2024 Off-season Thread: Burn in Effigy

[Albatrosss]

we need more bullet points, people.  More bullet points please

[Albatrosss]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

This team was bad for a long time. Then they got much better after the lockout, then there were some iffy years, but a lot of playoffs. Lots of playoffs. And yea they never won, but would you rather be a Flames fan? A Jackets fan? Or even other good teams that never got over the hump...Hard to believe Boston only has the one Cup like a dozen years ago. Philly always had good teams, never won. The Caps just the one time.

 

Would you rather be in Toronto's situation, where you're running back a team that can't get out of the first round, instead of a team that's very close to making it into the last round?

 

Rangers fans could have it much worse than they do. But they complain anyway. I get being sour on certain players for certain reasons, but my lord what goes on here is just nuts.

• Every player but Laf and Shesterkin sucks.
  • We only win because of the goalie (wrong)
  • but let's also pay the goalie everything so the team can't improve around Laf.
• The coach sucks.
• The GM sucks.
• They get raped on every trade.
  • Glad we didn't get raped on that trade!
  • Oh but it's because we don't have the second rounder after getting raped on trade above.

And it's July.

you're complaining about people who complain.  I think there's a medical term for this

[BrooksBurner]

This team did next to nothing last summer too. Gus, Bonino, and old man Wheeler. Let’s not act like they are trying something new this summer by not getting a good player in free agency. The difference between last summer and this summer, is there was some cap space available or that could easily be available to have used this summer, and it was chosen not to be used.

 

We’ve definitely hit the bargaining stage of grief here. “Well if you think about it they didn’t have to do that much”. Gluttons for punishment, I tell ya.

[Phil]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

This team did next to nothing last summer too. Gus, Bonino, and old man Wheeler. Let’s not act like they are trying something new this summer by not getting a good player in free agency. The difference between last summer and this summer, is there was some cap space available or that could easily be available to have used this summer, and it was chosen not to be used.

 

We’ve definitely hit the bargaining stage of grief here. “Well if you think about it they didn’t have to do that much”. Gluttons for punishment, I tell ya.

 

The difference between last off-season and this is there was that there was little to no media support for not running it back. Your columns fucked everything up, Lar. Everything. "The decision has been made."

[Phil]

54 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

you're complaining about people who complain.  I think there's a medical term for this

 

Schrödinger's armadillo?

[Albatrosss]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Schrödinger's armadillo?

let me check with my shrink

[Ozzy]

I just checked my "shrink"....yup....still hung like a Tic-Tac!

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

I just checked my "shrink"....yup....still hung like a Tic-Tac!

who are you trying to impress, Pete or @BrooksBurner ?

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Albatrosss said:

who are you trying to impress, Pete or @BrooksBurner ?

 

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, obviously we control nothing. But when I talk about this, I am never talking about it from my perspective. It's commentary on the men in control. Same with politics and most other facets of life. We're simply commentating on what we see, not what we control.

 

That said, I expected them to sign a forward and a defenseman. They traded for Reilly Smith, so box one is checked. The defenseman was presumably coming after Trouba was removed. Swing and a miss on both fronts.

 

But like I'm going to repeat below, the good news here is that even if I'm personally dissatisfied with the state of the team, there's a ton of time for Drury to mold it before next playoffs start. That's when shit matters. Not now. Would I like them to have everything in place already? Of course, but if it's not, that's OK. They're still built to be a dominant regular season team and I expect they will be again. As to whether I believe that'll translate to a championship, we'll reassess after the trade deadline.

 

 

It's an excellent regular season group. It's a good playoff group. Good isn't really good enough to win, though, which is why some of us are still so discontent with what few changes have been made.

 

That said, I'll reiterate what I just said to Pete. They don't need to be championship caliber now. They need to be by next playoffs. There's an entire season + trade deadline between now and then, so plenty of runway left to get their ducks in a row.

My issues with this team are only really two-fold. 
They were greater than that last season.

 

1) They are 1-2 players short in the right spots.

2) While deployment and utilization improved under Lavy vs GG, it still could be better.

 

Having said that… I think that gets better in year 2 under Lavy. Also health and lack if progression of certain guys affected that. And having 1-2 holes in the roster that are meaningful affected that. And there are guys on the roster that are young and still have their best hockey in front of them that can still progress.

Plus, none of the vets are all that old, nor have they shown significant signs of decline, IMO. 
 

And I think that is all stuff is stuff that can be fixed and/or worked with.

 
They’re gonna be around.

 

 

[Br4d]

The '24-'25 Rangers are at a disadvantage over last year's crew.

 

It's hard to get that lucky again.  Last year's crew was probably a 100 point team that just kept winning improbable comebacks all season long.  That doesn't mean they didn't deserve some of those wins but they set the ALL-TIME record for an NHL team in terms of comebacks regular and post-season and that was extremely fortunate leading to the President's Cup Trophy and wiping out the 'Canes in round 2.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The '24-'25 Rangers are at a disadvantage over last year's crew.

 

It's hard to get that lucky again.  Last year's crew was probably a 100 point team that just kept winning improbable comebacks all season long.  That doesn't mean they didn't deserve some of those wins but they set the ALL-TIME record for an NHL team in terms of comebacks regular and post-season and that was extremely fortunate leading to the President's Cup Trophy and wiping out the 'Canes in round 2.

Maybe Shesty doesn't slump half the season and they don't have to come back as much. 

 

I know "hope isn't a strategy".  

 

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Maybe Shesty doesn't slump half the season and they don't have to come back as much. 

 

I know "hope isn't a strategy".  

 

 

All I'm saying is the Rangers could hit 100 pts this year and still be playing just as well as they did last season.

 

I'm not expecting them to finish at the level they did last season because a lot of what happened is likely irreproducible.

[Pete]

59 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

The difference between last off-season and this is there was that there was little to no media support for not running it back. Your columns fucked everything up, Lar. Everything. "The decision has been made."

And what does media support matter? They're not in a different position the summer than they were last: immovable contracts and no cap. 

 

The difference is that this year was wildly more successful because GG is a dummy and Lavvy isn't. 

 

There was actually more of a reason to blow it up last summer.

 

The team went after Patrick Kane and settled for Reilly Smith along with going for a bunch of players who didn't want to come here. 

 

They also removed the team's worst statistical forward and attempted to move its worst defenseman, which would have been addition by subtraction, until Larry got involved. 

[Rangers1994]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

And what does media support matter? They're not in a different position the summer than they were last: immovable contracts and no cap. 

 

The difference is that this year was wildly more successful because GG is a dummy and Lavvy isn't. 

 

There was actually more of a reason to blow it up last summer.

 

The team went after Patrick Kane and settled for Reilly Smith along with going for a bunch of players who didn't want to come here. 

 

They also removed the team's worst statistical forward and attempted to move its worst defenseman, which would have been addition by subtraction, until Larry got involved. 

 

The Rangers couldn't sign Patrick Kane this summer. He signed with the Red Wings before UFA began.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

The Rangers couldn't sign Patrick Kane this summer. He signed with the Red Wings before UFA began.

A decision made after Trouba wasn't removed leading to a fiasco. 

[BrooksBurner]

Nothing the media wrote had any impact on Trouba saying no to a trade to Detroit, or wanting to stay in NY for his family. Trouba is doing his own thing. It’s got nothing to do with anything else.

 

Drury could have signed a number of free agents, including Kane if he made it to market, if he committed to a Trouba buyout at minimum.

Edited July 8 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

They need Trouba's hit gone to afford Kane. 

 

A buyout would not have worked. You keep $4 million on the books, you sign Kane for $4 million and you're still short a defender. 

 

They needed a defenseman coming back and salary cap relief. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

They need Trouba's hit gone to afford Kane. 

 

A buyout would not have worked. You keep $4 million on the books, you sign Kane for $4 million and you're still short a defender. 

 

They needed a defenseman coming back and salary cap relief. 
 

 

No. They have some space now to have signed a cheap 3rd pairing guy. Could have used Trouba’s buyout space in it’s entirety and added perf bonuses. In any event, Trouba’s decision was his alone. If Drury’s only plan this summer to improve the team hinged on forcing a Trouba trade, it was a bad plan.

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

No. They have some space now to have signed a cheap 3rd pairing guy. Could have used Trouba’s buyout space in it’s entirety and added perf bonuses.

They have $8M in space. 2+ going to Schneider and around 4 going to Lindgren. 

 

That leaves them $2M and they need a 7th defenseman and 13th forward.

 

You can only use performance bonuses for 35+ contracts of one year, ELCs, or a one-year contract to a player coming off injury. 

 

And maybe they don't want to go into the year with pennies in cap space and not be able to do anything at all until the day before the trade deadline.

 

Quote

In any event, Trouba’s decision was his alone.

His decision to not report to any team is his own. He's acting outside the spirit of his contract and Larry made sure everybody knew he would not report, so now he's untradable and un-waiveable.

Quote

If Drury’s only plan this summer to improve the team hinged on forcing a Trouba trade, it was a bad plan.

His plan was obviously to remove overpriced players from the team and use that cap space on one year deals this season and RFAs next season. 

 

He successfully did it to Goodrow and not Trouba, with help from Larry. 

[RangersIn7]

16 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The '24-'25 Rangers are at a disadvantage over last year's crew.

 

It's hard to get that lucky again.  Last year's crew was probably a 100 point team that just kept winning improbable comebacks all season long.  That doesn't mean they didn't deserve some of those wins but they set the ALL-TIME record for an NHL team in terms of comebacks regular and post-season and that was extremely fortunate leading to the President's Cup Trophy and wiping out the 'Canes in round 2.

Yeah… maybe they don’t set a record for that again. But they’ve been very good at coming from behind and giving off the “we aren’t out of any game” vibe for a while now.

 

Despite what anyone thinks, they’re still the best team in the division. Doesn’t mean they win it again. But they’ll be right there.

 

And I’m not “hoping” by saying this but, what they get in terms of growth and younger players this season, and from what they add at or before the deadline, could make a big difference. 
There’s actual thought, logic, and reason for thinking those things. Not blind faith and and a fan’s hope. 

[RichieNextel305]

2 hours ago, Br4d said:

The '24-'25 Rangers are at a disadvantage over last year's crew.

 

It's hard to get that lucky again.  Last year's crew was probably a 100 point team that just kept winning improbable comebacks all season long.  That doesn't mean they didn't deserve some of those wins but they set the ALL-TIME record for an NHL team in terms of comebacks regular and post-season and that was extremely fortunate leading to the President's Cup Trophy and wiping out the 'Canes in round 2.

This is so off base, and I’m sorry to say that. It’s like you’re factoring all the good in and saying it can’t be replicated. But then totally ignoring all of the bad.
 

What if Mika bounces back and is better? What if Igor doesn’t take until February to get into form? What if Smith actually ends up being a fit with them? What if they master the system Laviolette employs better this season better than last?

 

There are a lot of hypotheticals. On both sides of the argument. And that goes for literally every single team in every single sport. So I don’t know why we would waste time calling a 55-win, 114-point team “lucky” when it very clearly goes beyond being lucky.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, RichieNextel305 said:

This is so off base, and I’m sorry to say that. It’s like you’re factoring all the good in and saying it can’t be replicated. But then totally ignoring all of the bad.
 

What if Mika bounces back and is better? What if Igor doesn’t take until February to get into form? What if Smith actually ends up being a fit with them? What if they master the system Laviolette employs better this season better than last?

 

There are a lot of hypotheticals. On both sides of the argument. And that goes for literally every single team in every single sport. So I don’t know why we would waste time calling a 55-win, 114-point team “lucky” when it very clearly goes beyond being lucky.

Also have to factor in the young guys getting better(hopefully) as well. They might not finish with the best record this fine, but we still have a pretty damn good team to looking forward to. That still applies even with Trouba.

[RichieNextel305]

46 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Also have to factor in the young guys getting better(hopefully) as well. They might not finish with the best record this fine, but we still have a pretty damn good team to looking forward to. That still applies even with Trouba.

I just think it evens out. Is Panarin going to flirt with 50 again? Maybe not. But maybe Zibanejad, instead of finishing 4th on the team in goals, finishes 1st and hits 35-40 again. Maybe Lafreniere graduates from high-20s to mid-30’s.

 

Or maybe Panarin does flirt with 50 again. And all of the rest happens. Thats far more likely than of everyone falling off from last year and everyone from last year continue to be inconsistent.

 

Or who knows? Maybe there’s 65 injuries and we finish at the bottom of the NHL and win a lottery.

 

Or maybe we win the Cup.

 

Stay Tuned, I guess? Or don’t.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I just think it evens out. Is Panarin going to flirt with 50 again? Maybe not. But maybe Zibanejad, instead of finishing 4th on the team in goals, finishes 1st and hits 35-40 again. Maybe Lafreniere graduates from high-20s to mid-30’s.

 

Or maybe Panarin does flirt with 50 again. And all of the rest happens. Thats far more likely than of everyone falling off from last year and everyone from last year continue to be inconsistent.

 

Or who knows? Maybe there’s 65 injuries and we finish at the bottom of the NHL and win a lottery.

 

Or maybe we win the Cup.

 

Stay Tuned, I guess? Or don’t.

Yea, a lot of the team didn't play their best hockey. Basically Bakery line all had career years and everyone else at or below what their hockey card says they should have.