Free Agent Target: Patrick Kane; Update: Re-Signs with Red Wings

[Br4d]

27 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

Of all the RW out there, I'd prefer Kane.  I don't want a giant contract on the books, and Kane's proven he's still got it with Detroit. 47 points in 50 games says enough to me - 32 at ES.

 

Give him 2 years at 4-5 per - fine. That's the RW answer for KZ - they say they need a passer? He's a great passer.. It keeps the cap structure in order and adds a high-quality player at an affordable clip. The contract can be structured to easily avoid the pitfalls of 35+ deals.

 

To me, this is the move. Him, or Arvidsson.  

 

At 4.5M for 2 I am good with the deal.  It either works or the window is slammed shut in a year or two and the Rangers have to start doing effective things to rebuild the roster around Laf.

 

I think if the Rangers sign Kane to a low-term deal the odds go up enormously on Igor getting his 11.5M or whatever.  Drury isn't going to want to handicap this window after signing Kane and he isn't going to want to go into the rebuild empty-handed.

 

Edit: Hopefully if Drury does re-sign Igor high the deal does not include an NMC.  Limited NTC is fine but deals where you just can't unload a huge contract are a disaster.

 

Re-edit:  Whatever Drury does I would be very careful to make sure Laf is actually signed with us on the next contract.  Don't want him to get to RFA and negotiate with the Canadian teams and then hit UFA after that with the Rangers in decline and some Canadian team looking like a better competitive landing spot.

 

If Laf does what a lot of us think he will do he will have half the NHL bidding for him when he finally goes free.

Edited June 24 by Br4d

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

At 4.5M for 2 I am good with the deal.  It either works or the window is slammed shut in a year or two and the Rangers have to start doing effective things to rebuild the roster around Laf.

 

I think if the Rangers sign Kane to a low-term deal the odd go up enormously on Igor getting his 11.5M or whatever.  Drury isn't going to want to handicap this window after signing Kane and he isn't going to want to go into the rebuild empty-handed.

 

The way I see it is if Drury has already made up his mind that no big, effectual changes are made, it really doesn't matter to me if it's Kane or someone else.

 

No more than 2 years is the key though. the other key part is trade protection. It sounds like Kane probably wants a full NTC/NMC. I would be ok with a full NMC both years, and a full NTC year 1, but the 2nd year has to be a modified NTC (12 teams?). If things aren't looking good in year 2 from a team performance perspective, he has to be moveable for an asset.

 

Edited June 24 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I'd actually like to see them separate Mika and Kreider for 5v5, and just use the Mika/CK20 connection for the PP.  I'd really love to see them put Cuylle up there with Kane and Mika.

 

That would be a sweet #2 Line to go behind Tro/Laff/Panarin.

Agreed but I just don't see it happening. Drury pretty much said they were looking for a RW for them, internally and externally, which to me signals both players will be here and they will not be split up unless something catastrophic happens. 

[Phil]

I think you guys need to re-think what his value is. He came back and put up a point-per-game season with Detroit. It's probably something like two years with an AAV between $5 million and $6 million.

 

And you can forget "discount" talks. He has no reason to give New York one, for any reason.

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Agreed but I just don't see it happening. Drury pretty much said they were looking for a RW for them, internally and externally, which to me signals both players will be here and they will not be split up unless something catastrophic happens. 

 

Yeah, I think the bromance is gonna be kept together no matter what.  They have scored a ton.  I just really like Cuylle's game, and I think he's ready to take another step forward this season.

 

 

 

[Br4d]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

I think you guys need to re-think what his value is. He came back and put up a point-per-game season with Detroit. It's probably something like two years with an AAV between $5 million and $6 million.

 

And you can forget "discount" talks. He has no reason to give New York one, for any reason.

 

I'm fine if he's out of our price range.  I don't think he actually adds that much competitively compared to what we could get with $6M in cap space.  That's not saying he's not worth the $6M but the Rangers need that in a different form.  Our defense was a real problem in the playoffs.  Half of those guys are probably not good enough to win a Stanley Cup with unless you have Igor-standing-on-his-head-and-also-hitting-the-forwards-as-they-come-in-because-nobody-else-on-the-team-likes-that-task.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

I think you guys need to re-think what his value is. He came back and put up a point-per-game season with Detroit. It's probably something like two years with an AAV between $5 million and $6 million.

 

And you can forget "discount" talks. He has no reason to give New York one, for any reason.

The reason would be he wants to play here and they only have so much money to give him. 

 

Pretty much the same reason Blake Wheeler signed for the League minimum when he probably didn't have to. 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

Yeah, I think the bromance is gonna be kept together no matter what.  They have scored a ton.  I just really like Cuylle's game, and I think he's ready to take another step forward this season.

 

 

 

He had a really good season, he just ran out of gas as rookies normally do. 

 

I'm not on board with any plan to give him less ice time, I would try to find ways to give him more. 

[LindG1000]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

I think you guys need to re-think what his value is. He came back and put up a point-per-game season with Detroit. It's probably something like two years with an AAV between $5 million and $6 million.

 

And you can forget "discount" talks. He has no reason to give New York one, for any reason.

 

The reason is that he's made 115 million dollars in his career and he can do what he wants. If he only wants to play in NYC, well, that carries some restrictions. 

 

If he wants to go make another bag, I'm sure Utah's got a few Brinks trucks ready.

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, LindG1000 said:

 

The reason is that he's made 115 million dollars in his career and he can do what he wants. If he only wants to play in NYC, well, that carries some restrictions. 

 

If he wants to go make another bag, I'm sure Utah's got a few Brinks trucks ready.

 

Kane makes total sense in Utah.  They want to fill the building the first year and Show Time at 90% is still pretty good entertainment.

[RichieNextel305]

I disagree that he has zero reasons to give the Rangers a discount. They moved Heaven and Earth to get him here 2 years ago and he was banged up. The talk of him having unfinished business here and that he left something on the table says to me he owes the Rangers something.

 

Fact is that a lot of guys at this stage of their career take a bit of a discount to play in a place they can win. Kane has made his money, been in the room and knows the cap issues.

 

If he chooses to come here, I think it’ll be close to $3.5-4 then $5 or 6 AAV.

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

The reason would be he wants to play here and they only have so much money to give him. 

 

Pretty much the same reason Blake Wheeler signed for the League minimum when he probably didn't have to. 

 

Sure, I get that, but Wheeler didn't put up a PPG season before coming here. Maybe he shaves a little off to make it work, but he's gonna get a market value deal IMO.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Sure, I get that, but Wheeler didn't put up a PPG season before coming here. Maybe he shaves a little off to make it work, but he's gonna get a market value deal IMO.

Yea I'm not suggesting Kane signs for league minimum But the point is when you're picking your spot you have the onus to make it work financially.  

Edited June 24 by Pete

[RichieNextel305]

Agreed.

 

Hes made it no secret his desire to be a Ranger in the past, and if he is doing so again now. It’s clearly a place that interests him. I don’t think he’s looking to take them to the cleaners.

 

2 years. $3.75 Million per. He gives a little, gets to play on a contender and on a team he desires to play for. We get the RW we need at an affordable deal.

 

Win-Win for team and player IMO.

 

Also should be stated that with Goodrow now gone, Quick is the only one on the roster that has a Cup to his name. We heard a few times in the playoffs how valuable Quick was in the room in key spots when he spoke up in the playoffs in overtimes or tough spots. Kane walks in with 3 Cups and plenty of experience and can help fill that void quite a bit.

Edited June 24 by RichieNextel305

[jsm7302]

1 minute ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Agreed.

 

Hes made it no secret his desire to be a Ranger in the past, and if he is doing so again now. It’s clearly a place that interests him. I don’t think he’s looking to take them to the cleaners.

 

2 years. $3.75 Million per. He gives a little, gets to play on a contender and on a team he desires to play for. We get the RW we need at an affordable deal.

 

Win-Win for team and player IMO.

I get wanting to earn as much as you can while viable as an athlete but really.....how much more could PK88 need? I feel like you're on point. If he's interested then I think he will make his way here. Kind of like Wheeler did; took little to nothing to be here.

 

Bring him on if it's cheap. Nothing can be worse than another season of musical chairs on that line. Hopefully he can bring a steadying presence. His experience in the post season could be useful as well. 

 

We still need to get meaner though with Goodrow gone. Maybe Rempe, Edstrom and Othmann are considered to play that role?

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

I get wanting to earn as much as you can while viable as an athlete but really.....how much more could PK88 need? I feel like you're on point. If he's interested then I think he will make his way here. Kind of like Wheeler did; took little to nothing to be here.

 

Bring him on if it's cheap. Nothing can be worse than another season of musical chairs on that line. Hopefully he can bring a steadying presence. His experience in the post season could be useful as well. 

 

We still need to get meaner though with Goodrow gone. Maybe Rempe, Edstrom and Othmann are considered to play that role?

Not Othmann's game. 

[jsm7302]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Not Othmann's game. 

I get he isn't a 3/4 liner with no upside but he supposedly mixes it up a bit, no?

[Pete]

1 minute ago, jsm7302 said:

I get he isn't a 3/4 liner with no upside but he supposedly mixes it up a bit, no?

He'll line up the odd hit and mix it up a little in scrums but it's not like it's Bennett or Lomberg or a guy you need to have your head on a swivel for.

 

He's also not the relentless, grind it out, finish every single hit. He'll flyby every now and again. Maybe he adds that to his game but it's not there right now as I understand it.

 

Over to @Drew a Penalty for more. 

[Drew a Penalty]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He'll line up the odd hit and mix it up a little in scrums but it's not like it's Bennett or Lomberg or a guy you need to have your head on a swivel for.

 

He's also not the relentless, grind it out, finish every single hit. He'll flyby every now and again. Maybe he adds that to his game but it's not there right now as I understand it.

 

Over to @Drew a Penalty for more. 

 

This is pretty accurate.

 

Othmann can occasionally deliver a big hit, but it's not like you're getting one every shift or game. There are stretches where he doesn't seem as involved because he stops skating to assess his options. He's still gritty, yappy, and tough, just not at a level you're constantly aware of. I've chalked it up to his lack of assertiveness all around — he needs to lean on his strengths and become a play-driver on his own at the pro level.

 

He also just needs to get stronger and figure out how to compete against more physically mature and experienced players. It's a lot easier to blow up some 17-year-old from the Swiss leagues at the WJC than it is to blow up a 32-year-old career AHLer who knows how to take a hit. I've noticed Othmann's effectiveness as a hitter diminish as he's faced better and stronger competition.

[Bieser]

Kane on the Rangers is like that girl you can't say no to.  I'll hate myself in the morning.....I'd rather have someone younger.  That ship has sailed. 
Then the phone rings at 2:00 am....Showtime !

[RichieNextel305]

9 minutes ago, Bieser said:

Kane on the Rangers is like that girl you can't say no to.  I'll hate myself in the morning.....I'd rather have someone younger.  That ship has sailed. 
Then the phone rings at 2:00 am....Showtime !

I get the bitching and moaning. But the guy put up 47 points in 50 games last year. Say he puts up 70-80 points this year on the Zibanejad line while making $3.5 Million. How can we complain? We didn’t get even half of that from that RW slot on that line this past year.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I get the bitching and moaning. But the guy put up 47 points in 50 games last year. Say he puts up 70-80 points this year on the Zibanejad line while making $3.5 Million. How can we complain? We didn’t get even half of that from that RW slot on that line this past year.

 

About the production? You can't. But it's not about that (for me). It's about what happens in the playoffs. The reason I have such little interest is because Kane, despite his history of playoff performance, I'm not certain brings enough to drag his line mates into being more productive, which puts the Rangers in basically the same position they were in the last two years where their top guys get shut down and the team is starving for goals at ES.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I get the bitching and moaning. But the guy put up 47 points in 50 games last year. Say he puts up 70-80 points this year on the Zibanejad line while making $3.5 Million. How can we complain? We didn’t get even half of that from that RW slot on that line this past year.

You don't even need that, 55-65 points is fine for that role and paygrade and is better than anything they'd had since Buch.

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

About the production? You can't. But it's not about that (for me). It's about what happens in the playoffs. The reason I have such little interest is because Kane, despite his history of playoff performance, I'm not certain brings enough to drag his line mates into being more productive, which puts the Rangers in basically the same position they were in the last two years where their top guys get shut down and the team is starving for goals at ES.

Coming in during the off season, and without the disruption of being a TDL add, Kane would automatically become the general on that line and he's always been vocal with teammates and linemates about how to behave on the ice. SEE?!?
 

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

About the production? You can't. But it's not about that (for me). It's about what happens in the playoffs. The reason I have such little interest is because Kane, despite his history of playoff performance, I'm not certain brings enough to drag his line mates into being more productive, which puts the Rangers in basically the same position they were in the last two years where their top guys get shut down and the team is starving for goals at ES.

You don’t think Kane makes more of a dent in the playoffs than Roslovic did?

 

Kane on one hip put up 6 points in 7 games for us against the Devils.

 

Hes never been the biggest or strongest or fastest. But he knows how to produce in the playoffs.

 

And a player like him may be the key to unlocking Mika in a playoff series.

[LindG1000]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

About the production? You can't. But it's not about that (for me). It's about what happens in the playoffs. The reason I have such little interest is because Kane, despite his history of playoff performance, I'm not certain brings enough to drag his line mates into being more productive, which puts the Rangers in basically the same position they were in the last two years where their top guys get shut down and the team is starving for goals at ES.

 

I get this, but at the same time, two years ago was weird. Tarasenko is clearly in some amount of decline, we just got the top end of it. Kane was clearly labored in a way he wasn't with the Wings. Of the options out there, considering cap space, expectations, outcomes, etc - I think it's really hard to beat Kane. Especially if having Kane makes it so that Kreider uses that size of his more at ES because he thinks he might see a pass or a Zib slapper he can get a stick on.