Seravalli Rangers Paying Attention to Patrick Kane; Sike! No, They Aren't

[RangersIn7]

13 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I just don't see how it would be different.

 

Even if it was ok to play hockey recreationally, where you didn't get pounded a few times a game, how many people play 80 games of recreational hockey over a 6 month period?

 

All of the indicators (and the professional advice) suggest that having your hip resurfaced is a likely career-ending event and all the evidence so far bears that out.

I’ll further question though how much Jovo or Kessler had left anyway.

 

Kane didn’t look done last year.

Certainly not vintage Kane.

 

We will see how he might look after the surgery 

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I just don't see how it would be different.

 

Even if it was ok to play hockey recreationally, where you didn't get pounded a few times a game, how many people play 80 games of recreational hockey over a 6 month period?

 

All of the indicators (and the professional advice) suggest that having your hip resurfaced is a likely career-ending event and all the evidence so far bears that out.

Well, if that was the case the doctors would have told Kane that and he wouldn't be cleared to play.

 

It really hasn't shown to be career-ending for everybody, Hags lost an eye, Kesler had to get both done, Jovo was old. The Backstrom news it doesn't help, but again everybody is different. 

 

If anything, it ensures that he will come on a cheap one year deal to end the year. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, you're no worse than where we are now, which frankly is not all that bad... Despite the doom and gloom there is 90% of the season to play.

[RangersIn7]

He’s not playing 80 games

 

Hes playing 40 or so plus a playoff run. And that’s with any team 

 

Someone will take a shot on him

And it’s low risk for whichever team does

[The Dude]

I want nothing to do with Kane this season.  I don't want to put faith in a guy coming off of a surgery that nobody has recovered fully from. Not even at league minimum. 

 

The Rangers will rely heavily on him coming in and being Patrick Kane.  Just like last session, you can't blame them.  He's Patrick Kane! 

 

It's not going to go well. We know how this ends. 

 

Concentrate on acquiring a more durable player.  Someone will shake out soon. Theres always a player out there that wants out of where he is, or a team deciding early to pack it in. 

 

Ottawa is a god damn dumpster fire, with the GM firing and now having to surrender a 1st round pick for a botched trade between 2 other teams.  Gotta wonder who they decide is a guy that is a trim the fat type move. . Tarasenko or Giroux come to mind.   

 

 

Just say no. And No means no. 

 

[Pete]

31 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I want nothing to do with Kane this season.  I don't want to put faith in a guy coming off of a surgery that nobody has recovered fully from. Not even at league minimum. 

 

The Rangers will rely heavily on him coming in and being Patrick Kane.  Just like last session, you can't blame them.  He's Patrick Kane! 

 

It's not going to go well. We know how this ends. 

 

Concentrate on acquiring a more durable player.  Someone will shake out soon. Theres always a player out there that wants out of where he is, or a team deciding early to pack it in. 

 

Ottawa is a god damn dumpster fire, with the GM firing and now having to surrender a 1st round pick for a botched trade between 2 other teams.  Gotta wonder who they decide is a guy that is a trim the fat type move. . Tarasenko or Giroux come to mind.   

 

 

Just say no. And No means no. 

 

I think everyone at this point is educated enough to know that he's not going to be vintage Kane. That's not a concern for me. My concern is we need a top six winger, and he's not it. Middle six is optimistic. 

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I want nothing to do with Kane this season.  I don't want to put faith in a guy coming off of a surgery that nobody has recovered fully from. Not even at league minimum. 

 

The Rangers will rely heavily on him coming in and being Patrick Kane.  Just like last session, you can't blame them.  He's Patrick Kane! 

 

It's not going to go well. We know how this ends. 

 

Concentrate on acquiring a more durable player.  Someone will shake out soon. Theres always a player out there that wants out of where he is, or a team deciding early to pack it in. 

 

Ottawa is a god damn dumpster fire, with the GM firing and now having to surrender a 1st round pick for a botched trade between 2 other teams.  Gotta wonder who they decide is a guy that is a trim the fat type move. . Tarasenko or Giroux come to mind.   

 

 

Just say no. And No means no. 

 

Don’t kill Dorian on that.

As you said, the bitch occurred elsewhere and it’s a new owner and new Administration above Dorion. 

Hes actually done ok last few years. But the new bosses are gonna want their own guys. 

Not been outstanding… but they’re improving largely because of guys he’s acquired via draft and trade. And he did it all under Melnyk who was universally considered the worst owner in the sport.
 

I digress…

 

Yes. They’ll be other options available that won’t have his question marks.

I don’t have a problem with them looking at him. 
But it’s not a video game.

If it’s not good, look elsewhere 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by RangersIn7

[RichieNextel305]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I think everyone at this point is educated enough to know that he's not going to be vintage Kane. That's not a concern for me. My concern is we need a top six winger, and he's not it. Middle six is optimistic. 

Am I the only who thought Kane wasn’t bad here? 5 goals, 12 points in 18 games is 22 goals and 32 assists over 82 games. If he comes back, I would venture a guess and say it would be with 60 games left. That is 17 goals and 23 assists. Like Pete said, we need some middle six help in terms of production. Numbers like that are middle six numbers, and his contract would in all likelihood be irrelevant for this season, and it wouldn’t cost us anything draft pick or prospect wise.

[The Dude]

24 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Don’t kill Dorian on that.

As you said, the bitch occurred elsewhere and it’s a new owner and new Administration above Dorion. 

Hes actually done ok last few years. But the new bosses are gonna want their own guys. 

Not been outstanding… but they’re improving largely because of guys he’s acquired via draft and trade. And he did it all under Melnyk who was universally considered the worst owner in the sport.
 

I digress…

 

Yes. They’ll be other options available that won’t have his question marks.

I don’t have a problem with them looking at him. 
But it’s not a video game.

If it’s not good, look elsewhere 

 

 

I mean the owner didn't fail to include the proper no trade list...  The penalty was ridiculous IMO and otherwise he's done a good job. It doesn't change the fact that Ottawa is continually just a mess and is likely heading down that familiar territory after axing the GM. 

 

 

[The Dude]

1 minute ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Am I the only who thought Kane wasn’t bad here? 5 goals, 12 points in 18 games is 22 goals and 32 assists over 82 games. If he comes back, I would venture a guess and say it would be with 60 games left. That is 17 goals and 23 assists. Like Pete said, we need some middle six help in terms of production. Numbers like that are middle six numbers, and his contract would in all likelihood be irrelevant for this season, and it wouldn’t cost us anything draft pick or prospect wise.

 

I think I'm the only one who thought he was really,  really bad most of his time here. Flash here, flash there, but overall he looked uninterested in back checking or giving any type of 2nd effort. Forget it if he had a giveaway. He'd pretty much just stand there or coast to the bench. 

 

I also think there was a culture shock for him, coming into such a loose system with a lack of hands on coaching or system. 

[RichieNextel305]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

I think I'm the only one who thought he was really,  really bad most of his time here. Flash here, flash there, but overall he looked uninterested in back checking or giving any type of 2nd effort. Forget it if he had a giveaway. He'd pretty much just stand there or coast to the bench. 

 

I also think there was a culture shock for him, coming into such a loose system with a lack of hands on coaching or system. 

I think he’s “healthier” post-surgery than whatever shape he came in here last deadline. And I think we all maybe were expecting vintage Kane. Just not the case anymore.

 

But on a team that already has a winger primed for 100+ points, another looking at over 40+ goals and a defenseman staring at potentially 70+ points, we don’t need Kane to come in and be vintage Kane. 

[RangersIn7]

40 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

I think I'm the only one who thought he was really,  really bad most of his time here. Flash here, flash there, but overall he looked uninterested in back checking or giving any type of 2nd effort. Forget it if he had a giveaway. He'd pretty much just stand there or coast to the bench. 

 

I also think there was a culture shock for him, coming into such a loose system with a lack of hands on coaching or system. 

 

31 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I think he’s “healthier” post-surgery than whatever shape he came in here last deadline. And I think we all maybe were expecting vintage Kane. Just not the case anymore.

 

But on a team that already has a winger primed for 100+ points, another looking at over 40+ goals and a defenseman staring at potentially 70+ points, we don’t need Kane to come in and be vintage Kane. 

I think it’s really hard to evaluate a player like him on that small of a sample with no coaching or real practice time, when he’s in need of major surgery.

They wouldn’t need vintage Kane.

They aren’t acquiring that player.

And that was the case last year too.

He’ll be playing somewhere though. 
 

 

It’s a big question, with not huge risk.

It’s just a question what the doctors say and how he looks.

But he definitely lands somewhere 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by RangersIn7

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I think he’s “healthier” post-surgery than whatever shape he came in here last deadline. And I think we all maybe were expecting vintage Kane. Just not the case anymore.

 

But on a team that already has a winger primed for 100+ points, another looking at over 40+ goals and a defenseman staring at potentially 70+ points, we don’t need Kane to come in and be vintage Kane. 

 

With no player ever returning from said surgery,  I'm not so sure he would be "healthier ". You'd think the other players would have been able to push through it. This is where the "everyone is different " part comes in. Something I don't want to bank on. 

 

As far as what the Rangers would expect from him. They need a top 6 guy. If you're bringing in Kane, it's in hopes he's very close to being himself.  You inset him into the lineup and his linemates are going to bank on him carrying the line. I don't want to harp on last season (because of the new coaching staff makes a difference between then and now), but this  team or any team is going to sit back and wait for Kane to take over. He was that good,  that the respect level demands it. The Rangers did that and the players kind of admitted that last year, in saying they were waiting for someone else to do something (paraphrasing) in the playoffs.  

[RichieNextel305]

You really think we need another legitimate Top-6 forward? Kreider is going to post over 40 goals. Zibanejad likely will hover around there. Panarin is looking at 100 points. Lafreniere likely will do over 20 goals for the first time in his career. Chytil is off to a slow start after missing most of camp, but I expect him to turn it on at some point. To me, that is a ton of production in the Top-6. If Kane were to hypothetically come in and play there, even at 70% of what he was, he still would find his cookies and create and have his moments. He wouldn’t *have* to push the offense the way he did in his prime. And that goes not just for him, but for any potential upgrades we would ever look to make up there. I certainly think he would produce more there than Kakko or Wheeler would if given the chance to play there. Or, even if you have him play on the 3rd line with Trocheck and any combination of Cuylle, Kakko, etc., I believe he would be able to contribute some there as well. Again, not at vintage Kane levels. But for someone who may slide in and take the salary of a potential causality in maybe Pitlick and won’t cost us a pick or a prospect, I would certainly entertain rolling the dice on him to see what we can get.

Edited November 2, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

You really think we need another legitimate Top-6 forward? Kreider is going to post over 40 goals. Zibanejad likely will hover around there. Panarin is looking at 100 points. Lafreniere likely will do over 20 goals for the first time in his career. Chytil is off to a slow start after missing most of camp, but I expect him to turn it on at some point. To me, that is a ton of production in the Top-6. If Kane were to hypothetically come in and play there, even at 70% of what he was, he still would find his cookies and create and have his moments. He wouldn’t *have* to push the offense the way he did in his prime. And that goes not just for him, but for any potential upgrades we would ever look to make up there. I certainly think he would produce more there than Kakko or Wheeler would if given the chance to play there. Or, even if you have him play on the 3rd line with Trocheck and any combination of Cuylle, Kakko, etc., I believe he would be able to contribute some there as well. Again, not at vintage Kane levels. But for someone who may slide in and take the salary of a potential causality in maybe Pitlick and won’t cost us a pick or a prospect, I would certainly entertain rolling the dice on him to see what we can get.

There are going to be injuries. Thete are going to be slumps. There's going to be questions about a line or 2 pulling their weight. 

 

With Wheeler taking his sweet ass time getting up to par and Kakko doing the same, I have to want a stable, reliable winger brought in for every reason I just stated.

 

If they are bringing in another winger, it's out of necessity.  --Unless Wheeler and Kakko just happen to put it together...--- Then, you don't need Kane.

 

If they don't.... You need something sturdy and reliable. Right now. Kane isn't that. 

 

Maybe next year, depending on how he looks and feels this year. Let Wheeler walk and backfill with Kane if and only if Othmann isn't ready. Othmann slides in perfectly in a 3rd line role (I myself feel he can play in that type of role as a somewhat versatile player that can play a skill game, but also bang here and there, as well as PK-  which he HAS done in Jrs and in pre season with the Rangers).  Then again I don't even know what position they have him playing in Hartford. Hopefully it's RW. 

 

I'm over the Kane thing. I was last year too. He's not Patrick Kane anymore.  Why bother? 

[Br4d]

5 hours ago, The Dude said:

 

but this  team or any team is going to sit back and wait for Kane to take over. He was that good,  that the respect level demands it. The Rangers did that and the players kind of admitted that last year, in saying they were waiting for someone else to do something (paraphrasing) in the playoffs.  

 

Teams that are capable of winning a cup don't do this.  They have 3 or 4 guys that are going to do what they're going to do come hell or high water.

 

At best the Rangers had two guys like that in the playoffs last season: Igor and Kreider, and once they stopped getting the whistles they didn't have Kreider.

[Keirik]

They don't need anyone for the top 6. Hell, Wheeler isn't being used in the top 6 in part because they don't need him there and in part because he's better fit in a supporting role while our top 2 draft picks are best used in the top 6 for now and for the future.  Last year I think Drury learned that having too many cooks in the kitchen is a bad thing.

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

They don't need anyone for the top 6. Hell, Wheeler isn't being used in the top 6 in part because they don't need him there and in part because he's better fit in a supporting role while our top 2 draft picks are best used in the top 6 for now and for the future.  Last year I think Drury learned that having too many cooks in the kitchen is a bad thing.

I think it's more that Wheeler isn't in the top six because he stinks. 

[Keirik]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think it's more that Wheeler isn't in the top six because he stinks. 

Very true, but they never even started with him there. He wasn't brought in for that honestly. 

[RangersIn7]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think it's more that Wheeler isn't in the top six because he stinks. 

He was not brought in to play that role in a primary fashion.

Maybe in spots, but not full-time. 

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Very true, but they never even started with him there. He wasn't brought in for that honestly. 

 

I don't know if we can actually say this. He was a top-6 player for the Jets last season and it very much felt like he was, at worst, an insurance policy if the Kakko/Kreider/Laugh/Whatever combo didn't bear fruit re: who would be a RW.

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I don't know if we can actually say this. He was a top-6 player for the Jets last season and it very much felt like he was, at worst, an insurance policy if the Kakko/Kreider/Laugh/Whatever combo didn't bear fruit re: who would be a RW.

It’s hard to know for sure.

Yes you’re correct in saying that he was a top-6 player with pretty good numbers on a playoff team last season.

But I think it’s was more like what you said- kind of a veteran insurance policy, at a position of need with question marks and lack of depth. 
 

 

[Keirik]

Just now, Phil said:

 

I don't know if we can actually say this. He was a top-6 player for the Jets last season and it very much felt like he was, at worst, an insurance policy if the Kakko/Kreider/Laugh/Whatever combo didn't bear fruit re: who would be a RW.

Maybe. But he was on a fairly thin team previously which solidified his role there and 37 in training camp here. I'm getting the sense he was brought in more for a lesser role and laf/kak were always going to be put in the top 6 considering the other 4 in our top 6 are pretty cemented (maybe Chyt to a lesser extent with Tro on the roster).  Hell, laf was gifted his spot despite not really shining in the preseason and it not even being his normal position. 

[Ozzy]

Maybe we set the bar a little high for Wheeler.  He's making the league minimum, and is playing on the 3rd line.  How many points do we think he's going to get this season?  Maybe 15-20?

 

For $800K, I keep thinking we're getting a tutor for Cuylle, and some solid responsible 2-way play.  Anything he chips in on the scoreboard is gravy.

[Phil]

15-20 points would be brutally bad, even for a guy making league minimum. Unless he's playing out the rest of the year on the fourth line.

[Ozzy]

Just now, Phil said:

15-20 points would be brutally bad, even for a guy making league minimum. Unless he's playing out the rest of the year on the fourth line.

 

I have a feeling that's where he's headed.  Vesey might be better suited for the 3rd line...we shall see.