Staple There May Be Interest in Trouba If Rangers Retain Some Salary

[BrooksBurner]

If Kakko were a 4th rounder he probably spends the first year or two in Finland and the next year or two in Hartford. He’d probably have been 22 before he even got a crack at a bottom 6 roster spot.

 

If we pretend all else were the same as it is now, he’d have been traded because he doesn’t fit the mold of what they need and like @Br4d said, there would be no hope of top 6 upside that still captivates people.

 

There’s still a chance he becomes a top 6 player, but he’s not actively helping them win right now, so the Rangers ultimately have to decide what direction they are going in as a team before they can make a choice about Kakko.

[RangersIn7]

45 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

If Kakko were a 4th rounder he probably spends the first year or two in Finland and the next year or two in Hartford. He’d probably have been 22 before he even got a crack at a bottom 6 roster spot.

 

If we pretend all else were the same as it is now, he’d have been traded because he doesn’t fit the mold of what they need and like @Br4d said, there would be no hope of top 6 upside that still captivates people.

 

There’s still a chance he becomes a top 6 player, but he’s not actively helping them win right now, so the Rangers ultimately have to decide what direction they are going in as a team before they can make a choice about Kakko.

He’s essentially been about a neutral player at this point.

 

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

If Kakko were a 4th rounder he probably spends the first year or two in Finland and the next year or two in Hartford. He’d probably have been 22 before he even got a crack at a bottom 6 roster spot.

 

If we pretend all else were the same as it is now, he’d have been traded because he doesn’t fit the mold of what they need and like @Br4d said, there would be no hope of top 6 upside that still captivates people.

 

There’s still a chance he becomes a top 6 player, but he’s not actively helping them win right now, so the Rangers ultimately have to decide what direction they are going in as a team before they can make a choice about Kakko.

Kakko is exactly the mold of what's needed a 3rd line.

 

And he's cheap.

 

It's just the recency bias of his last season which was riddled with injury and ineffectiveness.

 

Nobody wants to look at the season before, where he was healthy, and put up 40 points. 

 

How many teams would sign up for 40 points from the third line for 2.5 million? A lot. 

 

There's no reason to move him because he's not blocking anybody. All of the wingers are left-wingers. 

 

Again, sign him to his qualifying offer, if he gets beat out in camp for a third line spot by Othmann, Bedard, Sykora, then put him on waivers. 

Edited June 12 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Kakko is exactly the mold of what's needed a 3rd line.

 

And he's cheap.

 

It's just the recency bias of his last season which was riddled with injury and ineffectiveness.

 

Nobody wants to look at the season before, where he was healthy, and put up 40 points. 

 

How many teams would sign up for 40 points from the third line for 2.5 million? A lot. 

 

There's no reason to move him because he's not blocking anybody. All of the wingers are left-wingers. 

 

Again, sign him to his qualifying offer, if he gets beat out in camp for a third line spot by Othmann, Bedard, Sykora, then put him on waivers. 

He was 3rd in 5v5 TOI in his 40 point season, so we can’t really equate that output like he did it as a 3rd liner. He was shoehorned in the top 6 and that’s where he maxed out.

 

He’s not physical, fast, quick on forecheck, or productive with the puck, at least not yet. The only things he is, is defensively responsibleand can possess the puck fairly well, which is great but the Rangers need more out of their third line. Part of that is because the stars disappear. 

Edited June 12 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

He was 3rd in 5v5 TOI in his 40 point season, so we can’t really equate that output like he did it as a 3rd liner. He was shoehorned in the top 6 and that’s where he maxed out.

 

He’s not physical, fast, quick on forecheck, or productive with the puck, at least not yet. The only thing he is, is defensively responsible, which is great but the Rangers need more out of their third line. Part of that is because the stars disappear. 

[BrooksBurner]

Just now, Pete said:

Before you get upset, let’s get my position right. I’d give Kakko another chance, but I’m also not trying to win now. Those two things do not jive together IMO.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Before you get upset, let’s get my position right. I’d give Kakko another chance, but I’m also not trying to win now. Those two things do not jive together IMO.

I'm not upset about anything, I'm just not interested in wasting more time on "Zib sucks, Panarin sucks, blah blah".

 

He is young and he is cheap and players have taken longer than him to figure it out. I'd rather fix my problem than trade my problem, because if you want more out of the third line then you're going to have to pay more (in cap space or in assets) and the Rangers don't have it.

 

I'd rather just keep him and whatever you get offensively is a bonus. People talk about him like he's a "must go" when he's really the furthest thing from the biggest problem. The only problem he causes is that he was a second overall that didn't live up to that, and that can set an organization back a couple of years. But as far as the question of if he's a player that teams are going to want on their third line, the answer in my opinion is yes. 

 

Even the articles that are written about moving him don't say that it's what's best for the team, they say it's what's best for him, meanwhile he never even said he wanted to leave. But reporters need to write columns, so here we are. 

 

 

Edited June 12 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm not upset about anything, I'm just not interested in wasting more time on "Zib sucks, Panarin sucks, blah blah".

 

He is young and he is cheap and players have taken longer than him to figure it out. I'd rather fix my problem than trade my problem, because if you want more out of the third line then you're going to have to pay more (in cap space or in assets) and the Rangers don't have it.

 

I'd rather just keep him and whatever you get offensively is a bonus. People talk about him like he's a "must go" when he's really the furthest thing from the biggest problem. The only problem he causes is that he was a second overall that didn't live up to that, and that can set an organization back a couple of years. But as far as the question of if he's a player that teams are going to want on their third line, the answer in my opinion is yes. 

 

Even the articles that are written about moving him don't say that it's what's best for the team, they say it's what's best for him, meanwhile he never even said he wanted to leave. But reporters need to write columns, so here we are. 

 

 

[Albatrosss]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

If Kakko was a 4th rounder we'd be ok with his play and the role the Rangers had in mind for him.  The difference is that people see Kakko as having top 6 upside and the odds are he doesn't at this point.

 

For a 4th rounder on a 4th rounder's contract that is just fine.  For a #2OA who eats an outsized portion of attention from the team it's not.

 

The ironic thing about the situation is that once Kakko is firmly situated in the bottom 6 his upside comes back.  He'll probably have a season that establishes him as a middle 6 guy one of these seasons and then he'll be a value until he's past his prime.

if Kakko was a 4th rounder, he'd never see a light of day at the NHL level IMO.  Probably buried in Finland or AHL

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

if Kakko was a 4th rounder, he'd never see a light of day at the NHL level IMO.  Probably buried in Finland or AHL

Which would be a mistake cause he’s clearly proven that he is an NHL player.

[Albatrosss]

16 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Which would be a mistake cause he’s clearly proven that he is an NHL player.

mistake in the sense that the rangers would be worse off if he wasnt on the team?  at this point in time I'm not so sure.  He doesnt bring much offense and is not some defensive specialist.  the team is just hanging to him in hopes he breaks out, which IMO is the right thing to do but lets not pretend he brings anything to this team that no other 3rd liner cant. 

[Ozzy]

Kakko's fine...he's cheap and he plays a responsible RW for the 3rd line.  He ain't goin' nowhere because we'd get balls across the chin for him, and then he's just become a 30 goal scorer in Chicago or someplace like that. 

 

Back to Trouba.....

 

Is he gone yet???

[LindG1000]

40 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Kakko's fine...he's cheap and he plays a responsible RW for the 3rd line.  He ain't goin' nowhere because we'd get balls across the chin for him, and then he's just become a 30 goal scorer in Chicago or someplace like that. 

 

Back to Trouba.....

 

Is he gone yet???

He's covered in paint, bodychecking a brick wall outside a loft in SoHo for $8k a hit.

 

It's awkward for the sponsor because he dents the wall with his elbow each time he hits it.

[RangersIn7]

56 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

mistake in the sense that the rangers would be worse off if he wasnt on the team?  at this point in time I'm not so sure.  He doesnt bring much offense and is not some defensive specialist.  the team is just hanging to him in hopes he breaks out, which IMO is the right thing to do but lets not pretend he brings anything to this team that no other 3rd liner cant. 

If you’re saying that he could be replaced if he stays the same… yeah. He could.

But at the same time, you’re likely spending assets and/or similar money to do so… and I’d rather have the guy I know.

 

 

But I think we both agree that hanging on to him is the right move.

And there’s still upside and potential there.

Best hockey… whatever that actually shakes out to be… is still in front of him. 

[Sod16]

I see a stronger argument for hanging onto Kakko than hanging onto Miller.  The former is cheap, won't get much in a trade, and still has some potential for growth.  The latter is more expensive and will be even more so with his next contract. While he too has potential for growth, there are signs that his weaknesses are not going to change, and he will get more in a trade now than he may in the future when either he will be perceived as plateaued or due for big money if he is not.

[Pete]

21 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

I see a stronger argument for hanging onto Kakko than hanging onto Miller.  The former is cheap, won't get much in a trade, and still has some potential for growth.  The latter is more expensive and will be even more so with his next contract. While he too has potential for growth, there are signs that his weaknesses are not going to change, and he will get more in a trade now than he may in the future when either he will be perceived as plateaued or due for big money if he is not.

I'd argue that moving him on a pair with Schneider solved a lot of his problems... Which probably weren't his problems to begin with. 

[Ozzy]

17 hours ago, Pete said:

I'd argue that moving him on a pair with Schneider solved a lot of his problems... Which probably weren't his problems to begin with. 

 

I thought Miller was much improved this year, and especially when he played with Schneider.  Schneider also played much better with K....so it worked well for both.

 

I wouldn't trade either of those 2....like ever!! 

[siddious]

18 hours ago, Pete said:

I'd argue that moving him on a pair with Schneider solved a lot of his problems... Which probably weren't his problems to begin with. 

 

49 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I thought Miller was much improved this year, and especially when he played with Schneider.  Schneider also played much better with K....so it worked well for both.

 

I wouldn't trade either of those 2....like ever!! 

 

if Schneider miller isn’t the 2nd pair next season then I dunno what laviolette is doing anymore.

 

trouba should be playing 12-17 minutes a night IF he’s still on this team 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

On 6/12/2024 at 9:15 AM, Pete said:

Kakko is exactly the mold of what's needed a 3rd line.

 

And he's cheap.

 

It's just the recency bias of his last season which was riddled with injury and ineffectiveness.

 

Nobody wants to look at the season before, where he was healthy, and put up 40 points. 

 

How many teams would sign up for 40 points from the third line for 2.5 million? A lot. 

 

There's no reason to move him because he's not blocking anybody. All of the wingers are left-wingers. 

 

Again, sign him to his qualifying offer, if he gets beat out in camp for a third line spot by Othmann, Bedard, Sykora, then put him on waivers. 

 

......or just simply trade him for the 2nd or 3rd round draft pick he is worth then.

[Pete]

36 minutes ago, siddious said:

 

 

if Schneider miller isn’t the 2nd pair next season then I dunno what laviolette is doing anymore.

 

trouba should be playing 12-17 minutes a night IF he’s still on this team 

No defenseman can play 12 minutes a night. It's way too taxing on everyone else. 

 

Especially one that makes 8 million. 

[Ozzy]

45 minutes ago, siddious said:

if Schneider miller isn’t the 2nd pair next season then I dunno what laviolette is doing anymore.

 

trouba should be playing 12-17 minutes a night IF he’s still on this team 

 

As much as I would like to think Trouba would be gone, Pete....I just can't see it happening.  Trouba's gotta get himself back to being able to at least be a 3rd pairing player, because what we saw in the playoffs was a flaming fucking tire fire.

 

I don't know if he was out of shape, injured or whatever reason he played like a window licking moron, but he has to right the ship this off season.  I know we can't fix "stupid", but he can at least try to be a better or faster skater, or in better shape.

 

He's still going to have to play decent minutes though, and that scares the shit out of me, because every time the muther fucker is on the ice, he's a culprit of why the puck either never gets out of the zone, or ends up behind our goalie.

[mbob]

Trouba moved out of town is the easiest way to re-roll the rest of the core with a new Captain (Trocheck my pick).  Miller Schneider can lock that second pairing, Miller on the second PP, but I’d also be entertaining a 3rd pairing option that can fit well with Fox as I am concerned a Lindgren injury could occur at the worst time. I’m old school and prefer guys to stick together so if Lindy goes down I want to fill in without disrupting both my pairs. I do not want to see Gus back even though he was serviceable for most the season. Jones and to be determined is my 3rd pair. 

Edited June 13 by mbob

[siddious]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

No defenseman can play 12 minutes a night. It's way too taxing on everyone else. 

 

Especially one that makes 8 million. 

Yeah, I underestimated I guess but third pair is what I meant

[Albatrosss]

2 hours ago, siddious said:

 

 

if Schneider miller isn’t the 2nd pair next season then I dunno what laviolette is doing anymore.

 

trouba should be playing 12-17 minutes a night IF he’s still on this team 

following in GG's footsteps?

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

 

As much as I would like to think Trouba would be gone, Pete....I just can't see it happening.  Trouba's gotta get himself back to being able to at least be a 3rd pairing player, because what we saw in the playoffs was a flaming fucking tire fire.

 

I don't know if he was out of shape, injured or whatever reason he played like a window licking moron, but he has to right the ship this off season.  I know we can't fix "stupid", but he can at least try to be a better or faster skater, or in better shape.

 

He's still going to have to play decent minutes though, and that scares the shit out of me, because every time the muther fucker is on the ice, he's a culprit of why the puck either never gets out of the zone, or ends up behind our goalie.

Trouba we know is not Trouba we saw in the playoffs.  It is obvious he was hurt cause his timing was way off.  he couldnt hit anyone, didnt skate well, tried to overcompensate for his shortcomings by making even more bad decisions.  I think and hope that he's going to rebound come October but would still love him to be on the 3rd pairing with PK time.