bonino - Pitlick 

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

If they are going to keep the kids together they should probably play Panarin with Zibanejad and go with something like

Panarin - Zibanejad - Wheeler

Donut Hole - Chytil - Kakko 

Kreider - Trochek - Goodrow

Vesey - Bonino - Pitlick 

Before I start naming lines, I’d like to see who looks good together. 
 

That doesn’t look bad.

But I’m sliding Vesey up.

Not Goodrow.

There’s way more offense there.

More size too.

Plus better speed.

And skill.

Vesey is in your top-9.

And he’s not a weak link.

 

[Br4d]

4 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

If they are going to keep the kids together they should probably play Panarin with Zibanejad and go with something like

Panarin - Zibanejad - Wheeler

Donut Hole - Chytil - Kakko 

Kreider - Trochek - Goodrow

Vesey - Bonino - Pitlick 

 

That's two lines that are old as fuck and the kid line again.

 

You'd think maybe the Rangers would try something different given the way things have worked out the last two years.

 

Put another way: if the Rangers decide they have to trade one of the kids at the deadline the roster will just look old and tired at that point.

[Cash or Czech]

20 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

That's two lines that are old as fuck and the kid line again.

 

You'd think maybe the Rangers would try something different given the way things have worked out the last two years.

 

Put another way: if the Rangers decide they have to trade one of the kids at the deadline the roster will just look old and tired at that point.

 

Vegas' average age last year was 28.1, tied for 11th oldest in the league. The top postseason scorers for them were Eichel (25), Marchessault (31), Stone (30), and Stephenson (28).

[Br4d]

30 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

Vegas' average age last year was 28.1, tied for 11th oldest in the league. The top postseason scorers for them were Eichel (25), Marchessault (31), Stone (30), and Stephenson (28).

 

Rangers likely average age on the 21 rostered players is going to be 28.6.  I am giving Zac Jones the benefit of the doubt as the 3rd pair LD and assuming they will carry Erik Gustafsson as the 21st player most games.

 

Their likely playoff scoring leaders will be one of the kids at 22-24, Zibanejad (30), Kreider (32), Panarin (32).

 

They're no spring chickens at this point, particularly if they have to deal one of the kids at the deadline for any reason.

[Cash or Czech]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Rangers likely average age on the 21 rostered players is going to be 28.6.  I am giving Zac Jones the benefit of the doubt as the 3rd pair LD and assuming they will carry Erik Gustafsson as the 21st player most games.

 

Their likely playoff scoring leaders will be one of the kids at 22-24, Zibanejad (30), Kreider (32), Panarin (32).

 

They're no spring chickens at this point, particularly if they have to deal one of the kids at the deadline for any reason.

 

Plenty of other prospects to move to get what we need. Morgan Barron got us Copp. Saarela got us Eric Staal. Hunter Skinner for Tarasenko. Julien Gauthier got us Motte the second time. 

 

I don't know who you think we're getting at the deadline that would warrant paying Chytil, Kakko, or Laf for? Especially when we don't need to move them as the cap is ready to increase significantly. 

[Pete]

8 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

If they are going to keep the kids together they should probably play Panarin with Zibanejad and go with something like

Panarin - Zibanejad - Wheeler

Donut Hole - Chytil - Kakko 

Kreider - Trochek - Goodrow

Vesey - Bonino - Pitlick 

They shouldn't keep the kids together. 

 

Lafreniere/Kreider Zib Kakko

Panarin Chytil Wheeler

Kreider/Lafreniere Trocheck Vesey/Goody

Whomever is left. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

They shouldn't keep the kids together. 

 

Lafreniere/Kreider Zib Kakko

Panarin Chytil Wheeler

Kreider/Lafreniere Trocheck Vesey/Goody

Whomever is left. 

I don't think they should keep the kids together either.  I was responding to the post about keeping the kids together but not liking Panarin & Trocheck together.

[Br4d]

Trocheck should be the 3rd line center.  He's expensive in the role but he is also productive in the role.

 

The Rangers 3rd line gets about 15 minutes a night at even strength so it's not like he's being relegated to a much smaller role.

 

I'd go Kreider-Trocheck-Kakko and see how that worked out.  Trocheck takes a lot of shots and Kreider is in front a lot.  Kakko would benefit greatly from being on a line with two active veteran players.

[jsm7302]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

Trocheck should be the 3rd line center.  He's expensive in the role but he is also productive in the role.

 

The Rangers 3rd line gets about 15 minutes a night at even strength so it's not like he's being relegated to a much smaller role.

 

I'd go Kreider-Trocheck-Kakko and see how that worked out.  Trocheck takes a lot of shots and Kreider is in front a lot.  Kakko would benefit greatly from being on a line with two active veteran players.

I don't hate it but I feel like we have a true #1 line in Kreider-Zib-Kakko and breaking that up is a disservice to the team. Someone had mentioned Laf scored a majority of goals off rebounds and such earlier in his career if I remember correctly so potentially Laf-Tro-Vesey could potentially do the same thing without breaking up that first unit.

[jsm7302]

Panarin-Chytil-Wheeler would also give Fil the Thrill an awesome opportunity to break out.

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

Panarin-Chytil-Wheeler would also give Fil the Thrill an awesome opportunity to break out.

 

This idea feels pretty good!  I like that line combo...I think that one would be worth a look-see.  Let's see what Lavvy comes up with.

[Br4d]

5 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

I don't hate it but I feel like we have a true #1 line in Kreider-Zib-Kakko and breaking that up is a disservice to the team. Someone had mentioned Laf scored a majority of goals off rebounds and such earlier in his career if I remember correctly so potentially Laf-Tro-Vesey could potentially do the same thing without breaking up that first unit.

 

Kreider and Zibanejad are not the basis for a true #1 line.  They're very good together on the powerplay and shorthanded specifically because the two situations fit their combined skill set and they know each other very well.

 

They're not as good at even strength.  Zibanejad in particular needs a better LW feeding him.  He has the skills to score much better at even strength than he currently does.  Give him Panarin and he is a 50 goal scorer.  What the Rangers really need though is to develop Lafreniere and Zibanejad is the C to do that.

[Pete]

57 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Kreider and Zibanejad are not the basis for a true #1 line.  They're very good together on the powerplay and shorthanded specifically because the two situations fit their combined skill set and they know each other very well.

 

They're not as good at even strength.  Zibanejad in particular needs a better LW feeding him.  He has the skills to score much better at even strength than he currently does.  Give him Panarin and he is a 50 goal scorer.  What the Rangers really need though is to develop Lafreniere and Zibanejad is the C to do that.

Have you measured CK and Zib's production at ES and PP up against other tandems in the league? Please explain why they aren't the basis for a true #1 line as they have combined to score 156 goals over the last 2 seasons...(Stammer and Point had 155 over the same span), all they need is a RW.

 

Their ES numbers aren't good for the same reason no one on the team has good ES numbers. Lack of system and coaching.

 

Why does he need a better LW feeding him? Didn't you argue all summer that Panarin sucks? Yet now he's making Zib a 50G scorer?

 

Now, knowing that Zib loves the one-timer, wouldn't conventional wisdom say he needs a better passer on the RIGHT wing to feed him? Kakko or Wheeler fit that bill, not Panarin.

[The Dude]

23 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

That's two lines that are old as fuck and the kid line again.

 

You'd think maybe the Rangers would try something different given the way things have worked out the last two years.

 

 

At this point why do we care how old the line combinations are? 

 

IMO the kids have only looked their best while playing together.  I mean Lafrenière had all the ES goals!!.

 

But seriously,  if they are deployed in more situations than Gallant used them in, they can all still improve and put up some points. That line DID work, so Im not understanding the gripe.

 

The only thing holding me back on going with the kid line again,  is that Chytil needs a shot at 2C for a very long stretch.  I want zero part of Trocheck/Panarin until every other option has failed. 

[The Dude]

9 hours ago, Br4d said:

Trocheck should be the 3rd line center.  He's expensive in the role but he is also productive in the role.

 

The Rangers 3rd line gets about 15 minutes a night at even strength so it's not like he's being relegated to a much smaller role.

 

I'd go Kreider-Trocheck-Kakko and see how that worked out.  Trocheck takes a lot of shots and Kreider is in front a lot.  Kakko would benefit greatly from being on a line with two active veteran players.

Your line combination is not a bad idea at all. Kinda what most have been suggesting minus Kakko plus Vesey.

 

But remember one key thing. New coach. The deployment of these lines can be very different and change on a game by game basis. Meaning, in game decisions actually being made in accordance to who is playing well that night, or actual situational coaching.

 

So, to automatically think the 3rd line is going to get 15 minutes, may not be accurate. If the 4th line is effective and can be used in a defensive role, that could change everyone's icetime by a few minutes.  

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

Kreider and Zibanejad are not the basis for a true #1 line.  They're very good together on the powerplay and shorthanded specifically because the two situations fit their combined skill set and they know each other very well.

 

They're not as good at even strength.  Zibanejad in particular needs a better LW feeding him.  He has the skills to score much better at even strength than he currently does.  Give him Panarin and he is a 50 goal scorer.  What the Rangers really need though is to develop Lafreniere and Zibanejad is the C to do that.