The Filip Chytil Situation: Blessing or Curse?

[Sod16]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Bread: Italian or French 

Just so long as it is not Brezhnev era moldy Russian brown bread.

 

The trouble with using him as a center is that it takes a greater commitment than using him as a wing. When a center gets hurt, replacing him tends to be more complicated.

[Br4d]

Chytil had zero goals last season after the initial concussion in pre-season in 16 games played with a wide gap between the first 10 and the last 6.

 

We have no idea if he is still an effective hockey player at this point.

Edited June 5 by Br4d

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Chytil had zero goals last season after the initial concussion in pre-season in 16 games played with a wide gap between the first 10 and the last 6.

 

We have no idea if he is still an effective hockey player at this point.

He's under contract and healthy enough to play, and probably untradable, so they need to find a way to make him effective.

[RangerDanger]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Where do I see Chytil landing next year? Between Cuylle and Kakko.

 

Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko.

I think you're right on this, though it doesn't inspire any excitement whatsoever. 

[BrooksBurner]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yea we're not agreeing on Zib at all. I don't think there's any debate that Kreider doesn't move the puck up ice. I don't think there's any debate that they don't have a right wing. I don't think there's any debate that all three players on the Bread line are capable of moving the puck and gaining the zone. I don't think there's any debate that that line was more successful five on five than Zib's line. So the answer to me is pretty clear, you can't have one guy on the line doing all the heavy lifting with no support from his line mates and then get upset about that one player's effectiveness when they're doing everything. 

 

Regarding Cuylle, It's surely a risk but I don't think it's fair to put him in a box anymore than Chytil. He brings a lot of the same attributes that Kreider does, defensive ability, speed, size, willingness to shoot, but with much more effort attached. 

 

I know we disagree on CKs effort level though. 

 

We had two players who could drive a line by themselves. Zib did it when he was better. Panarin did it when he had to lug around Strome and Dryden Hunt. Zib couldn't do it with the same situation this year as previous years. That's a regression. Yes. A regressed Zibanejad might need more than the same Chris Kreider, and a revolving door on the right. Or he might bounce back and be better.

[Br4d]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

We had two players who could drive a line by themselves. Zib did it when he was better. Panarin did it when he had to lug around Strome and Dryden Hunt. Zib couldn't do it with the same situation this year as previous years. That's a regression. Yes. A regressed Zibanejad might need more than the same Chris Kreider, and a revolving door on the right. Or he might bounce back and be better.

 

If you take away the power play Zib is barely a 2C and maybe not that.

 

He's losing the power play next year unless the Rangers are insane.  There's a huge difference between his value with the PP factored in and not.

 

This might well be the last off-season we can make a deal for Zib and get anything significant back in return.  Because of his NMC this will never be doable at the deadline.  We need to spend a lot of time and effort thinking about how to move him now.

 

Otherwise the next GM will be suffering along about '27 when things get really bad.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

If you take away the power play Zib is barely a 2C and maybe not that.

 

He's losing the power play next year unless the Rangers are insane.  There's a huge difference between his value with the PP factored in and not.

 

This might well be the last off-season we can make a deal for Zib and get anything significant back in return.  Because of his NMC this will never be doable at the deadline.  We need to spend a lot of time and effort thinking about how to move him now.

 

Otherwise the next GM will be suffering along about '27 when things get really bad.

He's not going to lose the power play and he's not going to waive his NMC, so you better learn to live with it  

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

If you take away the power play Zib is barely a 2C and maybe not that.

 

He's losing the power play next year unless the Rangers are insane.  There's a huge difference between his value with the PP factored in and not.

 

This might well be the last off-season we can make a deal for Zib and get anything significant back in return.  Because of his NMC this will never be doable at the deadline.  We need to spend a lot of time and effort thinking about how to move him now.

 

Otherwise the next GM will be suffering along about '27 when things get really bad.

 

Zibanejad was 92nd in 5v5 points amongst centers per NST, with 25 points. That is a 3C offensively. Special teams and defense bumped him up to 2nd line value. Kreider's 5v5 production was unchanged from the previous 2 years. That makes it a Zib issue to solve.

 

I agree 100%, but I haven't allowed my mind to even go there because of the unlikelihood of Zib waiving and another team wanting the contract. You give a guy like Zib that contract for the front half of it. He's already showing signs of regression 2 years in. Nobody would take it in their right mind.

 

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Zibanejad was 92nd in 5v5 points amongst centers per NST, with 25 points. That is a 3C offensively. Special teams and defense bumped him up to 2nd line value. Kreider's 5v5 production was unchanged from the previous 2 years. That makes it a Zib issue to solve.

 

I agree 100%, but I haven't allowed my mind to even go there because of the unlikelihood of Zib waiving and another team wanting the contract. You give a guy like Zib that contract for the front half of it. He's already showing signs of regression 2 years in. Nobody would take it in their right mind.

 

Krieder 5v5 production remains unchanged because he has somebody feeding him pucks. Zib doesn't. Zib makes Krieder better. Kreider doesn't make anyone better. 

 

Zib's 5v5 started to dip when they lost their RW.

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Krieder 5v5 production remains unchanged because he has somebody feeding him pucks. Zib doesn't. Zib makes Krieder better. Kreider doesn't make anyone better. 

 

Zib's 5v5 started to dip when they lost their RW.

 

Their top two RW TOI was Wheeler for 289 minutes and Kakko for 223 minutes this year. Last year it was Kakko with 229 and Vesey with 150. There's really no difference. On paper, Wheeler was an upgrade even. They didn't lose anything at RW and Kreider produced the same. Simple algebra here. A + B + C = D. A and C didn't change.

 

Zib's drop off in performance is on him and him alone. He needs to own that.

[Br4d]

Chicago is the first team we should focus on in terms of our vet trades.  They are going to want to accelerate the Bedard window after his injury scare last season.

 

There's no point in getting the #1 overall if you don't have a solid plan for building around him quickly.

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Their top two RW TOI was Wheeler for 289 minutes and Kakko for 223 minutes this year. Last year it was Kakko with 229 and Vesey with 150. There's really no difference. On paper, Wheeler was an upgrade even. They didn't lose anything at RW and Kreider produced the same. Simple algebra here. A + B + C = D. A and C didn't change.

 

Zib's drop off in performance is on him and him alone. He needs to own that.

I was talking about Buchnevich.

 

I think you're being a little too simplistic with the way you're looking at it, but we don't need to agree. I think we both agree that it needs to be figured out and supported because Zib ain't going anywhere.

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

I was talking about Buchnevich.

 

I think you're being a little too simplistic with the way you're looking at it, but we don't need to agree. I think we both agree that it needs to be figured out and supported because Zib ain't going anywhere.

 

Zibanejad still had 2 very good years of line driving play after Buchnevich.

 

You say simplistic. I say Occam's razor. "It's not Zibanejad, it's both of his wings" is applying calculus when all that's needed is algebra.

 

Yeah, we agree he's probably not going anywhere, but the overall view on what to do with him is going to be completely different because we view his results and his play through different lenses. The stats and the eye test jived on this one unfortunately.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Zibanejad still had 2 very good years of line driving play after Buchnevich.

 

You say simplistic. I say Occam's razor. "It's not Zibanejad, it's both of his wings" is applying calculus when all that's needed is algebra.

 

Yeah, we agree he's probably not going anywhere, but the overall view on what to do with him is going to be completely different because we view his results and his play through different lenses. The stats and the eye test jived on this one unfortunately.

For you they did, but for others it is too simplistic. Shayna broke it down.

 

I think the thing we can say that's fair to both our POVs is that you need to try different wingers before you decide how to move forward. Yea, maybe Kreider will get his cookies no matter who he's with, but if you want goals from Zib (assists aren't the issue), something has to change because Kreider and the existing RWs aren't supporting or contributing to that outcome.

 

I don't know what a buyout looks like, but a trade would be hard.

Edited June 5 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

For you they did, but for others it is too simplistic. Shayna broke it down.

 

I think the thing we can say that's fair to both our POVs is that you need to try different wingers before you decide how to move forward. Yea, maybe Kreider will get his cookies no matter who he's with, but if you want goals from Zib (assists aren't the issue), something has to change because Kreider and the existing RWs aren't supporting or contributing to that outcome.

 

I don't know what a buyout looks like, but a trade would be hard.

His contract is buyout proof for the entirety of the contract.

Even if we limit the scope to “run it back”, what you would do != what I would do != what the team would do. I expect the team to invest in a better RW acquisition, and that’s what I would want. But I think the team would just plop him next to KZ.

[RichieNextel305]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

His contract is buyout proof for the entirety of the contract.

Even if we limit the scope to “run it back”, what you would do != what I would do != what the team would do. I expect the team to invest in a better RW acquisition, and that’s what I would want. But I think the team would just plop him next to KZ.

I don’t even know what type of RW they could look at.

 

Tarasenko played well there in a short sample. He’s defensively responsible. He isn’t the same guy he once was but he has plenty of experience. Do we go back to that route and try and give him a full season with Zibanejad? He can probably be had for a contract we may be able to afford for a year, maybe with some tinkering. But do we go back down that road?

 

They put a lot of work into research on Jake Guentzel in March. If they ever did move Trouba, is that something you look at as a long-term investment? I’m not sure long-term he makes sense; he made sense at the deadline, but I get the reasons for passing given the cost to acquire him. But if shit gets moving here, does Drury look at that as someone who can maybe be an answer for the question?

 

Do you check the trade market? Do you see what acquiring Buchnevich again costs? I’m sure there are names none of us can even fathom in UFA or on the market that can be considered too.

 

Just a ton of options depending on how things shake up roster wise in the coming weeks for us.

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

His contract is buyout proof for the entirety of the contract.

Even if we limit the scope to “run it back”, what you would do != what I would do != what the team would do. I expect the team to invest in a better RW acquisition, and that’s what I would want. But I think the team would just plop him next to KZ.

Yea, exactly LOL.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I wouldn't go near Tarasenko.   He isn't the same player he once was.  If they are looking for an older experienced RW I would entertain Kane first.

[Scott]

Chytil has them in a big bind imo.  He's had one solid season and one really good playoff round in 7 years and now is a huge risk to stay healthy. Chytil potentially coming in and out of the line up or worse if he gets sneezed on the wrong way makes him virtually impossible to count on until he proves otherwise.  Then if he does stay healthy are you getting the guy who overall has been disappointing/uninspiring  over 7 seasons sans the one (which wasn't even all that great 49 pts in 81 games). His deal is team friendly but only if he stays healthy.

 

On the end he's another unknown in a postseason where they desperately need answers not what ifs.

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I don’t even know what type of RW they could look at.

 

Tarasenko played well there in a short sample. He’s defensively responsible. He isn’t the same guy he once was but he has plenty of experience. Do we go back to that route and try and give him a full season with Zibanejad? He can probably be had for a contract we may be able to afford for a year, maybe with some tinkering. But do we go back down that road?

 

They put a lot of work into research on Jake Guentzel in March. If they ever did move Trouba, is that something you look at as a long-term investment? I’m not sure long-term he makes sense; he made sense at the deadline, but I get the reasons for passing given the cost to acquire him. But if shit gets moving here, does Drury look at that as someone who can maybe be an answer for the question?

 

Do you check the trade market? Do you see what acquiring Buchnevich again costs? I’m sure there are names none of us can even fathom in UFA or on the market that can be considered too.

 

Just a ton of options depending on how things shake up roster wise in the coming weeks for us.

 

I don't think Drury is going to dink and dunk and be cheap on a top line RW this time. I think he might actually pony up to invest in a younger, longer term option.

[RichieNextel305]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't think Drury is going to dink and dunk and be cheap on a top line RW this time. I think he might actually pony up to invest in a younger, longer term option.

Any suggestions? I’m just curious who some people are thinking of.

 

Guentzel is an in-between because he isn’t old and and he isn’t young. But he’s gonna be looking for a retirement contract.

 

To me, there is an allure there just because it was ruffle feathers in that locker room. I think Guentzel, even with his size, is a prick to play against. And he’s had some battles with this Rangers team. There is no love lost there between he and several members of our core. Maybe he can come in and be that guy that can find room in the playoffs and help push us over the top?

 

But again, he’s gonna get paid. Not many teams know him for the player he is as well as this Rangers team does. 13 playoffs games against him over 3 seasons, plus countless regular season games too.

 

But what are some ideas? 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Isn't Guentzel a LW?

[RichieNextel305]

2 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Isn't Guentzel a LW?

He plays both sides.

[RJWantsTheCup]

3 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

He plays both sides.

I'll take your word for it.  I don't see him listed anywhere as other than a LW.

[RangersIn7]

30 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

He plays both sides.

To my recollection, he’s never played anywhere but LW.