Brooks Where the Rangers' Search for a Reliable Right Wing for Chris Kreider and Mika Zibanejad Might Lead

[Ozzy]

14 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

I feel like we could use some stability in these constant rotating doors of RW and C. It's been emergency plugs at the TDL for years now. That isn't good roster management. I'm hoping they grab players similar to Vatrano and Copp on expiring contracts and then extend them if it works out this time. The narrative is tired.

 

With the cap moving up next year, that may finally be possible.  This year I think it was Band-Aid fixes abound.  All over the NHL.  But yup, we're on the same page, my man!

[Br4d]

19 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

I feel like we could use some stability in these constant rotating doors of RW and C. It's been emergency plugs at the TDL for years now. That isn't good roster management. I'm hoping they grab players similar to Vatrano and Copp on expiring contracts and then extend them if it works out this time. The narrative is tired.

 

The rental aspect is the problem, alongside the fact that changing team chemistry at the trading deadline is a double-edged sword.

 

If the Rangers are going to be buyers again it would probably be better to buy early and to acquire guys with at least another year left on the deal so we get some stability in the process.

 

If the Rangers crash and burn in the playoff this season there are going to be some real trades in the off-season and maybe a buyout also.  It would be good if the guys we acquire this time around were in the big picture already for '24-'25 as that happens.

[jsm7302]

31 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The rental aspect is the problem, alongside the fact that changing team chemistry at the trading deadline is a double-edged sword.

 

If the Rangers are going to be buyers again it would probably be better to buy early and to acquire guys with at least another year left on the deal so we get some stability in the process.

 

If the Rangers crash and burn in the playoff this season there are going to be some real trades in the off-season and maybe a buyout also.  It would be good if the guys we acquire this time around were in the big picture already for '24-'25 as that happens.

Who are you thinking? I don't think they carve up the roster till Panarins last year.

 

Key departures would have to come in the way of Zib and/or Kreids and a most likely Lindgren and/or Miller.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, fletch said:

 

Kreider and Zib are effective on the penalty kill, the power play, and in specialized situations (for example, up a goal in the last minute of the third) working together, and I'd agree that Kreider turns his effort on and off on 5 on 5 (mostly off during mid-week games in the regular season).  Assuming you want to keep Panarin-Trocheck-Laf intact and split up Kreider and Zib, speculative lines here

 

Vesey-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Trocheck-Laf

Kreider-Goodrow-Cuylle (man do we miss Chytil)

Brodzinski-Bonino-Pitlick (rotation of fourth liners, among the healthy scratches)

 

Wheeler has got to be on borrowed time with Othmann and other young players my preference for getting a look.

 

Zib and Kreider have played together long enough that you could separate them for most 5 on 5 shifts and pair them up for specialized situations (PP, PK, etc.).

 

If the Rangers acquire at the trade deadline (and recent history says that they will), if they acquire a top 6 forward then you are taking ice time away from a young player like Kakko, Laf, Cuylle and there is one less roster spot for Othmann or another player to come up.  Acquiring another 30+ year old player just makes it that much harder to get TOI for young players that you are hoping are going to develop into more reliable scorers.

I'd slightly tweak your lines.

 

Cuylle Zib Kakko

Bread: Italian and French

Kreider Brod Vesey

Goody Boneroo Wheeler

 

I know it's not something Lavvy would like to do, but at this point it's necessary, to bury those useless players on the fourth line until they improve the center situation. 

 

What we've seen in the past is that when you split CK and MZ up for a few games and then put them back together, they are much better. Here's the thing about changing a line, you can always change it back. Even in the middle of the game. 

[Br4d]

If the Rangers crap out in the playoffs again this season it's going to be a clear sign that the current core is just not good enough and that you can't add to it to make it good enough under current cap constraints.

 

I'm going to Kreider and getting his list in that scenario.  I'd go to Mika as well except that he has full NMC for another 5 years.  One of the reasons Kreider is the sacrifice in changing the team identity is that almost every other core player is contractually not available for trade.  That and the fact that he is essentially a great special teamer who is not as good at even strength.

 

I am likely dealing K'Andre.  His value is fairly high and he will buy us a young tough LD and some more assets when he goes.  I'd take the best deal even if it did not include a young LD.

 

Lindgren is a toss-up.  His injury history suggests he will have a shorter than average career and he may decline unexpectedly.  However he's one of the few physical players the Rangers have and he's an LD on a roster that is losing a good young LD as Miller leaves town.  It maybe depends on what I think the next contract is going to look like.  I'm not paying $5-6M a year for him on a long contract.  Zero chance of that.

 

I am probably making an effort to retain Gustafsson who works well for Laviolette.  Not going overboard here but if he can be retained for 3-4 years at $2.5-$3M a year I am going to do that.

 

I'm either dealing or buying out Goodrow.

 

I am letting all the 30+ 4th liners go except for Jimmy Vesey.  We can find these guys again if we decide they are part of the picture for next year.

 

I'm trading Zac Jones for whatever I can get that will help the build.  Enough is enough.  We've jumped through hoops not to move him and it hasn't produced dividends.  No way I am keeping him on another roster because we're out of options.

 

At the end of the moves the difference between the rosters looks like this:

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Cuylle - Zibanejad - Kakko (another conundrum that has to be resolved)

Vesey - Chytil (hopefully) - Othmann (could be Vesey at RW to ease Othmann's entry)

4th line figure it out

 

Fox - young tough LD

Trouba - Lindgren (really want to break up Fox and Lindgren)

Schneider - Harpur

 

The assets traded above that are not in that picture yet basically come from the Kreider deal whatever that is.

 

I want next year's Ranger team to have more team speed and more toughness.  Miller and Kreider's's departures means we're going to have to work hard to get the speed up but the toughness will go up almost by default.

 

Note that all the defensive pairs are different because what is happening to our goalies this year is inexcusable.

 

 

Edited January 16 by Br4d

[Br4d]

NM

Edited January 17 by Br4d
Wrong thread

[RichieNextel305]

If Kakko finds a home on the Zibanejad line, it makes life easier for Drury at the deadline by a huge margin. Really the only area of need would be 3C. I’ve been vocal about Elias Lindholm, who would make the Rangers terrifying down the middle. I’d be willing to move a substantial piece (not Ohtmann; think more draft capital and other prospects) to rent him. That is a very big “go for it” move and actually solves a gaping hole with a perfect fit. To have a legitimate Top-6 player centering your 3rd line (very solid 2-way player so would fit perfectly) and adding offense to the Bottom-6 would be huge. I don’t know what Calgary does before the deadline but they’re in the thick of it now. So maybe they don’t move him? If not, like others have said, Sean Monahan would be another perfect fit for the same role. Sure there will be lots of teams interested in both when they (or maybe just Monahan if CGY holds onto Lindholm) officially hit the trade market.

Edited January 17 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

If Kakko finds a home on the Zibanejad line, it makes life easier for Drury at the deadline by a huge margin. Really the only area of need would be 3C. I’ve been vocal about Elias Lindholm, who would make the Rangers terrifying down the middle. I’d be willing to move a substantial piece (not Ohtmann; think more draft capital and other prospects) to rent him. That is a very big “go for it” move and actually solves a gaping hole with a perfect fit. To have a legitimate Top-6 player centering your 3rd line (very solid 2-way player so would fit perfectly) and adding offense to the Bottom-6 would be huge. I don’t know what Calgary does before the deadline but they’re in the thick of it now. So maybe they don’t move him? If not, like others have said, Sean Monahan would be another perfect fit for the same role. Sure there will be lots of teams interested in both when they (or maybe just Monahan if CGY holds onto Lindholm) officially hit the trade market.

The more I think about this, the more I think it needs to be an off the radar acquisition. 

 

I don't think they should be players for Lindholm. The cost to acquire that player, without a prayer in the world of resigning him, just doesn't make it a wise move. Especially after what they had to give up over the last couple of seasons at the deadline just to have all those players walk.

 

Similarly with Monahan, I don't think he helps. Half his points are on the power play, and he isn't going to get that time here, so would we still want him if he was pacing 25 points instead of 50 points? Unlikely. He's like the food stamps version of Zib.

 

I think they should try to acquire a young center with term, and I would actually pay a little more for that. I thought it was crazy when @Kevin mentioned flipping Perrault already... But... I would part with him for a center.

 

Sadly I think Chytil is toast, and even if he plays again, he should be on the wing. 

[RichieNextel305]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

The more I think about this, the more I think it needs to be an off the radar acquisition. 

 

I don't think they should be players for Lindholm. The cost to acquire that player, without a prayer in the world of resigning him, just doesn't make it a wise move. Especially after what they had to give up over the last couple of seasons at the deadline just to have all those players walk.

 

Similarly with Monahan, I don't think he helps. Half his points are on the power play, and he isn't going to get that time here, so would we still want him if he was pacing 25 points instead of 50 points? Unlikely. He's like the food stamps version of Zib.

 

I think they should try to acquire a young center with term, and I would actually pay a little more for that. I thought it was crazy when @Kevin mentioned flipping Perrault already... But... I would part with him for a center.

 

Sadly I think Chytil is toast, and even if he plays again, he should be on the wing. 

I agree on Chytil. Would I be floored if he played again? No. But we also are at the point where it’s basically “hold your breath anytime he takes a shift” time. As unfair as it is, can the Rangers really be relying on him and at that cap hit? 
 

I would be okay with what you’re saying as far as finding someone with term. I just don’t know who that center may be. I was taking a look before and found an interesting possibility if we go that route: Boone Jenner.

 

Cap hit is at $3.75 through 2026. He’s currently out and due back soon from a broken jaw. Always been good in the circle. He’s put up good numbers on bad CBJ teams the last few years. I guess only issue is durability, as he’s missed some time the last few years. But he would be someone of interest (who may require relinquishing a good prospect like you said). Especially given that it’s the captain of a division rival, but a division rival going no where at the moment and should be looking to move pieces for assets. But he’s a guy who would fit in nicely too. That’s just spitballing though…for now.

Edited January 17 by RichieNextel305

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

The more I think about this, the more I think it needs to be an off the radar acquisition. 

 

I don't think they should be players for Lindholm. The cost to acquire that player, without a prayer in the world of resigning him, just doesn't make it a wise move. Especially after what they had to give up over the last couple of seasons at the deadline just to have all those players walk.

 

Similarly with Monahan, I don't think he helps. Half his points are on the power play, and he isn't going to get that time here, so would we still want him if he was pacing 25 points instead of 50 points? Unlikely. He's like the food stamps version of Zib.

 

I think they should try to acquire a young center with term, and I would actually pay a little more for that. I thought it was crazy when @Kevin mentioned flipping Perrault already... But... I would part with him for a center.

 

Sadly I think Chytil is toast, and even if he plays again, he should be on the wing. 

 

You're looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure anyone would qualify for this. Any young center with term is going to be a PP player. You might be able to find a young-ish one? Ryan Hartman is 29 and signed for three more years at $4 million. Outside of him, I feel like the only other options are 30+ — guys like Hayes or Granlund.

 

 

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I agree on Chytil. Would I be floored if he played again? No. But we also are at the point where it’s basically “hold your breath anytime he takes a shift” time. As unfair as it is, can the Rangers really be relying on him and at that cap hit? 
 

I would be okay with what you’re saying as far as finding someone with term. I just don’t know who that center may be. I was taking a look before and found an interesting possibility if we go that route: Boone Jenner.

 

Cap hit is at $3.75 through 2026. He’s currently out and due back soon from a broken jaw. Always been good in the circle. He’s put up good numbers on bad CBJ teams the last few years. I guess only issue is durability, as he’s missed some time the last few years. But he would be someone of interest (who may require relinquishing a good prospect like you said). Especially given that it’s the captain of a division rival, but a division rival going no where at the moment and should be looking to move pieces for assets. But he’s a guy who would fit in nicely too. That’s just spitballing though…for now.

 

This might be the only center in the league who qualifies based on this criteria you guys are talking about. The only other one I can think of is Zegras.

[RangersIn7]

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

You're looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure anyone would qualify for this. Any young center with term is going to be a PP player. You might be able to find a young-ish one? Ryan Hartman is 29 and signed for three more years at $4 million. Outside of him, I feel like the only other options are 30+ — guys like Hayes or Granlund.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This might be the only center in the league who qualifies based on this criteria you guys are talking about. The only other one I can think of is Zegras.

We are still 7-8 weeks from the deadline.

Things can have a way of changing and maybe someone who was not expected to be available becomes available.

[Long live the King]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

The more I think about this, the more I think it needs to be an off the radar acquisition. 

 

I don't think they should be players for Lindholm. The cost to acquire that player, without a prayer in the world of resigning him, just doesn't make it a wise move. Especially after what they had to give up over the last couple of seasons at the deadline just to have all those players walk.

 

Similarly with Monahan, I don't think he helps. Half his points are on the power play, and he isn't going to get that time here, so would we still want him if he was pacing 25 points instead of 50 points? Unlikely. He's like the food stamps version of Zib.

 

I think they should try to acquire a young center with term, and I would actually pay a little more for that. I thought it was crazy when @Kevin mentioned flipping Perrault already... But... I would part with him for a center.

 

Sadly I think Chytil is toast, and even if he plays again, he should be on the wing. 

 

 

Would you break up the bread line for this?  Go Cuylle-Tro-Vesey as the 3rd line?

[Flynn]

Not for nothing.. Moving Tro from his current spot is nuts unless you have a significant upgrade, especially considering how well Bread is playing.. I'm not upsetting the apple cart to add Strome, who is appreciable worse than Tro is every metric we care about so far this season- and it isn't even close. 

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

 

We are still 7-8 weeks from the deadline.

Things can have a way of changing and maybe someone who was not expected to be available becomes available.

 

7-8 weeks doesn't change who is signed that meets this criteria. Even if you look at the middle-of-the-pack teams, no one really has 20-something-year-old centers under contract who don't need/get PP time. We're looking for Jordan Staal, basically, but there's really no one?

[Valriera]

Why not try to sign lindholm? Trochek’s contract. Math is tight but if you trade chytil and do the goodrow dump? Someone convince me with math it’s impossible. Think like 6x6

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Valriera said:

Why not try to sign lindholm? Trochek’s contract. Math is tight but if you trade chytil and do the goodrow dump? Someone convince me with math it’s impossible. Think like 6x6

 

I mean, it's possible, but he's the premiere center in a free agent class where there basically are no other centers. It goes Lindholm, Chandler Stephenson, a mile of shit, and then everyone else like Wennberg, Roslovic, Domi, Monahan, etc.

 

Someone's giving Lindholm stupid money he's not worth (probably like $7 million AAV).

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

You're looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure anyone would qualify for this. Any young center with term is going to be a PP player. You might be able to find a young-ish one? Ryan Hartman is 29 and signed for three more years at $4 million. Outside of him, I feel like the only other options are 30+ — guys like Hayes or Granlund.

 

 

I don't think it's looking for a needle in a haystack at all. You just won't find this player on a list of deadline targets.

 

This isn't a deadline acquisition, this is a hockey trade. Not a rental. A third line center with term should not be hard to find. Lekhonnen type, but not a winger, a center. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Long live the King said:

 

 

Would you break up the bread line for this?  Go Cuylle-Tro-Vesey as the 3rd line?

I think the ship has sailed on him, and Tro has really proven that he can make it work with Panarin.

 

I think you can get a youngish third line center. Not big offensive numbers, but a positive five on five presence. 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't think it's looking for a needle in a haystack at all. You just won't find this player on a list of deadline targets.

 

This isn't a deadline acquisition, this is a hockey trade. Not a rental. A third line center with term should not be hard to find. Lekhonnen type, but not a winger, a center. 

 

I'm not looking at deadline lists. I literally just flipped through CF to see what 20-something centers are even under contract beyond this year. The list is very, very small. Zegras and Hartman are the only two who stuck out right away, at least from middle of the road teams (or bottom feeders). I suppose I could look at top-end teams, too, but it seems odd they'd be entertaining this in-season.

 

But if this is something you're saying could affect the off-season, yeah, it probably opens up.

[Pete]

55 minutes ago, Flynn said:

Not for nothing.. Moving Tro from his current spot is nuts unless you have a significant upgrade, especially considering how well Bread is playing.. I'm not upsetting the apple cart to add Strome, who is appreciable worse than Tro is every metric we care about so far this season- and it isn't even close. 

Well Strome is playing on a terrible Anaheim team. Tro is playing with an MVP. You can't really compare the two this season because it doesn't matter.

 

I don't think Strome is the answer, but there's an argument to be made that moving Tro down the lineup lengthens the lineup and makes the third line more productive offensively and more responsible defensively.

 

That was the original plan after all.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

I'm not looking at deadline lists. I literally just flipped through CF to see what 20-something centers are even under contract beyond this year. The list is very, very small. Zegras and Hartman are the only two who stuck out right away, at least from middle of the road teams (or bottom feeders). I suppose I could look at top-end teams, too, but it seems odd they'd be entertaining this in-season.

 

But if this is something you're saying could affect the off-season, yeah, it probably opens up.

I'm fine grabbing an RFA. As long as they don't walk after the season. I'm not really interested in paying the price for a rental. 

[Valriera]

Luke Kunin from the sharks? Former first rounder, decent stats in bad teams, 26? Plays 3c

Edited January 17 by Valriera

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm fine grabbing an RFA. As long as they don't walk after the season. I'm not really interested in paying the price for a rental. 

 

Gotcha. Yeah, then the lists really opens up. Again, quick glance, but maybe someone like Ivan Barbashev? Rangers have his brother in the pipeline and the Knights are perpetually in cap hell. Four more years at $5 mil after this season.

 

If not, I'd love Nicholas Roy.

[RangersIn7]

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

7-8 weeks doesn't change who is signed that meets this criteria. Even if you look at the middle-of-the-pack teams, no one really has 20-something-year-old centers under contract who don't need/get PP time. We're looking for Jordan Staal, basically, but there's really no one?

No… that’s not how I mean it.

 

Im just talking in terms of who is available.

 

As far as the rental thing is concerned, I get it as far as maybe doing that 3 years in a row isn’t optimal.

But I don’t think that should be a major concern.

They’ve got a really good team that is a legitimate contender. As long as the price is ok, it’s fine.

 

The big concern should simply be getting the right player and not getting fleeced to acquire him.