Brooks Rangers' Core Has Run Its Course as Tough Jacob Trouba, Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad Decisions Loom

[Phil]

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I do not believe the Rangers can run it back again. I believe that the evidence gathered from this conference final defeat to the Panthers on top of the evidence gleaned from the six-game conference final defeat to the Lightning two years ago frames the case that the core has gone as far as it can and there must be essential changes to the group.

 

I wish I didn’t feel that way, I wish I thought that bulking up in support of the core would constitute the bridge from here to a title, but that’s kind of backwards, isn’t it? Nobody wins the Stanley Cup by leading from behind. Tell me the last time a fourth-liner or a third-pair defenseman won the Conn Smythe.

 

There are going to be some hard conversations this summer as the Rangers seek to transform themselves into more of a playoff-centric team even if it comes at the expense of some fancy regular-season numbers. When a group keeps telling you who they are, believe them.

 

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The captain wants it. He cares. He’s been universally lauded for his leadership. But No. 8’s no-move clause converts to a 15-team no-trade list this summer on a contract that has two years to run at an annual $8 million cap hit. There is some irony, don’t you think, that a team that lacks physicality might trade the most physical player on the team?

 

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Kreider, 33, is in the same position as Trouba, his no-move converting to a 15-team no-trade list on July 1 while operating on a contract with three years to go at an equitable $6.5 million annual cap hit. Moving Kreider, a Ranger since 2012, would represent a massive move. He has evolved into one of the league’s great goal-scorers and an elite net-front presence on the power play and an explosive penalty killer. But if the Rangers believe they are in need of a dramatic makeover, it’s Kreider who would be able to command the most in return.

 

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Zibanejad, 30, does have a no-move clause on his contract extension that has six years remaining at an annual $8.5 million cap charge. I’m not exactly sure what the effect of sounding out No. 93 about waiving the no-move would be, but I can’t imagine it would be a pleasant conversation and I’m not sure how a chat like that would impact team dynamics if the Swede were unwilling to go.

 

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The Summer has to be about Size and Strength. That’s it. The Rangers have to be much bigger on the back end. Ryan Lindgren, NHL-listed at 6-0 and 190, will hit you every shift and twice on Sunday. Florida’s Aaron Ekblad does that, too. He’s listed at 6-4 and 215. Which one has more impact, do you suppose?

 

https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/sports/rangers-have-tough-jacob-trouba-chris-kreider-mika-zibanejad-decisions/

[Pete]

Yea.

 

I agree.

 

But if they run it back, I'll make the best of it. 

[Sharpshooter]

The only somewhat realistic thing is Trouba getting moved or bought out. Outside of that they're running it back with mostly the same guys, but hopefully with some improved depth throughout the lineup.

Edited June 3 by Sharpshooter

[siddious]

58 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

 

 

 

 

https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/sports/rangers-have-tough-jacob-trouba-chris-kreider-mika-zibanejad-decisions/

I’m glad we can serve as a source and sounding board for Larry because this is all directly from this forum. 

[Sharpshooter]

We should get residuals or something. lol

[BrooksBurner]

I had that article penned last May. Just had to wait for the right time to publish.

 

Love this line:

 

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When a group keeps telling you who they are, believe them.

 

Edited June 3 by BrooksBurner

[Bugg]

Don't think either trading Trouba for a contractor bag filled with empty beer cans or buying him out is  a hard decision. 

[RichieNextel305]

Trouba would be coming in to camp as an $8 Million 3rd pair defenseman. He has to go. And I think it’s more likely than not he does.

 

Outside of that, the only “realistic” scenario I could see if trying to flip Zibanejad somewhere. I think the organization has to be extremely disappointed in him, and I’m not sure he is going to be able to recover from how bad he has been over the last 2 playoff runs. He is very soft between the ears IMO.

[Phil]

That's being kind to Trouba, honestly. He'd be coming in battling to even make the opening roster. There are better, more reliable players knocking who aren't likely to take 11 penalties in the playoffs or be directly responsible for multiple game-winning goals against.

[RichieNextel305]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

That's being kind to Trouba, honestly. He'd be coming in battling to even make the opening roster. There are better, more reliable players knocking who aren't likely to take 11 penalties in the playoffs or be directly responsible for multiple game-winning goals against.

Yep.

 

I personally don’t think there is anyway he is a Ranger next year. I think it was clear as day he was the worst player on the ice anytime he was out there, and he consistently put us in a hole either with his brain dead decisions with the puck, untimely penalties or positional play. Somehow and someway, I don’t see him here. I think this is gonna be the first shoe to drop too.

Edited June 3 by RichieNextel305

[Sharpshooter]

Getting better on the defensive end is definitely another priority in the offseason, and it starts with unloading that guy.

[Phil]

Part of me wonders (hopes) that with some retention (not 50% — more like $1.5 million), he's able to be traded. I'm mostly trying to will it into existence, but it feels like 6.5 Trouba could be attractive to some teams looking to get tougher. 8 is a nonstarter.

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Part of me wonders (hopes) that with some retention (not 50% — more like $1.5 million), he's able to be traded. I'm mostly trying to will it into existence, but it feels like 6.5 Trouba could be attractive to some teams looking to get tougher. 8 is a nonstarter.

Jack Johnson, Kevin Shattenkirk and Dylan McIlrath were on NHL teams this season. Not sure anyone wants to write that big a check for Trouba, but may be get some relief on his contract. 

[Phil]

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Kreider is the least likely of that trio to go anywhere, especially after his heroic hat trick to close out the Carolina Hurricanes in the previous round, but both he and Trouba will be submitting 15-team no-trade lists that become active on July 1. That will leave 16 teams either could technically be traded to.

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2024/06/01/ny-rangers-game-6-score-vs-florida-panthers-saturday-nhl-eastern-conference-finals/73922029007/

[Sharpshooter]

Tied for the least likely along with Panarin. lol No chance they go anywhere. Zibanejad is a huge maybe, but not happening, either.

[siddious]

8 hours ago, Phil said:

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2024/06/01/ny-rangers-game-6-score-vs-florida-panthers-saturday-nhl-eastern-conference-finals/73922029007/

I think Zib is least likely to be moved simply because of contracts.

 

as much hate as kreider gets he was also the best of the top guys in the playoffs. 
 

Inhave to see who’s in line to replace these guys before I can say yes or no but I’m willing to move any of the big contracts at this point. 

[RichieNextel305]

Is the breakup day today?

[siddious]

6 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Is the breakup day today?

Was wondering they usually announce it but I haven’t seen anything 

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, siddious said:

I think Zib is least likely to be moved simply because of contracts.

 

as much hate as kreider gets he was also the best of the top guys in the playoffs. 
 

Inhave to see who’s in line to replace these guys before I can say yes or no but I’m willing to move any of the big contracts at this point. 

Yup, but his clutch performance there, production in general vs his contract,  makes Kreider the most readily tradeable and highest value trade chip they have, and they should take advantage of that. It sucks that it’s come to that. Kreider is probably my 2nd favorite Ranger, but it is what it is.

 

Yesterday I said trade him for the best young 20s RW they can get, but I’m going to pivot. Target young 20s C or D instead. They can backfill wing with Othmann/Berard (this is how I think you free up a winger spot @Phil). Trade an old veteran, ruffle Zib’s feathers, open up a winger spot for youth, and fortify defense or center at the same time. Kill 4 birds with 1 stone. There is not a more direct way to invoke significant change with the least amount of moves. It requires a bold and ballsy move and it’s time to do it.

Edited June 3 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Yup, but his clutch performance there, production in general vs his contract,  makes Kreider the most readily tradeable and highest value trade chip they have, and they should take advantage of that. It sucks that it’s come to that. Kreider is probably my 2nd favorite Ranger, but it is what it is.

 

Yesterday I said trade him for the best young 20s RW they can get, but I’m going to pivot. Target young 20s C or D instead. They can backfill wing with Othmann/Berard (this is how I think you free up a winger spot @Phil). Trade an old veteran, ruffle Zib’s feathers, open up a winger spot for youth, and fortify defense or center at the same time. Kill 4 birds with 1 stone. There is not a more direct way to invoke significant change with the least amount of moves. It requires a bold and ballsy move and it’s time to do it.

Yea, I didn't get the part of the article. The Rangers are at a crossroad, but the least likely player to go is the most tradable one who can get you the best return and has been here the longest and is pretty much the face of failure going back to like 2012...

 

The Rangers need to stay competitive while they still have Igor at a reasonable number, and they simply have too many immovable contracts to think that there can be wholesale changes made this summer. 

 

Yeah I get everybody is frustrated, but the fact of the matter is who comes in is more important than who goes out. For all the anger being spewed, the fact of the matter is "addition by subtraction" is not a thing if you wind up moving guys out and replacing them with other bad contracts or moving up guys from the AHL who simply aren't ready (Othmann mainly).

 

Kreider moving on will be the biggest shake up to the room and get you the best return without even having to retain. It's really a no-brainer.

[Phil]

42 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Yup, but his clutch performance there, production in general vs his contract,  makes Kreider the most readily tradeable and highest value trade chip they have, and they should take advantage of that. It sucks that it’s come to that. Kreider is probably my 2nd favorite Ranger, but it is what it is.

 

Yesterday I said trade him for the best young 20s RW they can get, but I’m going to pivot. Target young 20s C or D instead. They can backfill wing with Othmann/Berard (this is how I think you free up a winger spot @Phil). Trade an old veteran, ruffle Zib’s feathers, open up a winger spot for youth, and fortify defense or center at the same time. Kill 4 birds with 1 stone. There is not a more direct way to invoke significant change with the least amount of moves. It requires a bold and ballsy move and it’s time to do it.

 

I get it. Makes sense on paper, but you Kreider, I'd argue, also represents the Rangers' identity and culture (both the good and the bad), so this could explode spectacularly in your face. Especially if Othmann and/or Berard aren't ready and fail to remotely fill that void. And believe me, that void will be large. The same thing Pete says about subtracting Panarin and how it becomes immediately harder to even make the playoffs if you do so is true of Kreider, becuase Kreider is the team's best goal-scorer. Nothing means more than scoring goals. It's how you actually win games.

 

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yea, I didn't get the part of the article. The Rangers are at a crossroad, but the least likely player to go is the most tradable one who can get you the best return and has been here the longest and is pretty much the face of failure going back to like 2012...

 

The Rangers need to stay competitive while they still have Igor at a reasonable number, and they simply have too many immovable contracts to think that there can be wholesale changes made this summer. 

 

Yeah I get everybody is frustrated, but the fact of the matter is who comes in is more important than who goes out. For all the anger being spewed, the fact of the matter is "addition by subtraction" is not a thing if you wind up moving guys out and replacing them with other bad contracts or moving up guys from the AHL who simply aren't ready (Othmann mainly).

 

Kreider moving on will be the biggest shake up to the room and get you the best return without even having to retain. It's really a no-brainer.

 

Again, because Kreider scores goals. I completely understand what you're saying, but it's a double edged sword that can just as easily kill the team as it can potentially fix them. You're asking the team to kill it's most productive goal-scorer, it's net front presence that is largely responsible for the team's PP being top-3 in the league year-over-year, it's most tenured (and respected) player, and its all-time leading playoffs goal scorer.

 

Calling this a "no-brainer," when you aren't trying to raze the team to the ground and start again is dangerous. This could just as soon kill the spirits of the club as it could help them restock for the future.

[Duguay10]

I think they are stuck with making another run at it with this core. Move on from Trouba, that makes sense. Maybe Kakko goes. Keeping Kreider, Zibby and Bread pretty much assures you a play off spot next year. But you will need to step up at the trade deadline and find some physical top 6 player to help were we fell short this year. 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I get it. Makes sense on paper, but you Kreider, I'd argue, also represents the Rangers' identity and culture (both the good and the bad), so this could explode spectacularly in your face. Especially if Othmann and/or Berard aren't ready and fail to remotely fill that void. And believe me, that void will be large. The same thing Pete says about subtracting Panarin and how it becomes immediately harder to even make the playoffs if you do so is true of Kreider, becuase Kreider is the team's best goal-scorer. Nothing means more than scoring goals. It's how you actually win games.

 

 

Again, because Kreider scores goals. I completely understand what you're saying, but it's a double edged sword that can just as easily kill the team as it can potentially fix them. You're asking the team to kill it's most productive goal-scorer, it's net front presence that is largely responsible for the team's PP being top-3 in the league year-over-year, it's most tenured (and respected) player, and its all-time leading playoffs goal scorer.

 

Calling this a "no-brainer," when you aren't trying to raze the team to the ground and start again is dangerous. This could just as soon kill the spirits of the club as it could help them restock for the future.

I think people are so blinded by their anger that they don't realize that no matter who you trade besides Trouba, the team will be worse next year.

 

If you want to trade Mika, Panarin, etc. then you are likely to be retaining salary or taking a bad contract back and either way you are unlikely to get a player of equal caliber back (despite whatever thinks about Mika, the fact of the matter is he's a valuable player).

 

I don't care if Kreider scores goals LOL. That's exactly why you trade him. 

 

The postseason banter is like the usual shit but on steroids... I'm not interested in making this team worse in the short term and the long term. I'm fine with short-term pain for long-term gain but I'm not treating guys just to trade them and getting a bag of shit back plus having to retain salary.

 

Then you have a guy who will get you back the best possible package without trying to retain and you don't want to trade him? Then you're not really serious about changing anything. You're just serious about getting rid of certain players who you have a personal peeve with and not actually thinking logically about what can help the team the most.

 

Again, addition by subtraction is not a thing. I'm not interested in Zib or Panarin for Hurberdeau because "addition by subtraction".

 

So if anybody here is claiming that this team needs a full-on remake, but they're not interested in trading Kreider, then they can't be taken seriously as anything other than a whining fan. 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Duguay10 said:

I think they are stuck with making another run at it with this core. Move on from Trouba, that makes sense. Maybe Kakko goes. Keeping Kreider, Zibby and Bread pretty much assures you a play off spot next year. But you will need to step up at the trade deadline and find some physical top 6 player to help were we fell short this year. 

Sometimes the answer lies within. Cuylle has earned a shot at a larger role. He's good defensively, he gets in on the forecheck and skates, and he's shown some scoring ability. If you want to promote some people from the AHL into bottom six roles, you can do that by moving up Cuylle. 

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I get it. Makes sense on paper, but you Kreider, I'd argue, also represents the Rangers' identity and culture (both the good and the bad), so this could explode spectacularly in your face. Especially if Othmann and/or Berard aren't ready and fail to remotely fill that void. And believe me, that void will be large. The same thing Pete says about subtracting Panarin and how it becomes immediately harder to even make the playoffs if you do so is true of Kreider, becuase Kreider is the team's best goal-scorer. Nothing means more than scoring goals. It's how you actually win games.

 

Yup. You don't have to convince me of any of that, that's for sure. You know I'm probably Kreider's biggest stan on the board other than you. A Kreider trade inevitably makes the team worse on paper temporarily. There's just no getting around that. You just can't replace 35-40 goals with $6.5 million.

 

The risk of it blowing up in your face means what though? Becoming a bubble team for a season rather than challenging for the division? The end result is likely the same: falling flat in the playoffs again. The problems just won't be fixed in a single summer. This is just how you start. It's a totally different story if Kreider were 27 with many years left to give. He's 33. The decline is coming. Get out in front of it, and deal with the consequences of what happens as a result in the immediate. It's the Brassard and Stepan trades on steroids.