Walker Rangers' Igor Shesterkin Could Aim for Historic Contract After Dominant Playoff Run

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

My guess is Igor isn’t interested in a hometown discount that means anything either. At most maybe it’s .25-.5 million per year less. It’ll still be in the 11 range. I hope they don’t pay it. That leaves the options as 1) trade him this summer, or 2) keep him one more year and let him walk UFA.

 

If I had more confidence in the group of players, I’d possibly favor #2 to go for a Cup, but I don’t. Drury has to do the ballsy thing here. Someone will pay a big price to trade for him and extend him. Someone frustrated enough with their own goalie issues.

 

Also consider if you just let him walk to free agency, the chances of him going right across the river to NJ is strong. With a trade, you can dictate a little bit where he’s going.

This is what I might push on, because I know you personally don't have faith in the team but at the end of the day they were incredibly close, so I don't see a real need to trade him this summer when you could just take another crack at it. Just roll the dice now while he still makes 5 million a year. I don't see the point in trading him I just going through this year with who in net? Garand?

 

Maybe there's a cheap goalie on the market (haven't looked) and you can trade him to fill a need for this season and then go into next season with a better team but worse goaltending?

 

Maybe there's a world where he just wants to make more than Sorokin LOL. 

Edited June 4 by Pete

[Flynn]

I love Igor.. But this is like making a Running Back your highest paid player.. 

[Valriera]

Igor is going to make double digits. My guess is roughly bobrovsky's contract right now. 

 

Recent history tells us this is not the best way to build a team, let's pretend that is true for a second. It makes the decision tree fairly easy next year:

 

If you can trade Trouba's (and maybe kreider, secondary) cap to reconfigure a portion of the team with the remaining space, then you keep Igor for the run and let him walk in FA. We have another crack next year with roughly the same team.

 

If you can't do this, then similarly to Kreider, you trade Igor to a contender who will pay out the wazoo for Igor at $5M for a year. He's probably the most valuable player in the league at his price point on sheer value, and we'd be foolish not to take advantage of that if we don't think we have an excellent chance at winning next year. To me that starts with being able to use Trouba's wasted space, the only real wasted space on the team, to get a bit harder to play against up front. If we can do that, I'm in, otherwise I'm trading igor to the very very highest bidder. 

[BrooksBurner]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

This is what I might push on, because I know you personally don't have faith in the team but at the end of the day they were incredibly close, so I don't see a real need to trade him this summer when you could just take another crack at it. Just roll the dice now while he still makes 5 million a year. I don't see the point in trading him I just going through this year with who in net? Garand?

 

Maybe there's a cheap goalie on the market (haven't looked) and you can trade him to fill a need for this season and then go into next season with a better team but worse goaltending?

 

Maybe there's a world where he just wants to make more than Sorokin LOL. 

Well, I figured you would, and some others here.

 

They would have to trade for an Ullmark or someone else.
 

Ultimately, I think the discussion is probably going to be moot and neither of us will get our long term wish. The Rangers will re-sign him to big money. Then we can both complain about his cap hit in 4-5 years making it tough to build a team around Lafreniere in his prime at 27.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Well, I figured you would, and some others here.

 

They would have to trade for an Ullmark or someone else.
 

Ultimately, I think the discussion is probably going to be moot and neither of us will get our long term wish. The Rangers will re-sign him to big money. Then we can both complain about his cap hit in 4-5 years making it tough to build a team around Lafreniere in his prime at 27.

Pretty much. It all comes down to whether or not you want to roll the dice this season, which I really feel at this point is all they can do given the information we have. 

 

The information we don't have? Who's willing to waive trade protection and how much salary do you need to keep to move certain people. 

[Br4d]

36 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I love Igor.. But this is like making a Running Back your highest paid player.. 

 

Depends on the running back.

 

Jim Brown was football's best player for the better part of a decade and worth being the most highly paid player in the game.

 

Breece Hall will definitely be one of the Jets highest paid players in a year or two with only a few guys ahead of him.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Depends on the running back.

 

Jim Brown was football's best player for the better part of a decade and worth being the most highly paid player in the game.

 

Breece Hall will definitely be one of the Jets highest paid players in a year or two with only a few guys ahead of him.

Aren't you always talking shit about how the Jets have no idea how to run an organization?

[Br4d]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Aren't you always talking shit about how the Jets have no idea how to run an organization?

 

They have no idea how to run an organization which means Breece Hall will be gone to the market in a few years.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

They have no idea how to run an organization which means Breece Hall will be gone to the market in a few years.

Okay, but my point is you're proving the reason why you don't make running backs your highest paid player and the same should go for goaltenders. 

[Br4d]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Okay, but my point is you're proving the reason why you don't make running backs your highest paid player and the same should go for goaltenders. 

 

I don't know what the Rangers will do with Igor.

 

I do know that if the value that he represents goes away it had better be replaced by a hard-nosed star or two because without that the Rangers have no chance to win a Stanley Cup.

 

Right now the Ranger's only real chance to win a Stanley Cup is if Igor stands on his head in goal about 10 times during the run.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I don't know what the Rangers will do with Igor.

 

I do know that if the value that he represents goes away it had better be replaced by a hard-nosed star or two because without that the Rangers have no chance to win a Stanley Cup.

 

Right now the Ranger's only real chance to win a Stanley Cup is if Igor stands on his head in goal about 10 times during the run.

This is correct. I don’t know that means you pay Igor though. Even if you can’t net one now, that probably handicaps your ability to net one for the next 6-8 years, should one become available. But yes, at some point it has to result in using the cap saved on a high end player.

Edited June 4 by BrooksBurner

[Br4d]

We could try to catch the Blackhawks with a current talent overload and see if they'd manage our cap problems for us.

 

Igor + Kreider + Trouba for Jason Dickinson (insert another decent mid-career guy if you'd prefer), Petr Mrazek and a couple of #1's.  Plan to trade Mika to Chicago as the reality of what just happened dawns on him.  Kreider will be asking him to come over. 

 

The Blackhawks would probably kill to add 3 solid to star vets around Bedard right now.  The #1's aren't going to be in the NHL for Bedard's first 4 seasons.  Trouba could keep an eye on anybody playing hard against Bedard.

 

Allaire gets a challenge for a change with Mrazek to work on for late-career revival.  Maybe he doesn't step back as hard.

 

There's now room at the inn for the Rangers to promote Othmann, Edstrom and Berard.

 

The primary problems after the trade sequence are mostly finding the 3rd RD and hoping that Chytil is ok.

 

 

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

At the end of the day if your team is built properly from the back end out, you don't have to spend that much on a goalie. That is the model I would rather follow.

But isn't Florida also an example of how to build a great team even with a decent chunk of the cap space locked up in goalies.

 

Florida has more money locked up in goalies then we have, so the problem is obviously not spending too much money on the goalie.

 

Our problem is Trouba, Panarin and partly Zibanejad's contract. They're the ones making too much money based on what they bring to the table. Igor is worth 10-11 million and teams before (and Panthers now) are proof that it's not a problem locking up that much money on your goalie as long as the rest of the roster is built correctly.

 

Teams are built differently and there's no formula that guarantees success. A new team wins the Cup and everyone thinks their way is THE way and start copy-catting, but at the end of the day what matters is you CAN'T have players being overpaid. Having an 11m goalie getting paid 11m will never be a problem, but anyone (doesn't matter if it's a goalie, D or W) that's overpaid by a decent amount will ALWAYS be a problem.

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Also consider if you just let him walk to free agency, the chances of him going right across the river to NJ is strong. With a trade, you can dictate a little bit where he’s going.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

But isn't Florida also an example of how to build a great team even with a decent chunk of the cap space locked up in goalies.

 

Florida has more money locked up in goalies then we have, so the problem is obviously not spending too much money on the goalie.

 

Our problem is Trouba, Panarin and partly Zibanejad's contract. They're the ones making too much money based on what they bring to the table. Igor is worth 10-11 million and teams before (and Panthers now) are proof that it's not a problem locking up that much money on your goalie as long as the rest of the roster is built correctly.

 

Teams are built differently and there's no formula that guarantees success. A new team wins the Cup and everyone thinks their way is THE way and start copy-catting, but at the end of the day what matters is you CAN'T have players being overpaid. Having an 11m goalie getting paid 11m will never be a problem, but anyone (doesn't matter if it's a goalie, D or W) that's overpaid by a decent amount will ALWAYS be a problem.

 

Like I said, Bob's contract could cost them Reinhart and/or Montour, and Bob faces like 22 shots a game. Do you think Florida wants to spend that on a goalie right now? I don't.

 

They also are incredibly fortunate to have value contracts right now. Verhaege makes $4+ mil for 40G, Reinhart currently makes $6.5 for 95 points. Forsling was a waiver claim who made $2.6 this season and is arguably their best D.

 

The stars aligned for them. It's not a repeatable recipe nor is it sustainable because this is probably their last crack at it before the team gets taken apart.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

Like I said, Bob's contract could cost them Reinhart and/or Montour, and Bob faces like 22 shots a game. Do you think Florida wants to spend that on a goalie right now? I don't.

 

They also are incredibly fortunate to have value contracts right now. Verhaege makes $4+ mil for 40G, Reinhart currently makes $6.5 for 95 points. Forsling was a waiver claim who made $2.6 this season and is arguably their best D.

 

The stars aligned for them. It's not a repeatable recipe nor is it sustainable because this is probably their last crack at it before the team gets taken apart.

I never said the won because of Bob, but they won with him making 11m as a goalie. So it’s clearly possible, even with a lesser goalie than Igor.

 

That’s  true for every cup winner ever tho. The stars have to aligne, but I’m not buying that it isn’t sustainable (to the degree anything is sustainable in a cap world). They’re in back2back cup finals, it’s not just some random luck.

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I never said the won because of Bob, but they won with him making 11m as a goalie. So it’s clearly possible, even with a lesser goalie than Igor.

 

That’s  true for every cup winner ever tho. The stars have to aligne, but I’m not buying that it isn’t sustainable (to the degree anything is sustainable in a cap world). They’re in back2back cup finals, it’s not just some random luck.

The won with him making $10M because they got lucky with other players. Verhaege and Forsling were journeyman and are now among their best players. You can't just re-create that.

 

The only lesson you learn from FLA is that if your team is only giving up 24 shots you shouldn't pay your goalie $10M.

 

Go look at their UFAs this season and next. Good chance Bob gets traded or bought out because they need players more than they need him.

Edited June 4 by Pete

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

The won with him making $10M because they got lucky with other players. Verhaege and Forsling were journeyman and are now among their best players. You can't just re-create that.

 

The only lesson you learn from FLA is that if your team is only giving up 24 shots you shouldn't pay your goalie $10M.

 

Go look at their UFAs this season and next. Good chance Bob gets traded or bought out because they need players more than they need him.

I guess we can go back and forth here forever, but at the end of the day Florida are playing their 2nd cup final in two years with 14m locked up in two goalies so I just can’t buy the argument that you can’t win a Cup with a goalie making 10-11m. Florida are doing it now with a worse goalie making even more than that.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I guess we can go back and forth here forever, but at the end of the day Florida are playing their 2nd cup final in two years with 14m locked up in two goalies so I just can’t buy the argument that you can’t win a Cup with a goalie making 10-11m. Florida are doing it now with a worse goalie making even more than that.

Bob makes 10M, so I don't get where you're saying he makes more.

 

If you think it's a repeatable scenario to get your $10M goalie and then just go find a 40G player, 60G/90pt player, and #1D for half price, I just don't agree with that.

 

 

Edited June 4 by Pete

[Scott]

It's a bad situation. With Igor we still have a bunch of warts but he's carried us on his back into some deep series where we had no business being in.  Without his back to carry us I think those warts become cancerous. Sure can we save money and go less, yes, do I think it would benefit us in the end not really.  There's no sign anyone within the org is close.  In theory we can say sure we'll get a 4-5M dollar guy. I would bet that guy has no where near the success (team wise). Regardless of the cap money saved. Our D is bad without him, some nights he's about the only thing going right in that end now, but they've been successful. What are we going to do with his money that's saved. Get two guys @ 2.5, one guy at 5? While suffering an incredible deep cut at the same time.

 

With Allaire stepping back that adds even more of a challenge. I don't believe just anyone can step in his shoes and teach his methods. He's been so incredibly successful in his role.  

 

It's a ugly situation with some blown opportunities along the way if he ends up elsewhere. He's head and shoulders the best player here, especially in the playoffs.

 

Other teams have won with less, but those teams were stacked.  We're not stacking this team with the money saved here.  Just my to cents.

[Mistercosmic]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

But isn't Florida also an example of how to build a great team even with a decent chunk of the cap space locked up in goalies.

Yes, but they're also an example of how to fundamentally realign a franchise in a new, more successful direction by making a blockbuster trade, getting rid of former important players (Huberdeau, Weegar) and bringing in one key player who is made for the playoffs (Tkachuk). And that despite having previously won the Presidents Trophy. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

But isn't Florida also an example of how to build a great team even with a decent chunk of the cap space locked up in goalies.

 

Florida has more money locked up in goalies then we have, so the problem is obviously not spending too much money on the goalie.

 

Our problem is Trouba, Panarin and partly Zibanejad's contract. They're the ones making too much money based on what they bring to the table. Igor is worth 10-11 million and teams before (and Panthers now) are proof that it's not a problem locking up that much money on your goalie as long as the rest of the roster is built correctly.

 

Teams are built differently and there's no formula that guarantees success. A new team wins the Cup and everyone thinks their way is THE way and start copy-catting, but at the end of the day what matters is you CAN'T have players being overpaid. Having an 11m goalie getting paid 11m will never be a problem, but anyone (doesn't matter if it's a goalie, D or W) that's overpaid by a decent amount will ALWAYS be a problem.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Mistercosmic said:

Yes, but they're also an example of how to fundamentally realign a franchise in a new, more successful direction by making a blockbuster trade, getting rid of former important players (Huberdeau, Weegar) and bringing in one key player who is made for the playoffs (Tkachuk). And that despite having previously won the Presidents Trophy. 

 

Damn guys. Really good points. A lot of parallels and lessons to be learned from how Florida has managed their roster the last couple of years. I think there was a time they wish they didn't have Bobrovsky, but I think they had to have a "come to Jesus" moment and realize they were purely an offensive team and bad at everything else - leaving their goalie out to dry. Sounds pretty fucking familiar.

 

Even they knew the President's Trophy meant dick if they wanted to actually win anything, and they traded a 115 point, career Panther of 10 years, former 3rd overall star to start doing it.

 

Panarin or Zib or Kreider could be traded and if they do the right trade, be better off for doing it.

[Pete]

45 minutes ago, Mistercosmic said:

Yes, but they're also an example of how to fundamentally realign a franchise in a new, more successful direction by making a blockbuster trade, getting rid of former important players (Huberdeau, Weegar) and bringing in one key player who is made for the playoffs (Tkachuk). And that despite having previously won the Presidents Trophy. 

It helps when a player requests the trade.

[Keirik]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

There are more cases of goalies who aren't paid well winning than there are cases of the highest paid goalie winning, even Tampa Bay had Kuch on LTIR when Vasi was making bank.

 

Last year Florida went to the final and Alex Lyon ended the season and started the playoffs for them. Given the fact that Bobrovsky only has to make about 20 saves a game if that, and knowing that they have to resign Reinhardt, Florida probably wishes they weren't spending $10 million on a goalie. 

 

At the end of the day if your team is built properly from the back end out, you don't have to spend that much on a goalie. That is the model I would rather follow.

 

Can you make the goalie the highest paid player on your team? Sure. Should you? The league says you don't need to spend that much on a goalie to win, so why would you?

I do agree but this team isn't built in terms of absorbing an average to above average goalie and outscore their opponents. At least not in the playoffs. 

 

I'm all for not giving Igor the highest contract in history. I odnt think anyone wants to do so. But if we keep this team the way it is, we don't win without Igor. There are just too many small players in bigger games on this roster. Unless they figure it ut eventually of course. 

[Mistercosmic]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

It helps when a player requests the trade.

Of course. But they could also have said: "No, we're just fine. This core and team will make it, we just need some minor changes."