Walker Shesterkin Aiming for Historic Contract; Rejects 8-Year/$88M Deal ($11M AAV)

[BrooksBurner]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

OK and who are you replacing those players with? Even when Lafreniere peaks, he's not likely to be at Panarin's level.

 

You can't worry about the playoffs if you can't get into them.

This team consistently made the playoffs without Panarin during Hank’s prime. Having him here and signed for $12m is not a prerequisite to making the playoffs. I don’t know where that silly trope came from, but it’s not true.

 

Here’s a rather irrefutable fact: without Shesterkin, and with Ullmark/(insert irrelevant $5m player here), this team is bounced from the playoffs in R1 every year with the exception to last year (Caps were awful). Without Panarin, and with $12m alotted in one of a myriad of ways, we don’t know the answer about playoff success. My guess is it would improve. Playoff Panarin is playoff Nash.

Edited October 9 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

42 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

This team consistently made the playoffs without Panarin during Hank’s prime. Having him here and signed for $12m is not a prerequisite to making the playoffs. I don’t know where that silly trope came from, but it’s not true.

 

Because you have yet to this point actually answer the question of who are you replacing the star power with. Are you talk about is the big ticket salaries leaving, but you never suggest who is going to take their place. Lafreniere and Fox are not enough to get a team to the playoffs even with Shesterkin. The Metro is the toughest division in hockey. 

 

Quote

Here’s a rather irrefutable fact: without Shesterkin, and with Ullmark/(insert irrelevant $5m player here), this team is bounced from the playoffs in R1 every year with the exception to last year (Caps were awful). Without Panarin, and with $12m alotted in one of a myriad of ways, we don’t know the answer about playoff success. My guess is it would improve. Playoff Panarin is playoff Nash.

I mean you could call it a fact, but the truth is we don't know that. 

Edited October 9 by Pete

[Keirik]

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Because you have yet to this point actually answer the question of who are you replacing the star power with. Are you talk about is the big ticket salaries leaving, but you never suggest who is going to take their place.

 

Any big ticket options in the next few years will be the same regardless of what they do with Shesterkin. Signing Shesterkin will cost an extra tertiary player, unless the money has been allocated unwisely. So why don't you just share a list of the franchise players who are hitting UFA in the next few years? The ones you think the Rangers are supposedly precluded from signing by keeping Shesterkin. While you do that, consider the likelihood that those players ever even hit UFA, and the likelihood your list of options will even perform on Broadway. As underwhelming as Panarin has been in the playoffs, he's equally outperformed expectations in the regular season when he signed. That almost never happens.

 

Quote

Lafreniere and Fox are not enough to get a team to the playoffs even with Shesterkin. The Metro is the toughest division in hockey. 

 

This is not fact. You don't know what Lafreniere or the Metro looks like in 2 years.

[Scott]

We don't even know what Laf looks like without one of the top 5 playmakers in the league leading his line. There's nobody else capable of getting him the puck the way his two linemates do especially Panarin on this team. Yes of course I hope he continues to grow. 

 

 

[Pete]

8 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Any big ticket options in the next few years will be the same regardless of what they do with Shesterkin. Signing Shesterkin will cost an extra tertiary player, unless the money has been allocated unwisely. So why don't you just share a list of the franchise players who are hitting UFA in the next few years? The ones you think the Rangers are supposedly precluded from signing by keeping Shesterkin. While you do that, consider the likelihood that those players ever even hit UFA, and the likelihood your list of options will even perform on Broadway. As underwhelming as Panarin has been in the playoffs, he's equally outperformed expectations in the regular season when he signed. That almost never happens.

 

 

This is not fact. You don't know what Lafreniere or the Metro looks like in 2 years.

It's been asked a few times...show the roster with Shesterkin making $12/13M.

[Pete]

6 hours ago, Scott said:

We don't even know what Laf looks like without one of the top 5 playmakers in the league leading his line. There's nobody else capable of getting him the puck the way his two linemates do especially Panarin on this team. Yes of course I hope he continues to grow. 

 

 

Bingo.

 

And I don't care what the Metro looks like in 2 years, Lafreniere and Fox alone are not enough, even if Lafreniere gets the magical 30 extra points he's going to somehow get on the power play that now doesn't have Panarin or peak Zib and Kreider 2 years older, also with nobody to get him the puck. 

Edited October 10 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

It's been asked a few times...show the roster with Shesterkin making $12/13M.

Nice dodge. And when did it become $13m? I see hyperbole is starting to make an appearance.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Bingo.

 

And I don't care what the Metro looks like in 2 years, Lafreniere and Fox alone are not enough, even if Lafreniere gets the magical 30 extra points he's going to somehow get on the power play that now doesn't have Panarin or peak Zib and Kreider 2 years older, also with nobody to get him the puck. 

You won’t have Panarin in two years, so who are you suggesting they replace him with?

[Pete]

36 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Nice dodge. And when did it become $13m? I see hyperbole is starting to make an appearance.

You have this habit of projecting, or setting a fire and then pointing somewhere else and yelling fire! 

 

You're talking about dodging but you haven't posted the lineup despite being asked probably a dozen times. So you keep claiming the salary isn't going to be a hindrance, but you have yet to prove it. 

Edited October 10 by Pete

[Sharpshooter]

Pete and BB's rivalry in mid-season form!

[Pete]

35 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

You won’t have Panarin in two years, so who are you suggesting they replace him with?

Why you asking me? You're the one who owes a lineup. 

 

I'm simply saying the power play isn't going to be as good when he's gone. 

[Blue Heaven]

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

It's been asked a few times...show the roster with Shesterkin making $12/13M.

This is a silly ask tho. So many variable to consider. Which prospect takes the step? Who sucks and needs to be removed? Will Chytil survive the season? Will Laf be a 7m player or a 10m player? Will we be able to remove Trouba without any cap hit penalty? Who's hitting UFA? Who's suddenly available in a potential trade?

 

Signed for 2025-26:

Panarin 11.6m

Zib 8.5m

Kreider 6.5m

Trocheck 5.6m

Fil 4.4m

5 forwards = 36.6m

 

Fox 9.5m

Trouba 8m

Schneider 2.2m

3 D = 19.7m

 

Igor 11.5m

 

Total = 67.8m, projected cap is 92.5m.

 

So with all 3 C's, two of the four top 6 wingers, our only stud D and our stud goalie locked up we have ~25m left (this is with Trouba). We need 7 skaters, 3Ds, a backup. Laf will take a good chunk of that 25m, but there's also many potential prospects that can take a roster spot at, or close to, ELC. Mancini, Jones, Othman, Berard, Sykora etc.

 

2025/26 will be tight, but the year after there's 20m extra (Panarin and Trouba out).

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Why you asking me? You're the one who owes a lineup. 

 

I'm simply saying the power play isn't going to be as good when he's gone. 

You and Phil are making the claim that there’s a cap crunch after Panarin leaves, so you actually owe me the proof. I’ll show you the counter.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

This is a silly ask tho. So many variable to consider. Which prospect takes the step? Who sucks and needs to be removed? Will Chytil survive the season? Will Laf be a 7m player or a 10m player? Will we be able to remove Trouba without any cap hit penalty? Who's hitting UFA? Who's suddenly available in a potential trade?

 

Signed for 2025-26:

Panarin 11.6m

Zib 8.5m

Kreider 6.5m

Trocheck 5.6m

Fil 4.4m

5 forwards = 36.6m

 

Fox 9.5m

Trouba 8m

Schneider 2.2m

3 D = 19.7m

 

Igor 11.5m

 

Total = 67.8m, projected cap is 92.5m.

 

So with all 3 C's, two of the four top 6 wingers, our only stud D and our stud goalie locked up we have ~25m left (this is with Trouba). We need 7 skaters, 3Ds, a backup. Laf will take a good chunk of that 25m, but there's also many potential prospects that can take a roster spot at, or close to, ELC. Mancini, Jones, Othman, Berard, Sykora etc.

 

2025/26 will be tight, but the year after there's 20m extra (Panarin and Trouba out).

It's not a silly ask, and you seem to do a good enough job of it LOL.

 

Laf and Miller are going to get big raises. And if you expect to fill out half the lineup with rookies, then that's simply not going to be as good of a team.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

Why you asking me? You're the one who owes a lineup. 

I've yet to see a roster without Shesterkin that has a chance of advancing past R1 too.

 

The argument that "This team didn't win with Shesterkin at 6m, so it's definitely impossible with Shesterkin at 11-12m" is very funny, cause if you think this team can't win with Shesterkin making 6m, they sure as hell won't win with a worse goalie making 6-8m, which is what seems to be the popular alternative to extending Shesterkin.

[Pete]

Just now, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I've yet to see a roster without Shesterkin that has a chance of advancing past R1 too.

 

The argument that "This team didn't win with Shesterkin at 6m, so it's definitely impossible with Shesterkin at 11-12m" is very funny, cause if you think this team can't win with Shesterkin making 6m, they sure as hell won't win with a worse goalie making 6-8m, which is what seems to be the popular alternative to extending Shesterkin.

Because "worse" in this case is a very slim drop off. There's not much of a difference between Shesterkin and $8 million goalies like Swayman. At least not enough of a difference to justify what he's asking for. 

 

And the fact is that it takes money to improve your team. Hard stop. You have less money if you're investing 13 or 14 million in goaltending. 

 

The reasons not to give him this contract have already been posted, been covered by the athletic, and it's irrefutable. They will give him this contract and they will regret it halfway through. 

[lefty9]

19 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

ok, we wont

It doesn't mean it will happen ,the man could have 5more years of top level goaltending 

Fuck those stats ,those stats showed the  Mets where suppose to finish in the bottom of their  division, they are now two rounds into the playoffs and playing in the for national league champoinship.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Just now, Pete said:

It's not a silly ask, and you seem to do a good enough job of it LOL.

 

Laf and Miller are going to get big raises. And if you expect to fill out half the lineup with rookies, then that's simply not going to be as good of a team.

Hardly a lineup when it's missing half the roster, but I tried lol.

 

Laf sure, I'm not sold on Miller. I would much rather take my chances with Shesterkin at 11m and a 2-3m LD than I would Miller at 6-7m and some other goalie around 6-7m. Could potentially get a nice haul for Miller in a trade too.

 

And I agree the team probably won't be very good next season in this situation, but I think the alternative without Shesterkin is even worse.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

You and Phil are making the claim that there’s a cap crunch after Panarin leaves, so you actually owe me the proof. I’ll show you the counter.

No, you just want somebody else to post a lineup so you could pick it apart rather than put your own lineup out there to be picked apart. 

 

Good try though.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Hardly a lineup when it's missing half the roster, but I tried lol.

 

Laf sure, I'm not sold on Miller. I would much rather take my chances with Shesterkin at 11m and a 2-3m LD than I would Miller at 6-7m and some other goalie around 6-7m. Could potentially get a nice haul for Miller in a trade too.

 

And I agree the team probably won't be very good next season in this situation, but I think the alternative without Shesterkin is even worse.

If the money is used to find a legitimate right wing like Raantanen or shore up the defense (bye Lindgren, Trouba, etc.) then you make the team less reliant on goaltending. 

 

When is the last time a team that was completely reliant on goaltending won a cup?

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

No, you just want somebody else to post a lineup so you could pick it apart rather than put your own lineup out there to be picked apart. 

 

Good try though.

You’re projecting.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

You’re projecting.

Cool. You going to post the lineup or not?

 

Because even if they traded Trouba and took no money back, that cash goes directly to Shesterkin.

 

How are you paying Lafreniere and Miller?

Edited October 10 by Pete

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Because "worse" in this case is a very slim drop off. There's not much of a difference between Shesterkin and $8 million goalies like Swayman. At least not enough of a difference to justify what he's asking for. 

But there's no one like Swayman available.

 

Most of the other good goalies have recently re-signed somewhere, no? Hellebuyck, Swayman, Ullmark, Markstrom.

 

We won't get a tier 2 goalie at 7-8m, we'll have to overpay for a tier 3 goalie at 5-7m, and as Phil recently proved - good goalies tend to be good for 2-3 years max. It's danger-zone deluxe and we'll probably regret that one way before it's halfway done.