2024 Off-season Thread: Burn in Effigy

[BrooksBurner]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

And yet your whole point is that he doesn't produce in the playoffs, so why would Boston want him? 

 

Yzermam isn't going to pay his full ticket because he's not going to pay anybody more than Larkin, so there's retention or a bad contract coming back. 

 

As long as there's other GMs who think like you do about him, Drury can sell it. There's also the argument that Panarin's playoff issues aren't all on him and maybe he just needs a different mix of other players on the roster - something the Rangers just can't feasibly do within Panarin's timeline. The thing about Boston is Pasta is their only real skill forward. The rest are mostly gritty type of players. Marchand a mix of both. A little more skill to help Pasta might very well be the ticket for that kind of roster, and Panarin might have some more success on a roster like that. Eichel to Vegas vibes. It's also a big market, nice city, big on hockey. I think Panarin would find it a good option if Drury asked to move him. I'm sure he'd like to play with Pasta and vice versa.

 

We can come up with reasons for any team in the league to not make the move. I don't want to get into what ifs. Several teams would want him or make room for him and it's just a matter of Panarin wanting one of them and Drury being ready to rip the band-aid off.

Edited June 11 by BrooksBurner

[Br4d]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

He's not going to waive to go to a bottom feeder. So of the competitive teams, please tell me who's got the cap space to take him without retention. 

 

Then let me know what contract we're getting back and how it makes the team better. 

 

He might waive for Chicago.  He's got a feel for the city.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

As long as there's other GMs who think like you do about him...

What I think about him is that he isn't going to waive, and even if he did, there's going to be retention or a bad contract neither of which I'm interested in. 

 

You keep insisting the team can get immediately better by trading him, but that is absolutely not realistic. 

Quote

 I don't want to get into what ifs. 

The entire conversation is a what if!

 

What if the GM wants him gone, what if he waves are all huge what-ifs lol. 

Edited June 11 by Pete

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

He might waive for Chicago.  He's got a feel for the city.

That's one team where there might be a shot, I mentioned them earlier, especially if Kane goes back. 

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

What I think about him is that he isn't going to waive, and even if he did, there's going to be retention or a bad contract neither of which I'm interested in. 

 

You keep insisting the team can get immediately better by trading him, but that is absolutely not realistic. 

The entire conversation is a what if!

 

What if the GM wants him gone, what if he waves are all huge what-ifs lol. 

 

I don't agree. The Bruins are in prime shape for a big move or two after they trade Ullmark and let Debrusk walk.

[BrooksBurner]

Boston is also a premium fit for Zibanejad or Kreider too. They have the cap space to do it. They are going to get something reasonably nice for Ullmark that they can flip.

 

If Drury isn't talking to Boston this offseason, he has missed an opportunity.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Boston is also a premium fit for Zibanejad or Kreider too. They have the cap space to do it. They are going to get something reasonably nice for Ullmark that they can flip.

 

If Drury isn't talking to Boston this offseason, he has missed an opportunity.

I'd try to move CK there for sure. Maybe even try and get Ullmark and then trade Shesterkin.

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'd try to move CK there for sure. Maybe even try and get Ullmark and then trade Shesterkin.

 

 

 

Lol that was close to what I had in my fun and wild CapFriendly roster that I shared the other day. One of those fun "ok probably not gonna happen but you know it kind of makes sense when you think about it" kind of rosters. Kreider for Ullmark++, and Igor for a youngish impact forward.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Lol that was close to what I had in my fun and wild CapFriendly roster that I shared the other day. One of those fun "ok probably not gonna happen but you know it kind of makes sense when you think about it" kind of rosters. Kreider for Ullmark++, and Igor for a youngish impact forward.

I just can't see paying Igor 10+ and being able to field a winning team. 

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

I just can't see paying Igor 10+ and being able to field a winning team. 

 

Who do you think they could get for Igor?

[jsm7302]

39 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Who do you think they could get for Igor?

The possibilities are ENDLESS. Though I can't remember a goalie trade where the team trading the goalie got a HAUL back. I'd assume we would want to send him out west and not near here. 

[BrooksBurner]

22 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

The possibilities are ENDLESS. Though I can't remember a goalie trade where the team trading the goalie got a HAUL back. I'd assume we would want to send him out west and not near here. 

 

I played around with Igor+ for Rantanen. I kind of think that might require Igor + Kreider for Rantanen + something, and that's only if Colorado bucks their reluctance to pay a goalie. I generally abide by the "don't pay a goalie big money" train of thought, but Colorado might be one of those teams where it makes sense. They've probably got the 2nd best forward in the league and a generational defenseman. Adding the best goalie in the league would have to be such a tempting thing to turn down even if it cost Rantanen.

[Sod16]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I just can't see paying Igor 10+ and being able to field a winning team. 

I'm vexed by this and so may be Drury, or at least he should be.  I guess on balance I'm ready to pay it, but with serious misgivings.  A trade this summer would yield quite a catch and yield cap space for other endeavors.  On the other hand, if we end up with mediocore goaltending and only a marginally improved group of skaters, such a approach would probably live in infamy.

[Rangers1994]

9 hours ago, Pete said:

I just can't see paying Igor 10+ and being able to field a winning team. 

 

My opinion - 4-5 years.  Not one penny above $9 million per year.

[Pete]

8 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Who do you think they could get for Igor?

I haven't even begun to think about it to be honest, but what I really feel is...(Continued below)

7 hours ago, Sod16 said:

I'm vexed by this and so may be Drury, or at least he should be.  I guess on balance I'm ready to pay it, but with serious misgivings.  A trade this summer would yield quite a catch and yield cap space for other endeavors.  On the other hand, if we end up with mediocore goaltending and only a marginally improved group of skaters, such a approach would probably live in infamy.

This is probably the best team(s) you could ever ice in front of Igor in his prime. He's 28. Chances are he will remain as good as he is now and then begin a decline in a couple of years. They took their cracks at it with Igor on a value contract. 

 

As soon as you throw a bag at him,  It's going to be really hard to ice a team in front of him that can fill the net.

 

Historically the most successful teams have had players on real value contracts, really underpaid guys or guys who took less to keep the team together. If everyone insists on "being paid what they're worth", You just can't keep those teams together. If Igor wants to be paid what he is worth, why shouldn't Laffy? Fox already got a bag. 

 

• Crosby and his team took less. 
• Chara/Bergeron and his team took less. 
• As soon as the Blackhawks gave Kane and Toews the bag it got really hard to win. 
• Knights had guys like Chandler Stevenson and JAM giving out size value to their deals. 
• Florida has Reinhart and Verhaege and Forsling making much less than they're worth. 
• Edmonton can argue Draisaitl is underpaid and they're going to give him the bag in his next deal, what's that going to do to their team when McDavid wants more also? 
• Tampa needed to put Kuch on LTIR after paying Vasy, and now they've begun their decline

 

I just don't see goaltending as a position You can spend 10 million plus on and still win unless you get really lucky. 

 

Luck is not a strategy. Part of me thinks they should just start tearing it down right now. Trade Igor, Kreider, Trouba, Lindgren, etc and Panarin at next deadline (cuz they ain't making playoffs anyway). See what Trocheck is down for. You're going to need centers, it's an organizational need. Maybe he is just a veteran presence.

 

They took their swings. There's nobody worth keeping beyond Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, and Fox of your next window starts when Perrault gets here. 

Edited June 11 by Pete

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

My opinion - 4-5 years.  Not one penny above $9 million per year.

That's great but he has to agree with that and all indications are that he isn't. 

[Rangers1994]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I haven't even begun to think about it to be honest, but what I really feel is...(Continued below)

This is probably the best team(s) you could ever ice in front of Igor in his prime. He's 28. Chances are he will remain as good as he is now and then begin a decline in a couple of years. They took their cracks at it with Igor on a value contract. 

 

As soon as you throw a bag at him,  It's going to be really hard to ice a team in front of him that can fill the net.

 

Historically the most successful teams have had players on real value contracts, really underpaid guys or guys who took less to keep the team together. If everyone insists on "being paid what they're worth", You just can't keep those teams together. If Igor wants to be paid what he is worth, why shouldn't Laffy? Fox already got a bag. 

 

Crosby and his team took less. 

Chara/Bergeron and his team took less. 

As soon as the Blackhawks gave Kane and Toews the bag it got really hard to win. 

Knights had guys like Chandler Stevenson and JAM giving out size value to their deals. 

Florida has Reinhart and Verhaege and Forsling making much less than they're worth. 

Edmonton can argue Draisaitl is underpaid and they're going to give him the bag in his next deal, what's that going to do to their team when McDavid wants more also? 

 

I just don't see goaltending as a position You can spend 10 million plus on and still win unless you get really lucky. 

 

Luck is not a strategy. Part of me thinks they should just start tearing it down right now. Trade Igor, Kreider, Trouba, Lindgren, etc and Panarin at next deadline (cuz they ain't making playoffs anyway). See what Trocheck is down for. You're going to need centers, it's an organizational need. Maybe he is just a veteran presence.

 

They took their swings. There's nobody worth keeping beyond Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, and Fox of your next window starts when Perrault gets here. 

 

Let's see what happens this coming season.  I still say give Igor 4-5 years.  And not one penny above $9 million per year.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

Let's see what happens this coming season.  I still say give Igor 4-5 years.  And not one penny above $9 million per year.

I know. You just said that. What I'm telling you is he has to agree to it and all indications are that he wants to be the highest paid goalie in the league. 

[jsm7302]

52 minutes ago, Pete said:

I know. You just said that. What I'm telling you is he has to agree to it and all indications are that he wants to be the highest paid goalie in the league. 

That's how it seems per media reports. What's our goalie future look like in Hartford? Any 7th round draft picks looking promising?

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I haven't even begun to think about it to be honest, but what I really feel is...(Continued below)

This is probably the best team(s) you could ever ice in front of Igor in his prime. He's 28. Chances are he will remain as good as he is now and then begin a decline in a couple of years. They took their cracks at it with Igor on a value contract. 

 

As soon as you throw a bag at him,  It's going to be really hard to ice a team in front of him that can fill the net.

 

Historically the most successful teams have had players on real value contracts, really underpaid guys or guys who took less to keep the team together. If everyone insists on "being paid what they're worth", You just can't keep those teams together. If Igor wants to be paid what he is worth, why shouldn't Laffy? Fox already got a bag. 

 

• Crosby and his team took less. 
• Chara/Bergeron and his team took less. 
• As soon as the Blackhawks gave Kane and Toews the bag it got really hard to win. 
• Knights had guys like Chandler Stevenson and JAM giving out size value to their deals. 
• Florida has Reinhart and Verhaege and Forsling making much less than they're worth. 
• Edmonton can argue Draisaitl is underpaid and they're going to give him the bag in his next deal, what's that going to do to their team when McDavid wants more also? 
• Tampa needed to put Kuch on LTIR after paying Vasy, and now they've begun their decline

 

I just don't see goaltending as a position You can spend 10 million plus on and still win unless you get really lucky. 

 

Luck is not a strategy. Part of me thinks they should just start tearing it down right now. Trade Igor, Kreider, Trouba, Lindgren, etc and Panarin at next deadline (cuz they ain't making playoffs anyway). See what Trocheck is down for. You're going to need centers, it's an organizational need. Maybe he is just a veteran presence.

 

They took their swings. There's nobody worth keeping beyond Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, and Fox of your next window starts when Perrault gets here. 

Add to it that you can get a pretty penny in return for an Igor trade now. If you throw that away and you also don’t re-sign him, that’s one hell of an all-in move on next year before he walks. Pair that with making the post-Panarin team significantly weaker because you didn’t cash in the Igor ticket. All of it is absolved if they did it and won a Cup next year, but I just don’t see them as close enough with the right mix even if you do.

 

I don’t think Drury has the balls to trade Igor. I’ll be fair on it though. It’s a really hard move to make. Really hard.

[RJWantsTheCup]

They could always play out the season and then trade his rights away for a #1 pick before free agency starts.

I read Carolina is trying to do that with Guentzel.

[BreakawayMachine]

To New Jersey

Shesterkin

Kaappo

3rd

 

To New York

1st, 2nd

Dawson Mercer

Luke Hughes

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

5 minutes ago, BreakawayMachine said:

To New Jersey

Shesterkin

Kaappo

3rd

 

To New York

1st, 2nd

Dawson Mercer

Luke Hughes

 

Jersey does need a goalie, but I doubt they trade Hughes.

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Add to it that you can get a pretty penny in return for an Igor trade now. If you throw that away and you also don’t re-sign him, that’s one hell of an all-in move on next year before he walks. Pair that with making the post-Panarin team significantly weaker because you didn’t cash in the Igor ticket. All of it is absolved if they did it and won a Cup next year, but I just don’t see them as close enough with the right mix even if you do.

 

I don’t think Drury has the balls to trade Igor. I’ll be fair on it though. It’s a really hard move to make. Really hard.

There's not many GMs who would do it.

 

I think we are not always so far off on this team and what it comes down to is a matter of nuance and understanding that a certain amount of sports is luck. 

 

I think the Rangers are a good team who didn't get much luck in terms of matchup and officiating in the playoffs. Some others might think the Rangers aren't good and are just lucky, and I don't really agree with that at all. 

 

I also look at Florida and understand that they also had a ton of luck in addition to being really fucking good. They had an insane amount of good fortune...

• Tkachuk forcing a trade there 
• Reinhart giving them 100 points for 6 million 
• Verhaege giving them 40 goals for 4 million
• Forsling another value contract and waiver acquisition 
• Listerine-man, Bennett, Montour were basically cast offs 
• They got really good matchups in the conference final and Stanley Cup final this season 
• The officiating is catering to them 

There are seven bullets there and even if anyone disagreed that three of them were lucky, That's only half so that's a lot of fucking luck. 

 

So that's all of it to say what I've been saying, the Rangers are handcuffed and if they have to run it back then they have to run it back. I'm not going to act like it'll be a lost season. They'll need luck, and every team needs luck. I just don't think they depend on luck the way others might.

 

And at the same time if they decided to pull that trigger and trade Igor and take what you can get for RFAs and NTCs to completely change the dynamic of the team and build around Lafreniere, Fox, Miller, Schneider, Othmann, Perrault, etc... I'd be behind that, too.

 

The margins are that fucking thin and the windows close that quick. 

Edited June 11 by Pete

[Sod16]

There's a large "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" factor here.  If Drury doesn't sign Igor and they don't win the cup, large elements will call him the worst GM in history.