Walker Shesterkin Aiming for Historic Contract; Rejects 8-Year/$88M Deal ($11M AAV)

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Well he had his left leg stretched out by a forward crashing the net.  Then he came back fairly quickly after staying in the game he was injured in.  Then he looked tentative for a couple of months.

 

It happens.

He got hurt in early in Nov. He was a .905 goalie in October. He was a .923 goalie for the balance of November. .907 in December. .863  in January. Then he found his game in February. 

 

That's not injury.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I wouldn't be putting my eggs in that extremely hopeful basket.

You won't put your eggs in the basket of landing 1 player, but you'll put it in the basket of landing 4-5 players who get wildly underpaid?

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

But it does matter in the context of...This is where we are today. Going back to 2017, these are just the 1st rounders that didn't pan out:

• Liass
• Kravtsov
• Lundkvist
• Kakko

Not to mention those who don't project to be upper-echelon like Othmann and Schneider. They will be good, solid players, but they lack star power. Sounds like a team of Stepan, Callahan, McDonough...Yea they had room for 1 game-breaker in Nash, but that's not enough to win in 2024 just like it wasn't enough in 2014.

 

So you're advocating to go and do that again? That's a no from me, dawg. And are you even advocating for it? Because you said you didn't want to pay Igor either...So what are we doing here?

 

No I'm not advocating for that, because I'm telling you Fox and Lafreniere makes this different from the get go. Yes, I'm projecting Lafreniere to be that guy, with good reason based on what our eyeballs saw last year, but it is not certain. What also isn't certain is that a mid-goalie who replaces Shesterkin goes on a tear in the playoffs at the right time, or that the $4 million in cap savings on a goalie is spent in just the right way it makes a Cup winning difference.

 

I feel comfortable with the idea that if I could roll back time and stick Fox and Lafreniere on a 28 year old Lundqvist's team, I like my chances of a Cup team in the following 5-6 years. And, by the way, they signed Lundqvist to a mega contract too late at 32. Shesterkin will be 29. It is not a tom-ay-to tom-ah-to comparison in that regard either. If Fox fades from his standing as an elite player, and Lafreniere falls short of projection, then we're fucked and rebuilding for several years no matter what you're paying your goalie. So you might as well plan on it happening and deal with the consequences if it doesn't. Build around Lafreniere/Fox/Igor.

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

You won't put your eggs in the basket of landing 1 player, but you'll put it in the basket of landing 4-5 players who get wildly underpaid?

Well, first not paying Igor doesn’t mean you are “landing 1 player” away from a Cup. And second, I don’t think you need that many value contracts because of an extra $4 million put into the goalie position. Maybe 2. They already have one long term (Fox, who is really worth about $2 million more than he gets).

 

The Rangers’ problem is not a contract value problem. It’s a veteran core problem, and they make all the money. That’s the money you need to get back to reconfigure the team around Fox/Lafreniere/Shesterkin.

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

No I'm not advocating for that, because I'm telling you Fox and Lafreniere makes this different from the get go. Yes, I'm projecting Lafreniere to be that guy, with good reason based on what our eyeballs saw last year, but it is not certain. What also isn't certain is that a mid-goalie who replaces Shesterkin goes on a tear in the playoffs at the right time, or that the $4 million in cap savings on a goalie is spent in just the right way it makes a Cup winning difference.

 

I feel comfortable with the idea that if I could roll back time and stick Fox and Lafreniere on a 28 year old Lundqvist's team, I like my chances of a Cup team in the following 5-6 years. And, by the way, they signed Lundqvist to a mega contract too late at 32. Shesterkin will be 29. It is not a tom-ay-to tom-ah-to comparison in that regard either. If Fox fades from his standing as an elite player, and Lafreniere falls short of projection, then we're fucked and rebuilding for several years no matter what you're paying your goalie. So you might as well plan on it happening and deal with the consequences if it doesn't. Build around Lafreniere/Fox/Igor.

OK. I can see a lot of that, actually.

 

But that would make Lafreniere Nash (but better in the playoffs, and that's what that team needed, I admit), but Fox is not a great playoff performer either. Then what do we just hope Perrault pops? I guess that's a choice.

 

I just think at the end of the say it's better to have cap flexibility than not to have it. I'm also not suggesting replacing Shesty with a mid goalie. What I'm saying you can win with a mid goalie and that you can get a really good goalie for much less than  +$12M. 

[jsm7302]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

No I'm not advocating for that, because I'm telling you Fox and Lafreniere makes this different from the get go. Yes, I'm projecting Lafreniere to be that guy, with good reason based on what our eyeballs saw last year, but it is not certain. What also isn't certain is that a mid-goalie who replaces Shesterkin goes on a tear in the playoffs at the right time, or that the $4 million in cap savings on a goalie is spent in just the right way it makes a Cup winning difference.

 

I feel comfortable with the idea that if I could roll back time and stick Fox and Lafreniere on a 28 year old Lundqvist's team, I like my chances of a Cup team in the following 5-6 years. And, by the way, they signed Lundqvist to a mega contract too late at 32. Shesterkin will be 29. It is not a tom-ay-to tom-ah-to comparison in that regard either. If Fox fades from his standing as an elite player, and Lafreniere falls short of projection, then we're fucked and rebuilding for several years no matter what you're paying your goalie. So you might as well plan on it happening and deal with the consequences if it doesn't. Build around Lafreniere/Fox/Igor.

Laf had a good year last year but I'm not hanging my hat on him being "the guy". The sample size just isn't there to say he will be. He is certainly a piece but we will need a Panarin or other star up front to make this team viable. It's not a 4m dollar player we are talking about. That 4mil can compound on Kreiders salary if he is moved or any other salary that is moved for a top 6 winger/center. I think it has been summarized well that the difference in salary isn't worth the difference in quality of player when it comes to goalies. Goalies don't score goals and no matter how many he stops, we need to pot more than he allows. We need $$ spent on goals from our top 6. Take that 4 mil and sign that elusive RW we can't seem to find or shore up our disgustingly thin center depth. 

[Phil]

 

[BrooksBurner]

30 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Laf had a good year last year but I'm not hanging my hat on him being "the guy". The sample size just isn't there to say he will be. He is certainly a piece but we will need a Panarin or other star up front to make this team viable. It's not a 4m dollar player we are talking about. That 4mil can compound on Kreiders salary if he is moved or any other salary that is moved for a top 6 winger/center. I think it has been summarized well that the difference in salary isn't worth the difference in quality of player when it comes to goalies. Goalies don't score goals and no matter how many he stops, we need to pot more than he allows. We need $$ spent on goals from our top 6. Take that 4 mil and sign that elusive RW we can't seem to find or shore up our disgustingly thin center depth. 

 

There's some irony in saying we need more goals from our top 6, and a suggested route is to cash in the $6.5 million 40 goal player, add $4 million to it to the salary to get someone else. That's not a viable answer in my view.

 

The thing is I agree with the sentiment of you and others that in an ideal world and scenario, you've got that mid-range goalie who is capable of playing well when it matters, and in exchange you've got an extra high cap stud up front. It's great if you can achieve it, but it's also incredibly unlikely. You have to play the hand your dealt, and the Rangers simply have not been dealt that hand. They've been dealt a Lundqvist part 2 hand, which they are going to have to play, but this time it comes with having better offensive talent to work with out of the gate.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Yea, that's like the 9th time he's said that.

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

 

I've really talked myself into being okay with this. Fox/Lafreniere/Shesterkin. See which kids step up to supplement, and ride the vets out for the money to pay whoever steps up and earns it. That's your core for the next 6-8 years, and your accompanying transition plan.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

You have to play the hand your dealt, and the Rangers simply have not been dealt that hand. They've been dealt a Lundqvist part 2 hand, which they are going to have to play, but this time it comes with having better offensive talent to work with out of the gate.

 

And that's why I'll bitch about the contract until it's signed, and then I'll move on. It is what it is, and it's not going to change. I complain about that shit in the offseason, but once the season starts you have what you have and you just root for the wins.

 

It's also why I have grace from Drury right now, he didn't give out all the NTCs, he's just trying to manage them. When people call for a tear down, I actually wouldn't care if they did. But they can't, so I don't live in that world. I live in the world of...It's still a top team in the NHL, so you just take your cracks at it until the parameters change.

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

 

And that's why I'll bitch about the contract until it's signed, and then I'll move on. It is what it is, and it's not going to change. I complain about that shit in the offseason, but once the season starts you have what you have and you just root for the wins.

 

It's also why I have grace from Drury right now, he didn't give out all the NTCs, he's just trying to manage them. When people call for a tear down, I actually wouldn't care if they did. But they can't, so I don't live in that world. I live in the world of...It's still a top team in the NHL, so you just take your cracks at it until the parameters change.

 

He could have torn it down by starting to trade those who could be traded (Shesterkin, Kreider). He's still operating in win now mode, and I sure hope he is right even though I do not think he is. Based on what I am seeing, this season is not going to be some last hoorah, unless the team totally stinks. That's hard to see happening because there is plenty of talent and good players to have a strong regular season. Trouba's comments recently about this being a last hoorah for the core is really just about him getting shit canned,  and maybe moving on from Lindgren. I imagine Drury at this stage views the current window through at least 25-26, but it's only a window if Shesterkin is here and that's why you're going to see him re-signed.

[Pete]

41 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

He could have torn it down by starting to trade those who could be traded (Shesterkin, Kreider). He's still operating in win now mode, and I sure hope he is right even though I do not think he is. Based on what I am seeing, this season is not going to be some last hoorah, unless the team totally stinks. That's hard to see happening because there is plenty of talent and good players to have a strong regular season. Trouba's comments recently about this being a last hoorah for the core is really just about him getting shit canned,  and maybe moving on from Lindgren. I imagine Drury at this stage views the current window through at least 25-26, but it's only a window if Shesterkin is here and that's why you're going to see him re-signed.

There's no doubt in my mind he'll be resigned. I hope I'm wrong but I also think it'll be a huge mistake that they'll regret in the long term. 

 

But once he signed it is what it is and you play the hand your dealt, to your point. 

[Sod16]

I appreciate the view of those reluctant to sign Sheshty, but I'm just more spooked by the prospect of not signing him.  Yes, a lot of teams win with a decent modestly priced goalie, but if we dispatch Sheshty, we can't just got to Walmart and pick one of those off the shelf.  We might easily end up with a succession of hopefully decent but not decent enough goalies (see post Richter pre Hank), which would end our cup hopes with this group.  Look at all the teams with long term issues in goal who have gone through various alternatives, many pretty well paid.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Sod16 said:

I appreciate the view of those reluctant to sign Sheshty, but I'm just more spooked by the prospect of not signing him.  Yes, a lot of teams win with a decent modestly priced goalie, but if we dispatch Sheshty, we can't just got to Walmart and pick one of those off the shelf.  We might easily end up with a succession of hopefully decent but not decent enough goalies (see post Richter pre Hank), which would end our cup hopes with this group.  Look at all the teams with long term issues in goal who have gone through various alternatives, many pretty well paid.

 

This sword cuts two ways. Yes, if they walk away, there's no guarantee that they'll secure a reliable alternative. It's also true that there's no guarantee that a $12 million goaltender will actually help them win.

[jsm7302]

I think the Rangers and Bruins are waiting to see what the other does.

[Pete]

37 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This sword cuts two ways. Yes, if they walk away, there's no guarantee that they'll secure a reliable alternative. It's also true that there's no guarantee that a $12 million goaltender will actually help them win.

Exactly. And they're spending it on a known quantity, a player they already saw play at his peak with a much better team around him than they will be able to field when they're paying him more than double what he's making now. 

 

Also, personally speaking, when the inevitable regression occurs I would much rather watch a high scoring team with bad goaltending than a team built around a goaltender trying to grind out 2-1 wins. 

[Sharpshooter]

We saw about 15 or so years of that during the Lundqvist Era. lol

[RJWantsTheCup]

The Rangers should’ve signed him to a contract extension before the playoffs.  He wouldn’t have been asking for 10M+ then.  

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Exactly. And they're spending it on a known quantity, a player they already saw play at his peak with a much better team around him than they will be able to field when they're paying him more than double what he's making now. 

 

Also, personally speaking, when the inevitable regression occurs I would much rather watch a high scoring team with bad goaltending than a team built around a goaltender trying to grind out 2-1 wins. 

 

Agree with all of this, and your last point is my biggest fear. When the offense gets old and slow and stops scoring, I'm going to hate this team and blame the goalie making twice what he needs to.

[jsm7302]

The worst part of this contract is going to be the lingering effects of the buyout that will come down the road. An 8 year will turn into 10 year....

[siddious]

You guys are right we should just trade Igor and play spicy pork all year.

 

in 4 years 11.5mil won’t be nearly as bad as it sounds today. Just give the guy the deal and let the next GM deal with it.

[jsm7302]

2 hours ago, siddious said:

You guys are right we should just trade Igor and play spicy pork all year.

 

in 4 years 11.5mil won’t be nearly as bad as it sounds today. Just give the guy the deal and let the next GM deal with it.

Prolly the right way to look at it because it is inevitably going to happen. Anything over 12 and I'll be unhappy. I just hate his entitlement.

[Ozzy]

Dropping in for my weekly update:

 

"Don't do it"

"We've seen his best"

"I'm gonna hate this fucking deal"

"Too much for a goalie"

"We're going down 'Hank Highway' again"

 

...You guys know the rest!

[RJWantsTheCup]

NHL Network ranks Igor the 6th best player in the league.