Keep the Core

[Rangers1994]

This loss will sting for a while.  With that being said, the Rangers should be proud of what they accomplished this year.  They should keep their core players and coaching staff.  A few more tweaks may help them win in 1-2 years.

[BrooksBurner]

[Rangers1994]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

Then what do you suggest?

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

This loss will sting for a while.  With that being said, the Rangers should be proud of what they accomplished this year.  They should keep their core players and coaching staff.  A few more tweaks may help them win in 1-2 years.

I think some may agree with this sentiment but I don't think anyone agrees with who the core is.

 

Moreover, the reality is it's going to be really hard to change the team significantly without some level of miracle regarding trade protection. 

 

So Knowing what we know, without the what-ifs, is that it's highly likely this team is largely run back next season. 

 

And again I'm only saying the probability is high knowing what we know for a fact which is there's a lot of trade protection, of course it could be waived but that's a what if.

 

 

 

 

[Rangers1994]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think some may agree with this sentiment but I don't think anyone agrees with who the core is.

 

Moreover, the reality is it's going to be really hard to change the team significantly without some level of miracle regarding trade protection. 

 

So Knowing what we know, without the what-ifs, is that it's highly likely this team is largely run back next season. 

 

And again I'm only saying the probability is high knowing what we know for a fact which is there's a lot of trade protection, of course it could be waived but that's a what if.

 

 

 

 

 

They don't necessarily have to break up the core yet.  Keep it intact for another 1-2 years.  But maybe a few additions could help.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

They don't necessarily have to break up the core yet.  Keep it intact for another 1-2 years.  But maybe a few additions could help.

Who's your core?

[RichieNextel305]

That locker room needs loss. Period.

 

I don’t care who. 
 

Zibanejad. Kreider. Panarin.

 

A sizeable loss needs to happen.

 

If you can flip Mika, and free up some room for Stamkos, who can produce in the playoffs, I would do it at this point, to be perfectly honest.

[Rangers1994]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Who's your core?

 

Currently -

1_ Shesterkin

2) Trouba

3) Kreider

4) Fox

5) Trotchek

6) Panarin

7) Zibanejad

[Winter]

19 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

This loss will sting for a while.  With that being said, the Rangers should be proud of what they accomplished this year.  They should keep their core players and coaching staff.  A few more tweaks may help them win in 1-2 years.

 

Panarin to be 33

Zibanejad 31

Kreider 33

Trocheck to be 31

Trouba 30

Igor to be 29

 

these guys aren't going to get better, its only downhill from there. -- Igor has a few prime years left the rest, nope. 

[Rangers1994]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

That locker room needs loss. Period.

 

I don’t care who. 
 

Zibanejad. Kreider. Panarin.

 

A sizeable loss needs to happen.

 

If you can flip Mika, and free up some room for Stamkos, who can produce in the playoffs, I would do it at this point, to be perfectly honest.

 

Whom would you trade Zibeanejad for?

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

Currently -

1_ Shesterkin

2) Trouba

3) Kreider

4) Fox

5) Trotchek

6) Panarin

7) Zibanejad

And that's the problem...I disagree with at least 3 players in your list. I have no doubt others will have three players different from mine who they don't think are on the core either. 

 

So it's really hard to have a conversation on keeping the core when no one agrees on the core. Some people have a core that's based on their favorite players and other people have a core that's based on who's hardest to move other people base their core on other things. 

[Rangers1994]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

And that's the problem...I disagree with at least 3 players in your list. I have no doubt others will have three players different from mine who they don't think are on the core either. 

 

So it's really hard to have a conversation on keeping the core when no one agrees on the core. Some people have a core that's based on their favorite players and other people have a core that's based on who's hardest to move other people base their core on other things. 

Whom would you remove?

[RichieNextel305]

21 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

Whom would you trade Zibeanejad for?

A broken condom. And a bag of tampons. Used.

[Mistercosmic]

 

This core group is done. They had their chances and failed. Nice guys, very good hockey players (with the exception of Trouba, who stinks). But no champions. Not even close. I would even trade Shesty away, if I could get a 1C for him. Outstanding goalkeeping alone doesn't win you a cup and we're wasting his prime years. 

 

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

Whom would you remove?

In the right deal, anyone.

[Jdog99]

Aside from Trouba, whose move seems possible, Zibanejad is the only one im eager to see gone, but yea - doesn't seem likely given the NMC.

 

I think if Lavy just grew a pair and started playing hardball with Zib...knocking him down the lineup, taking him off pp1, getting in his mopey f'n face and benching him when needed...the result for the team as a whole could be very positive.

 

Then yea, maybe just add/modify a few of the supporting cast, push a harder style and culture, and theres still potentially room for improvement over this season.

 

Though my main concern would be this may have been lavys best, and its only downhill from here.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2 by Jdog99

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

Aside from Trouba, whose move seems possible, Zibanejad is the only one im eager to see gone, but yea - doesn't seem likely given the NMC.

 

I think if Lavy just grew a pair and started playing hardball with Zib...knocking him down the lineup, taking him off pp1, getting in his mopey f'n face and benching him when needed...the result for the team as a whole could be very positive.

 

Then yea, maybe just add/modify a few of the supporting cast, push a harder style and culture, and theres still potentially room for improvement over this season.

 

Though my main concern would be this may have been lavys best, and its only downhill from here.

 

 

 

 

I think a person like Laviolette is not going to employ any of the strategies your suggesting, and there's a good chance they would be quite ineffective with a player like Zibenajad.

 

The first step, which should have been taken this season, would be two separate Mika and Kreider. His struggles were pretty well outlined early in the year with the observation that he has to do more heavy lifting in getting the puck out of his own zone than a lot of other players.

 

Think about well the 2nd line played and one of the biggest reasons being any three of those players can transport the puck through the neutral zone and can gain the zone. 

 

Mika hasn't had one winger to do that, let alone two, since Buch.

 

He's a problem they're going to have to fix because it's highly unlikely he gets traded. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

I think some may agree with this sentiment but I don't think anyone agrees with who the core is.

 

Moreover, the reality is it's going to be really hard to change the team significantly without some level of miracle regarding trade protection. 

 

So Knowing what we know, without the what-ifs, is that it's highly likely this team is largely run back next season. 

 

And again I'm only saying the probability is high knowing what we know for a fact which is there's a lot of trade protection, of course it could be waived but that's a what if.

 

 

 

 

 

This.

 

There is no harm rolling them out there for one more year given that this is the last year on Igor's contract and then they are going to be at a true crossroads. At the end of his current contract, he is going to be almost 30 and looking for 9 million plus for term. It's kind of the same situation that they had with Lundqvist and we saw how crippling the last 3 years of that contract was.

 

Hopefully they don't do that, and a retooling will be necessary as they will have a younger core to build around in Fox, Lafrenaire, Miller, Schneider, and the rest in the pipeline that are considered TBD(Perrault, Othman, Cullye, Rempe, etc....) as they transition out of Panarin, Kreider, Zinenjad, and Trocheck. 

 

If you were going to make tweaks in advance of that retooling, I would be looking to move Trouba out and give the captaincy to someone else(or do the 4 A's thing again), and back fill through short term free agency. 8 million is way too much to pay a 3rd pair D, and we should be looking forward.

 

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

This.

 

There is no harm rolling them out there for one more year given that this is the last year on Igor's contract and then they are going to be at a true crossroads. At the end of his current contract, he is going to be almost 30 and looking for 9 million plus for term. It's kind of the same situation that they had with Lundqvist and we saw how crippling the last 3 years of that contract was.

 

Hopefully they don't do that, and a retooling will be necessary as they will have a younger core to build around in Fox, Lafrenaire, Miller, Schneider, and the rest in the pipeline that are considered TBD(Perrault, Othman, Cullye, Rempe, etc....) as they transition out of Panarin, Kreider, Zinenjad, and Trocheck. 

 

If you were going to make tweaks in advance of that retooling, I would be looking to move Trouba out and give the captaincy to someone else(or do the 4 A's thing again), and back fill through short term free agency. 8 million is way too much to pay a 3rd pair D, and we should be looking forward.

 

 

Yea, personally I'm not opposed to remaking a good amount of this roster. But the reality is that it doesn't look like they're going to be able to do that.

 

If that's the case, you have to look at the fact that they did a lot without having a 1RW or 3C and the fourth line never really developed a true identity. Go get those pieces, remove Gus and Trouba, add Jones and a 6D from Hartford... That might be all they get. 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Curious if Otthman can make the jump next year

[BrooksBurner]

7 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

Then what do you suggest?

Panarin and Trouba out. I think there will be growing agreement on Panarin, and heavy majority agreement on Trouba.

[Br4d]

7 hours ago, Pete said:

I think some may agree with this sentiment but I don't think anyone agrees with who the core is.

 

Moreover, the reality is it's going to be really hard to change the team significantly without some level of miracle regarding trade protection. 

 

So Knowing what we know, without the what-ifs, is that it's highly likely this team is largely run back next season. 

 

And again I'm only saying the probability is high knowing what we know for a fact which is there's a lot of trade protection, of course it could be waived but that's a what if.

 

 

 

 

 

They can't run the team back and have credibility any more than Toronto can run their roster back and have credibility.

 

The problem is that the problems are at the top of the roster.  That makes everything else very shaky in terms of playoff success.

[siddious]

13 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

Curious if Otthman can make the jump next year

He might have to because of cap reasons. 

[Br4d]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Panarin and Trouba out. I think there will be growing agreement on Panarin, and heavy majority agreement on Trouba.

 

Panarin and Trouba out and Mika and CK to lines 2 and 3 and very definitely separated.  Mika and CK are great penalty killers and it's fine for them to team up there and nowhere else.

 

PP1 - Laf, Tro, Fox, CK and fill-in the blank this off-season.

PP2 - Mika, Chytil, Miller, two young guys to be determined.

 

The core is rotten once the game becomes very physical or the other team has a lot of team speed or both.

 

You have to change the culture first into one where everybody is carrying their weight in the playoffs.  Nothing the Rangers do will be effective at winning a Stanley Cup until they make that change.

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

They can't run the team back and have credibility any more than Toronto can run their roster back and have credibility.

 

The problem is that the problems are at the top of the roster.  That makes everything else very shaky in terms of playoff success.

I think that just shows a lack of perspective, this team has been to the Eastern conference final two out of the last three years, they're not perennial first-round exits. It might not matter to you, but it matters. 

 

That's just to say that due to the trade protection there is a high probability that this team gets largely run back.

 

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Panarin and Trouba out and Mika and CK to lines 2 and 3 and very definitely separated.  Mika and CK are great penalty killers and it's fine for them to team up there and nowhere else.

 

PP1 - Laf, Tro, Fox, CK and fill-in the blank this off-season.

PP2 - Mika, Chytil, Miller, two young guys to be determined.

 

The core is rotten once the game becomes very physical or the other team has a lot of team speed or both.

 

You have to change the culture first into one where everybody is carrying their weight in the playoffs.  Nothing the Rangers do will be effective at winning a Stanley Cup until they make that change.

People need to be comfortable with the idea that Panarin will be here next season, because it's highly likely he will be. And I know there are a bunch of fantasies about taking him off the power play and punishing him and making him miserable, but that's not how any of this works. 

 

I think we need to operate as if he's going to be here, until he isn't. Frankly I think the only team with cap space to take him, with no playoff expectations, where he would actually waive is clause, is Chicago. But you can't give him away for nothing.