2024 Off-season Thread: Burn in Effigy

[Jdog99]

Mika's been tried with a whole host of partners over the past few years.

 

He's been been separated from kreider at points, he's had the opportunity to play with panarin, he's been tried with kakko, laf, tarasenko, kane, vesey, roslovic...

 

you could point to zucc and buch being the last best options he had on the right...but i think its equally likely that hes just been in decline and even if you bought buch back the line wouldn't perform like it used to.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

Every time the broadcasts talked about ‘94

[Keirik]

10 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

So really, just the $2M hit after the fact while saving 50% the next two seasons?

 

I might be okay with that. Especially with the cap going up.

 

You can’t have this guy here any longer. He is just terrible.

The problem is that the money you save is likely already spoken for in future raises for Shesty or Laf who can be negotiated with when the season starts I believe. You're really going to want to get rid of Troubas full cap instead of taking a penalty and that likely only happens if you really sweeten the pot and just so happen to find a partner in  the list of teams he's willing to go to. Or take back a problem. 

[mbob]

19 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Every time the broadcasts talked about ‘94

At the time, I didn’t think Sam actually meant literally, “this one will last a lifetime”. I was expecting another by now. 

Edited June 2 by mbob

[Bugg]

7 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Every time the broadcasts talked about ‘94

Part of me really hates that empty '94 nostalgia. Always gonna appreciate 1994, but it's also reminder how Neil Smith managed to screw  up a shot at even more by trading away Zubov and others, and hiring a bum like Colin Campbell. Had a nice run in 1997 with 11 and 99 and then screwed up the Messier/Sakic summer to boot. For all the odes written about that team, it got really dark after that because of those bad decisions. Like Lundqvist's entire career , a lost opportunity. 

[Karan]

25 minutes ago, Keirik said:

If they bought him out this offseason, you are looking at a 4m cap hit for 24/25 and 25/26, then a 2m cap hit for 26/27 and 27/28. 
 

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/jacob-trouba

 

I don't know why I have this feeling that if Trouba is bought out, he signs for a Carolina or Pittsburgh for $1M and actually starts looking like a legit NHL defender again (albeit in a reduced role) lol 

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

The biggest reason I believe they run it back is that the guys everyone wants to be traded are only going to be traded with retention or an equally bad deal coming back and the Rangers just can't afford that, or buyouts.

 

So I think what happens is they take 2 more cracks at it with what they have, by then Lafreniere is 24 and probably much more ready to carry a team than he is now.

 

The only tradeable contracts are Trouba with retention and Kreider where you probably don't need to retain and the package would be sweet.

 

I guess my point is they can tear it down now and be in cap hell for a good amount of time or just ship those two out and try and retool before letting players go via UFA (Panarin).

Yeah but what team will he have to carry? You have to set him up for success and start finding pieces who can contribute to a Lafreniere-led team.

 

I’m not sure what scenario I laid out that I like better, by the way. Try to contain your excitement, but if they truly want to start looking at setting up for two years from now, it’s probably the burn out Panarin’s contract and cash in on a Kreider trade. To be clear, and you may not agree, but this would make the team significantly worse next year. They aren’t replacing Kreider’s production with anyone they bring on for that cap hit. I also don’t care. The critical part is getting the return right. I’d be looking for the best young 20s RW they can land. One step back now to take two or three steps forward later.

 

Laf-Zib-A

Panarin-Trocheck-B

Cuylle-Chytil-C

D-E-F

 

Solve for A through F.

 

I also think they should take advantage of Goodrow’s playoff performance and get the contract off the books. Start cleaning up the cap sheet. In 2 years, Zib should be the only questionable contract on the roster.

[BrooksBurner]

Dupe

Edited June 2 by BrooksBurner

[LindG1000]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Yeah but what team will he have to carry? You have to set him up for success and start finding pieces who can contribute to a Lafreniere-led team.

 

I’m not sure what scenario I laid out that I like better, by the way. Try to contain your excitement, but if they truly want to start looking at setting up for two years from now, it’s probably the burn out Panarin’s contract and cash in on a Kreider trade. To be clear, and you may not agree, but this would make the team significantly worse next year. They aren’t replacing Kreider’s production with anyone they bring on for that cap hit. I also don’t care. The critical part is getting the return right. I’d be looking for the best young 20s RW they can land. One step back now to take two or three steps forward later.

 

Laf-Zib-A

Panarin-Trocheck-B

Cuylle-Chytil-C

D-E-F

 

Solve for A through F.

 

I also think they should take advantage of Goodrow’s playoff performance and get the contract off the books. Start cleaning up the cap sheet. In 2 years, Zib should be the only questionable contract on the roster.

 

There are some reasonably quick answers to most of those questions. Othmann is probably your C. Laf is actually your B, Perreault might be your "real B" (in the 1LW spot), Edstrom is probably D - he's good enough for that. E and F are revolving doors. It's also 2 years down the road - that's a long ass time.

 

Regardless, I'll say a few quick things here:

 

1 - Panarin's contract is not an issue and shouldn't be seen that way. He'll re-up at cheaper as he ages, and that's fine. I can think of worse players to have aging down at exactly the right time, and his style of play doesn't age poorly. He's not going to just hit a wall at 35 or something.

2 - I do not drop the puck on 2024-25 with Jacob Trouba on this roster. Our breakout issues, our defensive lapses, something like 70% of the 5v5 goals against in the playoffs were with him on the ice doing some damn fool thing. He's done here, and I bet we can get value for him because NHL GMs just love those intangibles. He can play, he just can't play Laviolette's system - that's fine. Go away. Slap the C on Trocheck or Kreider or Laf - don't care who.

3 - I do not think this team needs a full on overhaul. I think it's in need of a few changes around the edges. Get a better third pair - Gus and Trouba ain't it. One more year of development for Schneider and Miller will go a long way. Get more physical bottom 6 players - where's Wennberg with jam? Get that guy. Get another Cuylle-like guy. If we're going to play this way, we need a bottom 6 that absolutely punishes defenses - hits them, makes them work harder than they've ever had to, makes them make mistakes from sheer exhaustion.

[Abe Froman]

3 hours ago, Flynn said:

Trying not to be over reactionary in response to a really disappointing seasons end. But I’m struggling to find the silver lining. 
 

the NHL has a clear hierarchy 

1. Teams built to win Championships 

2. Teams positioned to take the next step to Cup contender status. 
3. Good- winning teams who just don’t have the horses

4. Franchises that’s want to make money (or not lose money) more than they want to win

5. Rebuilders. Some are perpetually here, but there is an attempt.

6. The shit. See- former Arizona. 
 

the Rangers are firmly in tier 3. A good to really good team that doesn’t have the pieces to take the last couple steps. Unfortunately the roster as it is currently structured- lousy with NMC’s- making the necessary changes are going to be damn near impossible to pull off. 
 

We need to hope Drury is a magician.  
 

Ripping on Panarin, Mika, Trouba, Kreider (the best contract of that group by a magnitude of 100) seems fruitless at this point. These guys are the built in furniture that comes with the house- we are stuck with this core. 
 

We need to hope Laf continues to grow, Trocheck to assume more and more of a leadership role. (Trouba being the C is a joke). The young D needs to take a giant leap. 
 

it’s just disappointing because you have an all world goalie and the moves you can make are bottom 6 and 6th D type moves. This core has great dudes, fantastic statistical performers- but not guys who are built to win an ECF or SC. 

I’ve seen this movie before with Hank I didn’t like that ending. This one has the same script. 

 

Fuck everything. 

As my niece or nephews would say, "facts". 

[Br4d]

Panarin is a huge issue.

 

Unless the Rangers decide to skip the playoffs the next two seasons.

 

I don't want to see him scoring 100 pts in the regular season next year and then vanishing in the playoffs again.  It's just not worth the cost of not finding his replacement which is 100% what we will do if he is still here next season.

 

The opportunity cost of playing Artemi Panarin in the regular season is that everybody suffers again once the playoffs begin.

[Pete]

46 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Yeah but what team will he have to carry? You have to set him up for success and start finding pieces who can contribute to a Lafreniere-led team.

 

I’m not sure what scenario I laid out that I like better, by the way. Try to contain your excitement, but if they truly want to start looking at setting up for two years from now, it’s probably the burn out Panarin’s contract and cash in on a Kreider trade. To be clear, and you may not agree, but this would make the team significantly worse next year. They aren’t replacing Kreider’s production with anyone they bring on for that cap hit. I also don’t care. The critical part is getting the return right. I’d be looking for the best young 20s RW they can land. One step back now to take two or three steps forward later.

 

Laf-Zib-A

Panarin-Trocheck-B

Cuylle-Chytil-C

D-E-F

 

Solve for A through F.

 

I also think they should take advantage of Goodrow’s playoff performance and get the contract off the books. Start cleaning up the cap sheet. In 2 years, Zib should be the only questionable contract on the roster.

There will be pieces young and older. Perrault and a bunch of kids, coming up next year and the year after, and a dose of UFA, the trade pieces coming back from selling CK and AP. They'll be ready to seriously contend when Laffy in peaking at 27/28/29.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

Panarin is a huge issue.

 

Unless the Rangers decide to skip the playoffs the next two seasons.

 

I don't want to see him scoring 100 pts in the regular season next year and then vanishing in the playoffs again.  It's just not worth the cost of not finding his replacement which is 100% what we will do if he is still here next season.

 

The opportunity cost of playing Artemi Panarin in the regular season is that everybody suffers again once the playoffs begin.

Think in the right situation, Panarin can be still be very productive in the regular season. And he wasn't a zero in the playoffs. Without looking he had a mess of assists on Tro's goals and 4 GWGs in the early rounds.  If you had a bottom 6 that was bruising up the opposition a bit, could see much more open ice. Instead 3rd line was Jerry's Kids, 4th line in flux every night, all playoffs. The NMC means rather than major trades, it's gonna be the 3rd and 4th lines that change, be it cheap FAs or the kids. 

 

The PP was geared to getting Mika his nightly braindead one timers that every opposing team knows is coming. Keeps coming back to Mika, between salary and lack of production, is the real stumbling block. 

[Scott]

I struggle to see any team seeing value in Trouba at the full price tag and that's only complicated by his modified NTC, and the fact that his borderline or worse hits are always going to be scrutinized.  I don't think he suffers because of the system regardless of who's system it is, I think he suffers because he's running out of talent at a record pace again especially at the price tag.  Trading him with retention or taking back a shit contract may help some $$) but not that much. Addition by subtraction, sure but if they don't have someone to actually take his spot and contribute there's little improvement there. The fact that they gave him the C is scary, was then and even more so now. 

 

Lot's of talk about the cap going up, it's not going up that much and just retaining the guys you actually want to retain is going to eat through almost all of whatever increases there are on the cap side. I don't see there's enough scenarios where you can solidify the group enough where you can be anywhere near this successful without Igor who's got only one year left on is deal. To me resigning him is the priority (when planning $$'s) because without him carrying this team into the one shot games, they're beyond fucked.

 

With each year burning off there becomes more questions than answers.

Edited June 2 by Scott

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, LindG1000 said:

 

There are some reasonably quick answers to most of those questions. Othmann is probably your C. Laf is actually your B, Perreault might be your "real B" (in the 1LW spot), Edstrom is probably D - he's good enough for that. E and F are revolving doors. It's also 2 years down the road - that's a long ass time.

 

Regardless, I'll say a few quick things here:

 

1 - Panarin's contract is not an issue and shouldn't be seen that way. He'll re-up at cheaper as he ages, and that's fine. I can think of worse players to have aging down at exactly the right time, and his style of play doesn't age poorly. He's not going to just hit a wall at 35 or something.

2 - I do not drop the puck on 2024-25 with Jacob Trouba on this roster. Our breakout issues, our defensive lapses, something like 70% of the 5v5 goals against in the playoffs were with him on the ice doing some damn fool thing. He's done here, and I bet we can get value for him because NHL GMs just love those intangibles. He can play, he just can't play Laviolette's system - that's fine. Go away. Slap the C on Trocheck or Kreider or Laf - don't care who.

3 - I do not think this team needs a full on overhaul. I think it's in need of a few changes around the edges. Get a better third pair - Gus and Trouba ain't it. One more year of development for Schneider and Miller will go a long way. Get more physical bottom 6 players - where's Wennberg with jam? Get that guy. Get another Cuylle-like guy. If we're going to play this way, we need a bottom 6 that absolutely punishes defenses - hits them, makes them work harder than they've ever had to, makes them make mistakes from sheer exhaustion.

We fundamentally disagree on a lot here.

 

Lafreniere did well to produce offensively at RW, but he struggled defensively and I think at least part of that was the switch over. Part of buying into him as the future is putting him in the spot he can be most successful. I think that’s LW. Now if that’s changed from his POV then OK, but no more shoehorning him on the right because the team needs it. Do it because it’s the right thing to do for Laf. If it’s not, then don’t do it. Simple.

 

Don’t agree at all on the Panarin take. His contract is a massive problem and making any more decisions that involve winning around him is a fool’s errand. His style of play may not age poorly in the regular season, but his style of play sucks in the postseason. I care more about the postseason. Panarin wouldn’t be anywhere in my future plans.

 

The team isn’t a Jacob Trouba out and a couple of changes around the edges away from being real Cup contenders. In fact, I think dumping Trouba at all costs just increases the likelihood of getting into another win now, bad contract in an attempt to win with what’s here again. Big N-O from me.

 

 

Edited June 2 by BrooksBurner

[Red White and Brew]

15 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

It will be, and it should be, blown up.

 

This is a disgrace.

 

I have never been sicker to my stomach about a lost season than this.

 

This was a missed opportunity. And this is something that will haunt this franchise.

 

The coach wore it last year. The core will this year.

 

An absolute and utter catastrophe.

This is the problem with a team that has relied on superb special teams play and mediocre 5v5 play. 
 

The reality is the Rangers got elite goaltending, but the special teams suffered and 5v5 didn’t improve. 
 

Add to it the Rangers stars didn’t play like stars and it’s another year of reflection. Shame too, because I think we beat the Stars or Oilers. 
 

Not a ton of flexibility, but Rangers needs to move on from Trouba and Goodrow (12m combined) and should consider what they can get for Panarin. Superb regular season player but overpaid for what he is producing in the playoffs now on back to back years. 
 

Future with Igor and defense should still be bright but they need to invest in offenses this team will be too similar to the teams of years past. When you have elite goaltending, give them some help on the other end. It’s why not resigning Vatrano and trading Buch will haunt this team. Been searching for 1RW for too long. 

[Red White and Brew]

15 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

There’s gonna be some hot headed takes in this thread, but at the end of the day they lost to a better team in game 6 in the ECF.

 

We all hoped for a Cup, but there’s only one winner every year and although they had a great regular season we all knew there probably was a few better teams. We ran into one of them and did get the necessary bounces. It sucks, but it is what it is.

we were outplayed in our last 11 playoff games and only because of Igor managed to go 5-6

[Blueshirts1926]

Oh well going to say it anyway, my 2 cents

 

1.) If you cannot move Panarin, Kreider or ZIb then Trouba at least MUST go

2.) Zib needs to be broken up from Kreider and establish is own identity of I will  be a great Ranger or in Kreider's shadow

 

Players NOT RETURNING: Gus, Kakko, Wheeler, Wennburg and Roslovic

 

Players to SIGN: Lindgren & Schneider maybe 3 years

 

Free Agents: Raymond Lucas, Seth Jarvis. Shayne Gotisbehere or Flip Hronek if Harpur or Mackey can't step up.

                      Could Stamkos be worth 2 years from and dying Tampa team

                      We won't get Reinhart

                      Maybe Drouin 3 years or  Duchene for 2 years

                      Guentzel is to injury prone for the long run

                      Marcheessault to old vs Stamkos

 

My opening day roster:

 

1^st Line:   LW Panarin  -  C Trockek  - RW Laffy (he will hit 75 points this coming season)

2^nd Line:  LW Kreider  -  C Goodrow  - RW Raymond ( FA - Lucas Raymond - 72 pts - 22yrs old, cheap)

3^rd Line:   LW Cuylle  -  C Mika  -  RW Jarvis ( FA - Seth Jarvis - 65 pts - 22yrs old - cheap) (Cuylle 35pts this season)

4^th Line:   LW Othmann  -  C Chytl  -  RW Vesey (serviceable)

 

Really go for it and go after Quinton Byfield move him to 2C and Goodrow to 4C which at that point allows to move on from Chtyl. Its time to let the younger kids play or they never learn what it takes to excel. Mika now has to step and QB his to wingers or send him packing.

 

Miller - Fox

Harpur or Mackey – Jones (Jones proved to you this year when Trouba was down)

Lindgreen – Schneider

Or add a veteran free agent like Flip Hronek or Shayne Gotisbehere

 

PP1 - Panarin - Trocheck - Kreider - Chytl - Fox

 

PP2 - Zib - Laffy - Raymond - Lucas - Miller (or Hronek or Shayne Gotisbehere)

 

They have off season and pre-season to get to know each other and hug! We are wasting Igors prime.

 

Edited June 2 by Blueshirts1926

[jsm7302]

Hahaha Wennberg on line 1 in a do or die where we struggled scoring. Desperation move and not a good one at that.

[Flynn]

Jarvis is an RFA and Carolina has a shit ton of cap room. Raymond is an RFA as well..  In no universe are either of these guys either “cheap” or attainable. 

[Keirik]

3 hours ago, LindG1000 said:

 

There are some reasonably quick answers to most of those questions. Othmann is probably your C. Laf is actually your B, Perreault might be your "real B" (in the 1LW spot), Edstrom is probably D - he's good enough for that. E and F are revolving doors. It's also 2 years down the road - that's a long ass time.

 

Regardless, I'll say a few quick things here:

 

1 - Panarin's contract is not an issue and shouldn't be seen that way. He'll re-up at cheaper as he ages, and that's fine. I can think of worse players to have aging down at exactly the right time, and his style of play doesn't age poorly. He's not going to just hit a wall at 35 or something.

2 - I do not drop the puck on 2024-25 with Jacob Trouba on this roster. Our breakout issues, our defensive lapses, something like 70% of the 5v5 goals against in the playoffs were with him on the ice doing some damn fool thing. He's done here, and I bet we can get value for him because NHL GMs just love those intangibles. He can play, he just can't play Laviolette's system - that's fine. Go away. Slap the C on Trocheck or Kreider or Laf - don't care who.

3 - I do not think this team needs a full on overhaul. I think it's in need of a few changes around the edges. Get a better third pair - Gus and Trouba ain't it. One more year of development for Schneider and Miller will go a long way. Get more physical bottom 6 players - where's Wennberg with jam? Get that guy. Get another Cuylle-like guy. If we're going to play this way, we need a bottom 6 that absolutely punishes defenses - hits them, makes them work harder than they've ever had to, makes them make mistakes from sheer exhaustion.

 

[Myusername]

5 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

They can’t run it back with him. They just can’t. He is such a liability.

 

What would a buyout look like?

Holy hell, that is even more egregious on rewatch than I first thought. I mean, that this junior level stuff from him

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Red White and Brew said:

we were outplayed in our last 11 playoff games and only because of Igor managed to go 5-6

Now it went from being just the panther series to Carolina, too? Come on man. 

[Valriera]

I’d like to remind everyone toying with fantasies of roster changes that the current team cannot actually be rolled back in two seasons. We are out of cap space. Next year we are fine in any circumstance, the year after our current roster will not be fine. We will lose all of lafreniere, miller, and Igor who are due massive raises if moves are not made to prepare for that.
 

The sane thing to do here is move Kreider now, who absolutely has value and can be traded for a good package to almost anyone, while that value is still sky high. It hurts, retire his jersey later, whatever. If you can find a taker for Trouba or Mika do that too, but both of those are unlikely this year for different reasons. Hope that next year they play better and their value is high enough to entice someone the following year. 

 

Kreider as the primary trade chip can certainly be used to lure younger talent out of a team who needs offense. Someone like Dakota Joshua in Vancouver comes to mind for me who is exactly the mold of who they need and swapping him plus picks for Kreider is not out of the question since it’s a contending team. 
 

The next move is you need to figure out what you’re signing Laf for now. It’s going to be long term and it’s going to be minimum 6 but who knows these days. Get the boat rolling there because that’s the future build around piece. Before that’s done I wouldn’t do anything else.

Edited June 2 by Valriera