Brooks Rangers' Core Has Run Its Course as Tough Jacob Trouba, Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad Decisions Loom

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 hour ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

Why would Ottawa ever want to make that deal.

 

You are talking about trading a player with concussion issues who is one hit away from a career ending injury, someone who is looking like they are going to be a career third liner and an aging forward who only has 2 years left on his contract for a borderline franchise player. Also Ottawa would be taking back 5-6 million in salary.

 

Makes no sense. 

Kreider isn't going to want to go there anyway.

 

[Scott]

I think if your plan doesn't include all but being guaranteed you're going to be able to keep Igor around on a new deal past next season than doing anything to take a step backward next season is  ensuring whatever little crack exists in having a window to make a deep run and maybe even ultimately be lucky one standing at the end of the season will be buried for good. Worst yet for the foreseeable future. They have the best who's carried them for a couple years and should be able too for several more at a minimum.  You lose him and I believe you're even more fucked especially if you willingly take a step backwards next season, then he's gone after it? Basically toying around the edges which will probably accomplish nothing (minus unloading Trouba with minimal damage to the cap by taking back a bad deal, retention etc).

 

It's going to be incredibly complicated to do anything big to change the MO of the team imo. Even dealing Krieder which I think creates a huge hole and only bringing back 6.5 in upgrades. I don't think that brings you back more than what he brings to this team. Easiest one to move sure and for good reason production/cost.

 

It's all going to be incredibly difficult to actually improve this team with all the M-NTC and NTC etc. even though the feeling is right now to fuck this group for the most part in a huge way.  I don't think it's realistic and more or less we'll be running it back sans Trouba who's going to bring back not too much other than possibly being rid of him. I'd be pleasantly if they brought back a huge chunk of his cap but I'm not sure there's a team dumb enough to do that and again his NTC will limit the options to a degree.  

 

If and when he goes it's going to be fun to see the change in many that most times he throws a big hit it will become dirty and headhunting but I digress.

[RangersIn7]

31 minutes ago, Pete said:

Some people are going to have to accept that breaking that cycle might come by adding to the roster, not removing players from it. Another thing people will need to accept...The Rangers lost the games by a goal. If Jake Guentzal was on this roster they might still be playing.

 

Reality is they need a RW and possibly a 3C and 3RW if Kakko goes, and a bottom pairing. If you can get playoff performers in those roles, that's all you really need.

 

People want to talk about our stars disappearing but Barkov (2G last 10 games) wasn't great and neither was Tkachuk (1G last 10). Tarasenko was dropped to the third line. Florida got down lineup contributions from guys like Tarasenko and Lundell, and they had a 3rd pair playing the best hockey of their career.

 

I'm open to whatever happens this summer. Trade everyone for all I care. But if they run it back I'm not gonna cry about it and when the playoffs start you roll the dice that the puck will bounce your way more than it did this season.

 

Because the reality is that's about all they can do based on what the contract and trade protections are.

Florida was the better team

No question.

 

Yet they needed 6 games and 5 of the 6 were 1 goal games. 
That’s with nothing from CK, Zib, and Panarin.

And a 1-legged Adam Fox. 
 

With a healthy Fox, maybe things are different?

 

With a different draw, things probably are different.

Florida was about the toughest matchup they were going to see. 

Sometimes winning a Cup means getting the right matchup at the right time. 
They didn’t.

 

 

 

Trouba is the biggest issue at this point. He’s gotten slower. His play in his own end is below average. He gives you little to nothing offensively. And his cap hit is just too much.

Priority 1 is to move him.

Ask for his list.

Find a destination suitable to him.

Eat 25% or so.

Move him out.

The return doesn’t mean much

[BreakawayMachine]

Send another letter and break this team up. They cant get it done.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Florida was the better team

No question.

 

Yet they needed 6 games and 5 of the 6 were 1 goal games. 
That’s with nothing from CK, Zib, and Panarin.

And a 1-legged Adam Fox. 
 

With a healthy Fox, maybe things are different?

 

With a different draw, things probably are different.

Florida was about the toughest matchup they were going to see. 

Sometimes winning a Cup means getting the right matchup at the right time. 
They didn’t.

 

 

 

Trouba is the biggest issue at this point. He’s gotten slower. His play in his own end is below average. He gives you little to nothing offensively. And his cap hit is just too much.

Priority 1 is to move him.

Ask for his list.

Find a destination suitable to him.

Eat 25% or so.

Move him out.

The return doesn’t mean much

 

They were 1 goal games strictly because of Shesterkin. There's another thread about him wanting $12 million, where nobody wants to pay him and would rather see him traded.

 

This team as constructed ain't shit without Shesty. The Rangers have a real problem to solve. Invest in Shesty and hope he can drag the aging no-shows, and almost certainly fucking the cap up during Lafreniere's prime, or get rid of Shesty and watch the team almost positively take a nose dive in the near term.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

It depends on the picks and prospects. What would Chicago give up to have him on Bedard's wing?

 

If you're trading Kreider you've decided not to add around the margins and go for it again. You're riding out Panarin and trying to see what Mika is without CK and/or pump his trade value up for someone to take him.

 

In that case, a guys who's 1,2,3 years away is not a problem.

 

Hope is not a strategy. If you remove Kreider, you are taking away a minimum of 25 goals, guaranteed. Upward of 50. Explain to me how you are recouping that, because I don't see it. I see various scenarios in which other players backfill the role, but probably fail to capture the goal(s).

[Br4d]

Lafreniere - Trocheck - A

Panarin - Chytil - B

Cuylle - Zibanejad - Rempe

Vesey - Edstrom - Othmann

 

Rangers looking for RW (again).  I'm assuming Kreider, Goodrow and Kakko all traded and the proceeds good for A or B plus some help on defense.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

What does this do for us when we wind up in the playoffs against Florida or TB again?

 

I hate the idea of a regular season next year that doesn't mean anything because we all know several key players are going to vanish when they start getting hit in the playoffs.

 

You do realize 30 of the 32 teams in the NHL don't get past the conference finals?

 

While frustrating, and that our shortcomings were glaring vs. Florida(and seem to be a pattern); they did have a great season. Qualifying for the playoffs and maybe winning a round were the expectations heading into the season. Instead they won the Presidents trophy, won 2 series, and took what may be the Stanley Cup champion to 6 games.

 

To me a much more logical approach would be to figure out why Panarin and Zibenejad disappear against teams like Florida and Tampa Bay, and address it. My take would be trying to find wingers that will give them the space they need to be effective. If that doesn't work one of them will have a much easier contract to move after next season.

 

While I am not in 100% agreement with every one of Drury's moves, I do see the strategy and like where he is going(adding size & grit over perimeter play). He is not going to get another do-over like Gorton did so a gradual transition is the only way to get there.

 

This team is much tougher to play against than the one that lost to Tampa Bay two years ago; give this another 2 years and it should start to resemble what I believe he is trying to build.    

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Hope is not a strategy. If you remove Kreider, you are taking away a minimum of 25 goals, guaranteed. Upward of 50. Explain to me how you are recouping that, because I don't see it. I see various scenarios in which other players backfill the role, but probably fail to capture the goal(s).

What are you talking about? Who said anything about hope? 

 

Go back and reread my post. If you are trading him, you are essentially giving up next season and waiting out the Panarin contract. 

 

You were saying you don't want futures, I'm telling you if you make the decision to trade him it's going to be for futures or for a young player that still needs to be seasoned, you're not trying to replace his production because you've already decided the path.

[RangersIn7]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

They were 1 goal games strictly because of Shesterkin. There's another thread about him wanting $12 million, where nobody wants to pay him and would rather see him traded.

 

This team as constructed ain't shit without Shesty. The Rangers have a real problem to solve. Invest in Shesty and hope he can drag the aging no-shows, and almost certainly fucking the cap up during Lafreniere's prime, or get rid of Shesty and watch the team almost positively take a nose dive in the near term.

Ok

And he’s still our goalie.

So you identify the pieces of the core that you can move, and you see what’s out there and you do your best to improve.

 

Either that, or sell it all and rebuild entirely.

 

So much is made about needing big skilled players who are physical and all of that, but score. 
Those players aren’t common. There’s not tons that fit that mold that are available and they don’t come cheap. 

[Br4d]

Kreider is also an unusual player.  He's a highly skilled-big North American player who doesn't use his body to full competitive advantage.  He became a star for the first time at 30 and then has maintained similar production for the next two seasons.

 

We have no idea what '24-'25 will bring for him but the trend does not show a decrease in skills and abilities through 33 and that is again unusual.

 

 

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

What are you talking about? Who said anything about hope? 

 

Go back and reread my post. If you are trading him, you are essentially giving up next season and waiting out the Panarin contract. 

 

You were saying you don't want futures, I'm telling you if you make the decision to trade him it's going to be for futures or for a young player that still needs to be seasoned, you're not trying to replace his production because you've already decided the path.

 

Ah, I misunderstood. I see what you mean now, and I reject it fervently. This team is in a championship window. They just made the ECF in two of the last three seasons. They won the Presidents trophy despite major flaws. They have the best goalie in the NHL. Fix what you can and go until the wheels fall off. I'm not going to Kerrigan this team on purpose. Not yet.

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Ah, I misunderstood. I see what you mean now, and I reject it fervently. This team is in a championship window. They just made the ECF in two of the last three seasons. They won the Presidents trophy despite major flaws. They have the best goalie in the NHL. Fix what you can and go until the wheels fall off. I'm not going to Kerrigan this team on purpose. Not yet.

So then the path is clear. 

 

Keep everyone except for Trouba and probably Kakko. Go shopping for a top line right wing and a bottom pair RD (I'm perfectly comfortable with Jones as the left side D).

 

Because the fact of the matter is that removing those who are seen as "the problem" (Mika, Panarin) fucks your cap.

[phillyb]

That Nancy Kerrigan reference is outta fuckin left field and amazing. Holy shit hahaha. 

[BrooksBurner]

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Hope is not a strategy. If you remove Kreider, you are taking away a minimum of 25 goals, guaranteed. Upward of 50. Explain to me how you are recouping that, because I don't see it. I see various scenarios in which other players backfill the role, but probably fail to capture the goal(s).

 

So if they have to replace 35-40 goals in Kreider's stead, I think you can count on about 20 goals being provided by replacements.

 

- 10 PPGs by Lafreniere on PP1

- 10 goals by whoever takes Kreider's minutes in the top 6 at ES.

 

You're short maybe 15-20 goals. It also becomes a game of who he has been traded for and what kind of impact they have. Is it a goal scorer who will net more than 10 goals at ES? Is it a defenseman that significantly helps keep the puck out of his own net? That also cuts the differential down.

 

Your point isn't lost at all though. Losing 15-20 goals against the team's goal differential could be the difference between a guaranteed playoff ticket and having to fight for one.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

So if they have to replace 35-40 goals in Kreider's stead, I think you can count on about 20 goals being provided by replacements.

 

- 10 PPGs by Lafreniere on PP1

- 10 goals by whoever takes Kreider's minutes in the top 6 at ES.

 

You're short maybe 15-20 goals. It also becomes a game of who he has been traded for and what kind of impact they have. Is it a goal scorer who will net more than 10 goals at ES? Is it a defenseman that significantly helps keep the puck out of his own net? That also cuts the differential down.

 

Your point isn't lost at all though. Losing 15-20 goals against the team's goal differential could be the difference between a guaranteed playoff ticket and having to fight for one.

Does Mika return to form and shoot more without his BFF?

[Phil]

28 minutes ago, Pete said:

So then the path is clear. 

 

Keep everyone except for Trouba and probably Kakko. Go shopping for a top line right wing and a bottom pair RD (I'm perfectly comfortable with Jones as the left side D).

 

Because the fact of the matter is that removing those who are seen as "the problem" (Mika, Panarin) fucks your cap.

 

Yup. That's the position I've talked myself into the last few days.

 

Trouba is as much of a cap dump as possible. Kakko is more of a "change of scenery" move. You can technically move both to the same team (Utah or San Jose as examples), but I'm thinking separate deals.

 

Trouba to San Jose or Utah for as little in return as possible.

Kakko for Jeannot. Then bank a fuck load of cap room for a big RW1 move at the trade deadline.

[Phil]

32 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

So if they have to replace 35-40 goals in Kreider's stead, I think you can count on about 20 goals being provided by replacements.

 

- 10 PPGs by Lafreniere on PP1

- 10 goals by whoever takes Kreider's minutes in the top 6 at ES.

 

You're short maybe 15-20 goals. It also becomes a game of who he has been traded for and what kind of impact they have. Is it a goal scorer who will net more than 10 goals at ES? Is it a defenseman that significantly helps keep the puck out of his own net? That also cuts the differential down.

 

Your point isn't lost at all though. Losing 15-20 goals against the team's goal differential could be the difference between a guaranteed playoff ticket and having to fight for one.

 

15-20 goals is a lot. Not just in the regular season (you get it — differential) but especially when we're talking about the franchise leader in playoffs goals.

 

[Rangers1994]

18 hours ago, Phil said:

That's being kind to Trouba, honestly. He'd be coming in battling to even make the opening roster. There are better, more reliable players knocking who aren't likely to take 11 penalties in the playoffs or be directly responsible for multiple game-winning goals against.

 

Maybe Drury can get him to agree to a pay cut....

[Jdog99]

Oh no...a difficult conversation with mopey mika.

 

How's he gonna respond...MOPE to an extreme for the next 6 years?

 

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

Oh no...a difficult conversation with mopey mika.

 

How's he gonna respond...MOPE to an extreme for the next 6 years?

 

Who mopes more, the fans or the player?

[Jdog99]

Just now, Pete said:

Who mopes more, the fans or the player?

 

pay me 8.5 mill for the next 6 years...and ill stop moping

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

 

pay me 8.5 mill for the next 6 years...and ill stop moping

And yet if he were happy to be collecting a paycheck, then you would be giving him shit for not caring about wins and losses.

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

Maybe Drury can get him to agree to a pay cut....

 

Contract restructuring, you mean? Doesn't exist in the NHL. They have two solutions to deal with his cap hit:

 

1. Buyout. It's kinda brutal.

2. Trade. Possibly with some retention.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

Who mopes more, the fans or the player?

 

Trick question because Mika has RMF (Resting Mope Face).