Keep the Core

[Br4d]

Pete, if they just run this back we're going to be having some version of the conversations we had about the Devils series and this series next season.

 

This is assuming that the NHL doesn't catch up in a hurry and make us irrelevant, which happens to teams where most of the talent is over 30 and gets run over in the playoffs.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

Pete, if they just run this back we're going to be having some version of the conversations we had about the Devils series and this series next season.

 

This is assuming that the NHL doesn't catch up in a hurry and make us irrelevant, which happens to teams where most of the talent is over 30 and gets run over in the playoffs.

And the bolded very well may happen. 

 

Regarding running it back, I'm not advocating that, but I prefer to dwell it in reality and not fantasy. There's a ton of trade protection on this team and it doesn't seem likely that anyone is willingly going to waive it.

 

Kreider and Trouba are two big pieces that are movable because they have lists. I don't need to repeat all this, this is all well known. I am choosing to operate as if these guys with full NMCs are going to be on the team until they aren't. 

[Br4d]

The 3 main guys that can be moved this season are Fox, Trouba and Kreider.

 

I don't think Drury is going to let his hand be forced by NMC's.  Particularly if Laviolette decides to stick around for another go, which I don't know to be a certainty at this point.

[Pete]

Let his hand be forced? He has no leverage when a player has a full NMC. 

[Valriera]

Even moving kreider and trouba is fine, you don’t need to blow up the whole thing. 
 

We need the rough equivalent of huberdeau trade

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Let his hand be forced? He has no leverage when a player has a full NMC. 

 

The conditions of employment can be made to meet the minimums required by the CBA.

 

There are ways to pressure people to accept a change.

 

For Mika the Rangers could just go full-bore on making him not part of the core.

 

No power play, because frankly he's not a good power play player at this point.  Line 3 with grinders on each side of him to minimize the damage when he disappears.  Ice time appropriate to that role.

 

At the moment the Rangers have Tro for line 1.  We have Chytil for line 2 and we probably should have real line 2 options for C if Chytil gets hurt again.

 

The point is that what Mika does is still valuable, defensively and on the PK, but at 5v5 offense he is not a particularly good player at this point.

 

The value defensively and on the PK will make him an attractive trade option if we can get him to the point that he no longer feels like NYR is the welcoming destination.

 

"There's no Mope in NY!"

[Pete]

Just now, Br4d said:

The conditions of employment can be made to meet the minimums required by the CBA.

 

There are ways to pressure people to accept a change.

Like I said, I prefer to live in reality and not deal in fantasy. 

[siddious]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The conditions of employment can be made to meet the minimums required by the CBA.

 

There are ways to pressure people to accept a change.

 

For Mika the Rangers could just go full-bore on making him not part of the core.

 

No power play, because frankly he's not a good power play player at this point.  Line 3 with grinders on each side of him to minimize the damage when he disappears.  Ice time appropriate to that role.

 

At the moment the Rangers have Tro for line 1.  We have Chytil for line 2 and we probably should have real line 2 options for C if Chytil gets hurt again.

 

The point is that what Mika does is still valuable, defensively and on the PK, but at 5v5 offense he is not a particularly good player at this point.

 

The value defensively and on the PK will make him an attractive trade option if we can get him to the point that he no longer feels like NYR is the welcoming destination.

 

"There's no Mope in NY!"

This isn’t a thing.

 

you don’t do that simply because you want to remain an attractive destination for future free agents. 
 

if you’re set on getting rid of him you sit down and explore options. If he straight up says no you don’t have much of a choice besides maybe a buyout. 

[Br4d]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think that just shows a lack of perspective, this team has been to the Eastern conference final two out of the last three years, they're not perennial first-round exits. It might not matter to you, but it matters. 

 

That's just to say that due to the trade protection there is a high probability that this team gets largely run back.

 

People need to be comfortable with the idea that Panarin will be here next season, because it's highly likely he will be. And I know there are a bunch of fantasies about taking him off the power play and punishing him and making him miserable, but that's not how any of this works. 

 

I think we need to operate as if he's going to be here, until he isn't. Frankly I think the only team with cap space to take him, with no playoff expectations, where he would actually waive is clause, is Chicago. But you can't give him away for nothing.

 

With Panarin it's addition by subtraction.  We've seen the act.  It must be tremendously frustrating for his coaches and teammates that he disappears to the perimeter when the going gets tough.

 

If he'll waive for Chicago you get a decent RD from them, doesn't have to be a star, to replace Trouba and let him go.

 

If he'd played the entire Panther's series the way he played the last 5 minutes we'd still likely be going.

[Br4d]

2 minutes ago, siddious said:

This isn’t a thing.

 

you don’t do that simply because you want to remain an attractive destination for future free agents. 
 

if you’re set on getting rid of him you sit down and explore options. If he straight up says no you don’t have much of a choice besides maybe a buyout. 

 

I'd almost rather blow up our future presentation to free agents than run it back the way it is.

 

I'm 63 years old and I'm not waiting till 2054 for the next Stanley Cup.

 

The Rangers are the perfect example of when urgency is not only needed but required because this core is on the way out in the next couple of seasons no matter what.  Better to take the bull by the horns and do all the heavy lifting at once and give Laviolette time to try to whip the new team into shape before he's ready to leave also.

 

And everybody who is saying he's a great coach - the answer to that is great coaches don't win Stanley Cups.  Great teams win Stanley Cups and the Rangers are in no way a great team right now.  They need a lot of maintenance and more than a little luck to get there.

[Br4d]

What the Rangers need right now is a letter.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

With Panarin it's addition by subtraction.  We've seen the act.  It must be tremendously frustrating for his coaches and teammates that he disappears to the perimeter when the going gets tough.

 

If he'll waive for Chicago you get a decent RD from them, doesn't have to be a star, to replace Trouba and let him go.

 

If he'd played the entire Panther's series the way he played the last 5 minutes we'd still likely be going.

Addition by subtraction is a reach. Moving a guy like PLD is addition by subtraction. 

 

Panarin did a lot but he didn't do enough, yet the reality is you still need to play 82 games to get to the playoffs. You can't just give away 100+ points. You have to get something back. And that's going to be really hard to find a trade partner for.

[BrooksBurner]

It’s been said before and it has to be said again. The way you lose matters. ECF 2 out of 3 years is nice, but the way they lost both series highlights the issues. Panarin and Trouba are the two biggest issues.

 

If they are stuck with Panarin taking up the cap he is, it’s not even worth trying to go all in at any stage to win the whole thing for two more seasons. That changes how Drury should approach trading, contracts, and assets that can be dealt at the deadline for what will still be a competitive (but not Cup worthy) team. I actually think Drury already feels this way. That’s why he went cheap at the deadline for a “President’s Trophy” team.

[Rangers1994]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

Addition by subtraction is a reach. Moving a guy like PLD is addition by subtraction. 

 

Panarin did a lot but he didn't do enough, yet the reality is you still need to play 82 games to get to the playoffs. You can't just give away 100+ points. You have to get something back. And that's going to be really hard to find a trade partner for.

 

Trade Panarin after the season he just had?  I would give him until the trade deadline in 2026.

[Br4d]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

It’s been said before and it has to be said again. The way you lose matters. ECF 2 out of 3 years is nice, but the way they lost both series highlights the issues. Panarin and Trouba are the two biggest issues.

 

If they are stuck with Panarin taking up the cap he is, it’s not even worth trying to go all in at any stage to win the whole thing for two more seasons. That changes how Drury should approach trading, contracts, and assets that can be dealt at the deadline for what will still be a competitive (but not Cup worthy) team. I actually think Drury already feels this way. That’s why he went cheap at the deadline for a “President’s Trophy” team.

 

If this is where Drury is then he needs to go also.

 

Toronto fired their GM last season because building a great regular season roster is not the job description.

 

If the Rangers wait two years to resolve most of the issues they will lose the next window without accomplishing anything they haven't already accomplished in this one.

 

We *know* what the problems are.  We talked about them all last year after the Devil's series.  There's no excuse for not trying to manage them.

 

If the NMC's are allowed to rule the Rangers are a Zombie team with all the flaws and warts we've already seen.

[Phil]

8 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

This loss will sting for a while.  With that being said, the Rangers should be proud of what they accomplished this year.  They should keep their core players and coaching staff.  A few more tweaks may help them win in 1-2 years.

 

Their "core" 1C had 8 goals and 17 even strength assists this season.

Their biggest "core" forwards combined for zero goals and zero ES points in the entire ECF.

Their "core" defense got caved in nightly, including their 1D, who was turnstiled every night.

 

They may not have a choice but to come back with the same core because of how much trade protection they have, but in no world should this be the operating desire.

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

 

If this is where Drury is then he needs to go also.

 

Toronto fired their GM last season because building a great regular season roster is not the job description.

 

If the Rangers wait two years to resolve most of the issues they will lose the next window without accomplishing anything they haven't already accomplished in this one.

 

We *know* what the problems are.  We talked about them all last year after the Devil's series.  There's no excuse for not trying to manage them.

 

If the NMC's are allowed to rule the Rangers are a Zombie team with all the flaws and warts we've already seen.

Drury inherited the Panarin and Trouba contracts though. That means he inherited the two biggest issues. He can try all he wants to trade Panarin, but if Panarin says no without any room for negotiation then Drury’s hands are tied there and it’s not his fault. That may very well be the case.

 

I blame Drury for last summer because I think it was a missed opportunity to start getting the ball rolling in the right direction, and he really did a number getting the narrative to pin all the issues on GG, but not enough that he should be fired for it. To some degree, I can buy that changing the coach was a step in the right direction to get where they got to go. It just wasn’t the only thing required to build a legitimate Cup contender. I appreciated Drury’s stinginess to not trade anything of significance at the deadline this year, but the motivation for why he didn’t is important. If it’s because he and Lavi didn’t think they needed anything, we’re in big trouble. If it’s because Drury saw this team for what it was, a paper tiger team that wasn’t worth an all-in investment, there’s hope for a positive offseason.

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

It’s been said before and it has to be said again. The way you lose matters. ECF 2 out of 3 years is nice, but the way they lost both series highlights the issues. Panarin and Trouba are the two biggest issues.

 

If they are stuck with Panarin taking up the cap he is, it’s not even worth trying to go all in at any stage to win the whole thing for two more seasons. That changes how Drury should approach trading, contracts, and assets that can be dealt at the deadline for what will still be a competitive (but not Cup worthy) team. I actually think Drury already feels this way. That’s why he went cheap at the deadline for a “President’s Trophy” team.

 

You can replace Panarin with Zibanejad this year. Their 1C looks miles below the mark. The Holy Trinity — 1C, 1D, 1G — exists for a reason. Teams with that structure are the ones who win most often. Just like Florida is about to.

 

They have 1G covered in spades. I'm seriously questioning if their 1D can handle it when it matters most. Like the Big Gun forwards, his game shrinks to obscurity when time and space is eliminated. I have massive concern with who their 1C is. Trocheck is their best center and he had a career year that I'm not sure will ever be repeated. Zibanejad had 8 ES goals all year and went like 33 games without a goal this regular season.

 

Danger, WIll Robinson.

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Their "core" 1C had 8 goals and 17 even strength assists this season.

Their biggest "core" forwards combined for zero goals and zero ES points in the entire ECF.

Their "core" defense got caved in nightly, including their 1D, who was turnstiled every night.

 

They may not have a choice but to come back with the same core because of how much trade protection they have, but in no world should this be the operating desire.

If Adam Fox wasn’t hurt, I’m going to have an issue. You can see how important he is when he’s right vs whatever the fuck we saw since that Jensen hit. If he was hurt, this playoffs showed why he is the most important skater on the team. The defense was shit no matter what pairing, instead of having that rock solid Fox taking 25 a game and making plays. There was no safety net. No pairings you could turn to in crunch time. They all sucked. Big problem.

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

You can replace Panarin with Zibanejad this year. Their 1C looks miles below the mark. The Holy Trinity — 1C, 1D, 1G — exists for a reason. Teams with that structure are the ones who win most often. Just like Florida is about to.

 

They have 1G covered in spades. I'm seriously questioning if their 1D can handle it when it matters most. Like the Big Gun forwards, his game shrinks to obscurity when time and space is eliminated. I have massive concern with who their 1C is. Trocheck is their best center and he had a career year that I'm not sure will ever be repeated. Zibanejad had 8 ES goals all year and went like 33 games without a goal this regular season.

 

Danger, WIll Robinson.

This is where Fox’s injury status matters. If Fox was hurt, his performance was understandable and 1D is covered no doubt. If he wasn’t, there’s a seed of doubt planted because he was not nearly good enough this playoffs. I would be stunned if he wasn’t hurt. Stunned. Because I’ve never been more sure and confident in a player’s abilities than Fox.

 

1C is an issue. They have 2 really good 2Cs. I don’t know how you get a 1C, or at least a young C who has decent potential to hit 1C status.

[Rangers1994]

16 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

If Adam Fox wasn’t hurt, I’m going to have an issue. You can see how important he is when he’s right vs whatever the fuck we saw since that Jensen hit. If he was hurt, this playoffs showed why he is the most important skater on the team. The defense was shit no matter what pairing, instead of having that rock solid Fox taking 25 a game and making plays. There was no safety net. No pairings you could turn to in crunch time. They all sucked. Big problem.

 

Fox probably deserves one more year before his NMC kicks in.

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

If Adam Fox wasn’t hurt, I’m going to have an issue. You can see how important he is when he’s right vs whatever the fuck we saw since that Jensen hit. If he was hurt, this playoffs showed why he is the most important skater on the team. The defense was shit no matter what pairing, instead of having that rock solid Fox taking 25 a game and making plays. There was no safety net. No pairings you could turn to in crunch time. They all sucked. Big problem.

 

Yup. They're immobile (and small). Four out of six can't make a first pass effectively. All the 5v5 problems start there.

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

You can replace Panarin with Zibanejad this year. Their 1C looks miles below the mark. The Holy Trinity — 1C, 1D, 1G — exists for a reason. Teams with that structure are the ones who win most often. Just like Florida is about to.

 

They have 1G covered in spades. I'm seriously questioning if their 1D can handle it when it matters most. Like the Big Gun forwards, his game shrinks to obscurity when time and space is eliminated. I have massive concern with who their 1C is. Trocheck is their best center and he had a career year that I'm not sure will ever be repeated. Zibanejad had 8 ES goals all year and went like 33 games without a goal this regular season.

 

Danger, WIll Robinson.

The reality is you have to assume anyone with a NMC will be here next season. The first priority should be getting Mika new wingers. He has to do too much work. Trocheck playing with 2 guys who can move the puck through the NZ and manufacture a zone entry is an absolute luxury that Mika hasn't had in years.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

This is where Fox’s injury status matters. If Fox was hurt, his performance was understandable and 1D is covered no doubt. If he wasn’t, there’s a seed of doubt planted because he was not nearly good enough this playoffs. I would be stunned if he wasn’t hurt. Stunned. Because I’ve never been more sure and confident in a player’s abilities than Fox.

 

1C is an issue. They have 2 really good 2Cs. I don’t know how you get a 1C, or at least a young C who has decent potential to hit 1C status.

 

I have no idea, but I'm ready to 'Brassard' Zibanejad and roll the dice. Just run Trocheck out there and see if you can find someone to play 2C at a much cheaper price point who can maybe give you more. I have no idea how this works, mind you. I don't think anyone is taking Zib's deal. But stranger things have happened.

[Valriera]

Fox is most certainly injured he could not turn at all. We all saw this the game after the hit. 
 

That said it doesn’t matter to me, trade the guy if you like. I don’t like his attitude.

 

You know whose attitude is right? Lafreniere. Sucked big time, put in the work, turned his whole career around.

 

Trochek. For obvious reasons.

 

Trouba’s attitude is right he just sucks. 
 

The million mile stare boys are just not who I care about on this team anymore and those three are Mika, Kreider, and Fox. Those three can fuck right off into wherever and I wouldn’t care