GDT [RS #39] Rangers vs Vancouver Canucks — Jack Adams Battle

[BrooksBurner]

11 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

They’re missing guys. There’s 2 AHL’ers in the lineup. 
Bonino and Wheeler have slotted in UP the lineup. 
 

It’s what it is right now. 

It’s not a valid excuse when two young guys in Cuylle and Othmann are available to slot up and get a better look. Lavi had both playing the right at times in preseason, so it‘s not an unwillingness to switch sides. He doesn’t deserve heat for much yet, but he deserves some for that.

[siddious]

43 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

They’re missing guys. There’s 2 AHL’ers in the lineup. 
Bonino and Wheeler have slotted in UP the lineup. 
 

It’s what it is right now. 

It is what it is, indeed.  Hopefully kakko is back for the next game 

[RangersIn7]

27 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

It’s not a valid excuse when two young guys in Cuylle and Othmann are available to slot up and get a better look. Lavi had both playing the right at times in preseason, so it‘s not an unwillingness to switch sides. He doesn’t deserve heat for much yet, but he deserves some for that.

I’m not saying that his deployment is the best available or that there aren’t things he could try instead. 
 

But that’s what he’s most comfortable with it appears 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Valriera said:

It’s Othmann’s third game. Maybe he should get eight or nine minutes. Who cares - it has no impact on the game.

?

 

He had impact in his 1st game. Having such a player on the ice generating scoring chances is something this team really needs. They're relying solely on the top 6 for offense. It's taxing on the best players. 

 

Kinda have to treat Othmann as if he were a slumping Chytil.  Try to get him going and give him an opportunity.  You need more offense from somewhere. You're not getting it from  Bonino,  Goodrow,  Pitlick  and now Brodzinski.  Use the pieces that are here.  Giving forwards 23 minutes of icetime is really poor management and the opposite of what got this team off to a good start. 

 

 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Dunny said:

Drury fell in to same trap many do. A rotting corpse, like Wheeler, can't even fukin move out there, brought in under the guise of experience and leadership. How you can watch a guy like that and think he's going to help os beyond me. Why do you employ scouts? 

 

It's a classic trope in this league. "I can fix him."

[Phil]

54 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I'd also like for them to send Brodz back down and slide Edstrom back in there. I wouldn't mind seeing him more at this point. Brodz is a good plug for a few games, can give you some energy for a bit. After that, he looks like what he is, a fringe NHL player.

 

Edstrom is injured, apparently.

[Pete]

Just now, Phil said:

 

It's a classic trope in this league. "I can fix him."

Come on. No one was trying to fix Wheeler. Dude was a 55 point player last year. He came here for nothing. Normally you'd love 30points from an $800K player.

 

Just not on the first line.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Come on. No one was trying to fix Wheeler. Dude was a 55 point player last year. He came here for nothing. Normally you'd love 30points from an $800K player.

 

Just not on the first line.

 

Maybe "fix" is the wrong word, but if you ask Jets fans, they were screaming about how cooked he looked. Now, the same was also true of Jonathan Quick, who they did "fix," but my point is that more often than not, these guys don't make miraculous turns. GMs are willing to go far to keep a guy in the league, even one who looks absolutely cooked, and I admire that, but I also recognize that it's not a winning strategy. Nine times out of 10, if the guy looks cooked, it's because he is. Especially at 35+.

 

But you're absolutely right about where he's playing. That's exacerbating this by orders of magnitude. If he was on the third line this whole time where he was supposed to be, there's nothing to complain about (other than the fact he can't move).

[Ozzy]

I'm sure Drury sees what we're all seeing.  It's January, and I'm pretty sure there's going to be some changes coming.  Kakko will be back, but that's only going to push Wheeler down.  And I didn't think Wheeler was such a bad gamble.  He's just not a 1st liner, just the same as Bonino isn't a 3rd liner, etc.

 

Right now we gotta go with what we have, and we've done ok being short-handed due to injuries, but last night was a glaring glimpse of "we can use some help" I thought.

 

I think Drury will take care of it.  ...and it will be for a decent price, not a panic deal.

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Edstrom is injured, apparently.

Oh, bummer. Hopefully he's not out long. Either way, I think he needs another look up here.

[The Dude]

If the coach wants to juggle the lines. Juggle the lines. Try Lafrenière with 20/93. Try Wheeler with Panarin.  Or try Cuylle with Zibanejad.  Move Goodrow up to 1 RW.  Do something different.  This juggling of the same 3 players isn't going to change much. 

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Oh, bummer. Hopefully he's not out long. Either way, I think he needs another look up here.

 

If they're calling someone up, it's probably Belzile or Blidh. They need a veteran who can sit cold if needed and not be hurt by it.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

Maybe "fix" is the wrong word, but if you ask Jets fans, they were screaming about how cooked he looked. Now, the same was also true of Jonathan Quick, who they did "fix," but my point is that more often than not, these guys don't make miraculous turns. GMs are willing to go far to keep a guy in the league, even one who looks absolutely cooked, and I admire that, but I also recognize that it's not a winning strategy. Nine times out of 10, if the guy looks cooked, it's because he is. Especially at 35+.

 

But you're absolutely right about where he's playing. That's exacerbating this by orders of magnitude. If he was on the third line this whole time where he was supposed to be, there's nothing to complain about (other than the fact he can't move).

I hear you, I guess my point is if you're a Winnipeg fan you're going to think 55 point wheeler is cooked. All we needed is 55 point wheeler though.

 

Now we're getting 35 point wheeler and that's a big disappointment. 

[Mdk154]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Well he's no Kravtsov, that's for sure. 

Wow...creative and funny. 

You are a riot.

[Sod16]

40 minutes ago, Pete said:

I hear you, I guess my point is if you're a Winnipeg fan you're going to think 55 point wheeler is cooked. All we needed is 55 point wheeler though.

 

Now we're getting 35 point wheeler and that's a big disappointment. 

It's big disappointment when he's getting substantial time on the top line.  Here's the problem with getting a 37 year old guy like Wheeler: whatever benefit you get from him will be offset by having him hurt you in his inevitable decline.  If a guy like Wheeler has a good spell, even for a whole season, he'll be around the next year, when he will be cooked and a drag on the team.  They won't get rid of him as soon as he becomes a drag; he'll get a chance to turn it around and won't.  At the risk of offending those who loved MSL, even if he helped the team get in the finals in 2014 (somewhat debatable) he was a terrible drag, pulling down his whole line, in 2015 and probably kept them out of the finals that year.  A guy like Wheeler will thus be, at best a wash, and likely not that.

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

It's big disappointment when he's getting substantial time on the top line.  Here's the problem with getting a 37 year old guy like Wheeler: whatever benefit you get from him will be offset by having him hurt you in his inevitable decline.  If a guy like Wheeler has a good spell, even for a whole season, he'll be around the next year, when he will be cooked and a drag on the team.  They won't get rid of him as soon as he becomes a drag; he'll get a chance to turn it around and won't.  At the risk of offending those who loved MSL, even if he helped the team get in the finals in 2014 (somewhat debatable) he was a terrible drag, pulling down his whole line, in 2015 and probably kept them out of the finals that year.  A guy like Wheeler will thus be, at best a wash, and likely not that.

I hated end of MSL but it was because he was a 90 point player who came here and became a 50(?) point player. I don't really even care if/that Wheeler dropped off from a 55 point player to a 35 point player, I'm mad that he's on the top line.

 

But, what other choice is there, due to injury?

 

My point is, about 20 other teams would have taken a flier on Wheeler at the league minimum.

[Valriera]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

My point is, about 20 other teams would have taken a flier on Wheeler at the league minimum.

Even knowing what I know now I still take a flier on Wheeler at league minimum. Who else we getting on that contract with any upside at all?

[Sod16]

It's kind of like adopting a 10 year old dog.  You may get a wonderful year out of him, but you are guaranteed of having to deal with his decline and demise.  A brief beneift from Wheeler is not worth having to deal with his decline and demise.  It may be that 20 other teams would have taken him at that price, but this league is filled with GMs and coaches trying to milk something out of has beens, and 90 percent of the time, it isn't productive, whatever the price.

[Pete]

Just now, Sod16 said:

It's kind of like adopting a 10 year old dog.  You may get a wonderful year out of him, but you are guaranteed of having to deal with his decline and demise.  A brief beneift from Wheeler is not worth having to deal with his decline and demise.  It may be that 20 other teams would have taken him at that price, but this league is filled with GMs and coaches trying to milk something out of has beens, and 90 percent of the time, it isn't productive, whatever the price.

Maybe, but when you see 20 other teams doing the same thing, you kind of have to imagine that the alternative is probably worse.

 

Like I would rather have Wheeler in the playoffs than Adam Edstrom. I wouldn't mind them rotating in for each other during the regular season, to be honest. 

[Sod16]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Like I would rather have Wheeler in the playoffs than Adam Edstrom. I wouldn't mind them rotating in for each other during the regular season, to be honest. 

Agreed.  Wheeler is more the kind of guy I'd like to get at the deadline, give him some smelling salts, and see if he might find the inspiration of his youth at few key moments in the playoffs.  At least don't have to watch him dragging through 82 games that way.

 

Ah, when Blake was young:

 

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I hear you, I guess my point is if you're a Winnipeg fan you're going to think 55 point wheeler is cooked. All we needed is 55 point wheeler though.

 

Now we're getting 35 point wheeler and that's a big disappointment. 

 

If anyone is disappointed about 35 point Wheeler, then their expectations were simply too high.

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

If anyone is disappointed about 35 point Wheeler, then their expectations were simply too high.

Nah, you don't expect it 20 point drop off in one season.

 

It's primarily disappointing that he's not doing much of anything while playing with the best players on the team. You would think they would be making the game easy for him, but he's just too far gone. 35 points from a third liner would be the minimum. I expected him to be between 45 and 50 on that third line with Trocheck. But life didn't work out that way and he's not exactly lighting it up on the top line, numbers aside he doesn't pass the eyeball test any day of the week. 

 

I take the other lesson is to stop putting faith in guys who have spent 10-15 years with one organization. It's just too much change. 

Edited January 9 by Pete

[Steve]

Rangers aren't built to handle teams that can play a tight checking game for 60 minutes or teams that check tight and hit often.  It's not one player it's just the way this team is put together.  They need an enforcer or big body guy who can make some room for their skilled play makers.  Actually, I'd put Will Cuylle on the second line with Panarin and Trochek.  They also need a pure goal scorer somewhere in the lineup.  2 years ago it was Kreider, then last year it was Zibanejad, now this year it is Panarin. All great but other teams adjust to them.  They need someone who has a deadly shot from every place on the ice, who shoots first, is accurate.  I also wonder about the hidden injuries not discussed.  Fox got hurt and doesn't look the same under pressure plus teams are running at him more now.  Trouba got hurt, left a game and he doesn't look the same, too many give aways in the defensive zone.  Shesterkin got hurt and he really does not look consistent.   No offense but Lafrenière needs to be traded to a team where he can grow.  The guy has moves, controls the puck but he has poor shot selection and can't score no matter how hard he tries.  He has a lot of upside but if this team is supposed to win now then he's not in the right place.  I'd trade him for a pure goal scorer just not some has-been that used to score.  Finally, I just hope this team does not collapse like the 2022 Yankees.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Nah, you don't expect it 20 point drop off in one season.

 

It's primarily disappointing that he's not doing much of anything while playing with the best players on the team. You would think they would be making the game easy for him, but he's just too far gone. 35 points from a third liner would be the minimum. I expected him to be between 45 and 50 on that third line with Trocheck. But life didn't work out that way and he's not exactly lighting it up on the top line, numbers aside he doesn't pass the eyeball test any day of the week. 

 

I take the other lesson is to stop putting faith in guys who have spent 10-15 years with one organization. It's just too much change. 

 

Yes, actually, because PP TOI matters a lot for simple boxcar stats, and he wasn't going to get that here. On top of that, being another year older and playing with guys he hasn't played with before. 40 points would have been a good year for how he was going to be used. He's pacing for low 30s. It's not that far off. If anyone had him for 30 goals or 50 points, they were out to lunch. Plain and simple.

Edited January 9 by BrooksBurner

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Nah, you don't expect it 20 point drop off in one season.

 

It's primarily disappointing that he's not doing much of anything while playing with the best players on the team. You would think they would be making the game easy for him, but he's just too far gone. 35 points from a third liner would be the minimum. I expected him to be between 45 and 50 on that third line with Trocheck. But life didn't work out that way and he's not exactly lighting it up on the top line, numbers aside he doesn't pass the eyeball test any day of the week. 

 

I take the other lesson is to stop putting faith in guys who have spent 10-15 years with one organization. It's just too much change. 

 

Not normally, no, but when a guy spends basically his whole career in one place and then goes to a new team this late in the game? Reminds me of Naslund a bit. His was like a ten-point drop though.