Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 1 minute ago, Br4d said: Pete, they got rolled. I don't know what kind of blinders you have on but they're preventing you from seeing what happened. Br4d, games one and two were evenly played. I don't know what kind of blinders you have on but they're preventing you from seeing what happened. I guess my blinders would be facts and math, but you never really care much about data when presenting arguments anyway, since you've only supported any statement you've made with data...never. Edited June 10 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 21 minutes ago, Br4d said: Pete, they got rolled. I don't know what kind of blinders you have on but they're preventing you from seeing what happened. Game 1 was a dice roll, but Florida ultimately deserved it. I don’t think we played horrible, but Florida played better. Game 2 I thought we responded well. I think we deserved that game. Game 3, both teams had shaky play. It’s easy to say we got dominated that game. But we scored 5 goals. We gave up an early goal, responded with 2. Took a 2 goal lead, gave it right back. And then got a bounce in OT. Did Florida play a much better 3rd period? Absolutely. We got mauled in the 3rd period of that game. But we withstood it, got it to OT and won. Game 4 was a chess match. If that Mika shot doesn’t hit bar, who knows what happens there? We go up 2-0, maybe it’s a different game, maybe it’s not. End of the day, they beat us. Games 5 and 6 there just wasn’t enough pushback, even with us taking a lead in Game 5. Listen, did Florida play better? Absolutely. There were stretches they dominated. But, last I checked, Shesterkin plays for the Rangers. So this argument of “we were only in it because of Igor” makes almost no sense. Our best player was our best player. Why should I have to apologize for that? There is work to be done. But the work needs to be done around the way the Rangers play; not trying to make them something they’re not. Just because Florida was our death knell this year doesn't mean we start to build a team like Florida. It means to do your homework more and figure out how to beat Florida. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 56 minutes ago, Pete said: Games one and two were very evenly played. That's all I said. The data supports it. Of course you feel like they got rolled. Anyone can feel however they want, feelings aren't facts. I'm not going to argue over the definition of rolled. All I know is they were never in control and were constantly trying to rally and come back, mostly on the PP, because their 5v5 numbers are dismal for a team with expectations this high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Phil said: I'm not going to argue over the definition of rolled. All I know is they were never in control and were constantly trying to rally and come back, mostly on the PP, because their 5v5 numbers are dismal for a team with expectations this high. That very well might be the narrative for the collective series, especially games 3 through 6. Games one and two were evenly played. They scored five goals in game 3. But yeah I would love to know the definition of rolled because series that go six games where one team was getting "rolled" the entire time is a pretty impressive feat. Edited June 10 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 11 minutes ago, Pete said: That very well might be the narrative for the collective series, especially games 3 through 6. Games one and two were evenly played. They scored five goals in game 3. But yeah I would love to know the definition of rolled because series that go six games where one team was getting "rolled" the entire time is a pretty impressive feat. It was a pretty impressive feat...by Shesterkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: It was a pretty impressive feat...by Shesterkin. Agree. Games 1 and 2 were evenly played. And: Edited June 10 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 38 minutes ago, Pete said: That very well might be the narrative for the collective series, especially games 3 through 6. Games one and two were evenly played. They scored five goals in game 3. But yeah I would love to know the definition of rolled because series that go six games where one team was getting "rolled" the entire time is a pretty impressive feat. Insert for a term of lesser impact if you'd like, but I'll counter with this: Igor Shesterkin posted an NHL-best 15.62 goals saved above expected, according to Evolving Hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 7 minutes ago, Phil said: Insert for a term of lesser impact if you'd like, but I'll counter with this: Igor Shesterkin posted an NHL-best 15.62 goals saved above expected, according to Evolving Hockey. Cool. Many things can be true. Igor was playing the game in God mode. The Tkachuk goal was soft as shit. Games 1 and 3 were evenly played. The Rangers wouldn't have had a chance without him. The Rangers were in every game because of him, but they were still in every game. Feels like a bunch of truths there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 when’s the draft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Froman Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) That makes two of us. Edited June 10 by Abe Froman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: There is work to be done. But the work needs to be done around the way the Rangers play; not trying to make them something they’re not. Just because Florida was our death knell this year doesn't mean we start to build a team like Florida. It means to do your homework more and figure out how to beat Florida. You can't change the way 30+ year old players play. They have to do that themselves and even then they are prone to sliding back into the same old bad habits. Really you can't change the way any player plays after their 2nd or 3rd year. They have to do it themselves. There's no reason to believe that Panarin and Zibanejad and the other cyclers are going to change to become more effective in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 12 minutes ago, Br4d said: You can't change the way 30+ year old players play. They have to do that themselves and even then they are prone to sliding back into the same old bad habits. Really you can't change the way any player plays after their 2nd or 3rd year. They have to do it themselves. There's no reason to believe that Panarin and Zibanejad and the other cyclers are going to change to become more effective in the playoffs. We changed from last year to this year, didn’t we? Coaching helped from year to year. Mastering a system takes time. Do I have doubts about whether or not our top guys can be the ones to get us over the finish line? Sure. Even Drury does, it seems. We have no clue what this team will look like. But we do know how they’re going to play. They’re gonna try and win with this system in place. Not the system of this years flavor of the month. Because even though Florida found out how to win so far playing their way, or Edmonton eventually wins playing their way, doesn’t mean that’s how next years champion will play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 The biggest reason we had the season we had was that Panarin shaved his head and came to camp with a 100% dedication to taking shots when he had the opportunity and sometimes making an opportunity to take a shot out of nothing. It's too bad he didn't shave his head again before the playoffs. I would love to see the Rangers win another Presdient's Cup next season, however if the playoffs is still going to be capped by the top 6 we have in place I just don't care. I'd rather sneak in as the 8th seed with a younger team that is growing as they go and see where that takes us. We already know where this vet group is capped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Br4d said: The biggest reason we had the season we had was that Panarin shaved his head and came to camp with a 100% dedication to taking shots when he had the opportunity and sometimes making an opportunity to take a shot out of nothing. It's too bad he didn't shave his head again before the playoffs. I would love to see the Rangers win another Presdient's Cup next season, however if the playoffs is still going to be capped by the top 6 we have in place I just don't care. I'd rather sneak in as the 8th seed with a younger team that is growing as they go and see where that takes us. We already know where this vet group is capped. It’s all of this really. You move a guy like Panarin and replace him in the lineup with a couple of N/S guys who are adept at forechecking and have some skill, and it changes the equation. You might lose some of those meaningless-to-the-playoffs 3v3 OT / shootout games and temporarily be a 100 point Metro 3rd / 7 / 8 seed team instead of division winner at 110, but I’d bet they’d start to become a tougher playoff team moving forward. One step backwards to take two or more steps forward later. That has to be the mindset. If Drury burns down all the clocks and washes away veteran trade values, there won’t be anything left to cash in to retool. Edited June 10 by BrooksBurner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: One step backwards to take two or more steps forward later. That has to be the mindset. If Drury burns down all the clocks and washes away veteran trade values, there won’t be anything left to cash in to retool. This is what I worry about at the moment. That the Rangers will sleepwalk into a bad situation where they don't have enough talent now to win in the playoffs and they struggle to replace the old core because they waited too long to make a real effort to do that. Next season they really have to put Laf on power play 1. Not because he is guaranteed to be better than who he replaces but because that is a critical first step in locking him up long-term. If Laf is not on PP1 next season and the Rangers haven't locked him up before that I half expect that he will be playing somewhere else in a few years. That means somebody's trade value is going to go down as they lose power play minutes. Better to figure out who that guy is and trade him while he still retains the cachet he will lose with the loss of PP1 minutes and points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, Br4d said: This is what I worry about at the moment. That the Rangers will sleepwalk into a bad situation where they don't have enough talent now to win in the playoffs and they struggle to replace the old core because they waited too long to make a real effort to do that. Next season they really have to put Laf on power play 1. Not because he is guaranteed to be better than who he replaces but because that is a critical first step in locking him up long-term. If Laf is not on PP1 next season and the Rangers haven't locked him up before that I half expect that he will be playing somewhere else in a few years. That means somebody's trade value is going to go down as they lose power play minutes. Better to figure out who that guy is and trade him while he still retains the cachet he will lose with the loss of PP1 minutes and points. Yes, and that narrows it down to one of Zibanejad, Panarin, or Kreider moving out. There’s no excuse not to make the move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 25 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: It’s all of this really. You move a guy like Panarin and replace him in the lineup with a couple of N/S guys who are adept at forechecking and have some skill, and it changes the equation. You might lose some of those meaningless-to-the-playoffs 3v3 OT / shootout games and temporarily be a 100 point Metro 3rd / 7 / 8 seed team instead of division winner at 110, but I’d bet they’d start to become a tougher playoff team moving forward. One step backwards to take two or more steps forward later. That has to be the mindset. If Drury burns down all the clocks and washes away veteran trade values, there won’t be anything left to cash in to retool. Why do you hold on to this idea that Panarin will waive and you won't have to retain? That's never happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Yes, and that narrows it down to one of Zibanejad, Panarin, or Kreider moving out. There’s no excuse not to make the move. There's no excuse not to trade Krieder. The others are probably not waiving. That's just the reality of it. I don't know why it needs repeating. Edited June 10 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Just now, Pete said: Why do you hold on to this idea that Panarin will waive and you won't have to retain? That's never happening. Panarin probably will waive for the right destination. We'll have to let him pick it but that team is very unlikely to say no to Artemi Panarin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Br4d said: Panarin probably will waive for the right destination. We'll have to let him pick it but that team is very unlikely to say no to Artemi Panarin. He's not going to waive to go to a bottom feeder. So of the competitive teams, please tell me who's got the cap space to take him without retention. Then let me know what contract we're getting back and how it makes the team better. Edited June 11 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 10 minutes ago, Pete said: There's no excuse not to trade Krieder. The others are probably not waiving. That's just the reality of it. I don't know why it needs repeating. Yes if the other two leave no option then you trade Kreider. You’ll still be entertained for 6 months no matter which one of these players is moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said: Yes if the other two leave no option then you trade Kreider. You’ll still be entertained for 6 months no matter which one of these players is moved. They're not waiving. Best to just deal with it and move on with your life. If they put a quality product out, I'll be entertained. If they don't, I'll pay less attention. What I won't do is come here and cry and whine for 6 months. Edited June 11 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 8 minutes ago, Pete said: He's not going to waive to go to a bottom feeder. So of the competitive teams, please tell me who's got the cap space to take him without retention. Then let me know what contract we're getting back and how it makes the team better. In terms of teams who should be playoff teams after adding a Panarin: Boston and Detroit for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 2 minutes ago, Pete said: They're not waiving. Best to just deal with it and move on with your life. If they put a quality product out, I'll be entertained. If they don't, I'll pay less attention. What I won't do is come here and cry and whine for 6 months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: In terms of teams who should be playoff teams after adding a Panarin: Boston and Detroit for starters. And yet your whole point is that he doesn't produce in the playoffs, so why would Boston want him? Yzermam isn't going to pay his full ticket because he's not going to pay anybody more than Larkin, so there's retention or a bad contract coming back. Edited June 11 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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