Brooks Rangers Re-sign Kaapo Kakko to 1-year/$2.4m Extension

[Pete]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

Like Goodrow

In this case, yea. But when he was signed he was a 30-point player.

 

Frankly I think he's underutilized on the fourth line. But you can't pay that much money to someone on the fourth line who isn't putting up 30 points. 

 

Kinda like Trouba. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

In this case, yea. But when he was signed he was a 30-point player.

 

Frankly I think he's underutilized on the fourth line. But you can't pay that much money to someone on the fourth line who isn't putting up 30 points. 

 

Kinda like Trouba. 

 

I think Goodrow stinks at everything except the penalty kill.

 

But I also don't think Drury can dump both Trouba and Goodrow if he wants to maintain a win-now focus. Can't just delete the two better leaders in the room.

 

 

[Valriera]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

In this case, yea. But when he was signed he was a 30-point player.

 

Frankly I think he's underutilized on the fourth line. But you can't pay that much money to someone on the fourth line who isn't putting up 30 points. 

 

Kinda like Trouba. 

I tend to agree about goodrow being underutilized. We’ve seen two playoffs with him now where the guy can score goals just fine if someone gets him the puck, and of course continue to do all the other things and it doesn’t look like luck when he does it. I think without breaking up the lineup there’s no good spot though, but I could easily see a kreider-trochek-goodrow line being an effective second/third line.

[Phil]

39 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

I would be terrified of giving Dakota Joshua $4 million for anything more than a 1 year deal based on his body of work. He could simply just be a late bloomer; or.....he is someone who benefitted by getting 2nd line LW minutes on a high powered scoring Canucks team last season. His only NHL season where he has had more than 11 goals.

 

To put this into context, the 3rd line LW was Phil DiGiuseppe on that team. While it's entirely possible that he would click with Zibanajad & Krieder, this scenario is much more likely a watered down version of Jack Roslovic 2.0.     

 

I would be terrified of running back this roster mostly in tact, or put another way, I'd be loathe to expect any difference in outcome if they do.

 

The point I'm making here has nothing to do with that specific player. It could be anyone else provided they meet the minimum requirements I'm after, which is good 5v5 scoring numbers/play and attitude — the kind of attitude that doesn't require pulling teeth to get the player to play hard, physical hockey in the middle of the ice when the team needs it most.

 

Joshua is just one example of how that can work as a shotgun rider. On his own, he doesn't strike you as a top-line player at all, but what he brings directly complements what 20-93 need, which is a player to drag them into the fight, who will go to the net, and pay the price to stay there. A player who will fight for pucks in one-on-one battles and actually win them more than he loses them because he's physically stronger than most of his opponents.

 

If you want some examples of how this works, think Alex Burrows to the Sedins, Avery to Jagr, or Tom Wilson to the Caps. Hell, even Jesper Fast was this.

 

It's a unique swagger. A dynamic element they offer that you can't replicate in replacement level alternatives because replacement level alternatives lack the same physical will to play that punishing style.

 

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's more the attitude he brings than the production.

 

But the idea of a cap team overpaying for "attitude" is insane. 

 

Correct. And I completely understand the fear here. We've watched this team get burned so many times in the past paying for other teams' attitude players, who come in too late to be nearly as effective, but what alternative do they have? They have a lot of really encouraging reinforcements coming in Sykora, Othmann, Berard, etc. but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they're all still years away from being NHL-ready, and certainly years out from being first line ready.

 

So what alternative do we have here? Status quo won't cut it.

[Br4d]

39 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

To play on what line?

 

I don't have anything against Joseph, I think I even mentioned his name at the deadline. I think Drury is kind of in a spot where he has to invest every available penny they free up to get a top 6 RW who can do some heavy lifting and possibly get more out of Zibanejad.

 

3rd line.  Neither of them is top 6 suitable IMO.  Joseph is more likely to contribute with decent linemates and he has a pulse which sometimes seems totally missing with Kakko.

 

Nobody is going to get more out of Zibanejad unless they are driving the line.  Zib's finishing abilities are iffy at this point.

[Br4d]

18 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I think Goodrow stinks at everything except the penalty kill.

 

But I also don't think Drury can dump both Trouba and Goodrow if he wants to maintain a win-now focus. Can't just delete the two better leaders in the room.

 

 

 

Sometimes you create space for a leader to step forward when you let go of your vet leaders.

 

Laf looked like he was doing everything he could to keep Panarin's spirits up when the Panthers were running amuck in the ECF.  He has a rep as a loose goose but sometimes those guys settle down and become great leaders.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

3rd line.  Neither of them is top 6 suitable IMO.  Joseph is more likely to contribute with decent linemates and he has a pulse which sometimes seems totally missing with Kakko.

 

Nobody is going to get more out of Zibanejad unless they are driving the line.  Zib's finishing abilities are iffy at this point.

 

I tend to agree with this, but I'm reluctant to just add more soft skill in the hopes of better carrying that line from the wing. I'd rather try the opposite approach of dragging them into the fight more. I want less east-west, more north-south, straight line hockey.

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Correct. And I completely understand the fear here. We've watched this team get burned so many times in the past paying for other teams' attitude players, who come in too late to be nearly as effective, but what alternative do they have? They have a lot of really encouraging reinforcements coming in Sykora, Othmann, Berard, etc. but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they're all still years away from being NHL-ready, and certainly years out from being first line ready.

 

So what alternative do we have here? Status quo won't cut it.

 

I don't mind bringing Joshua in to be what he is, but I think that's a 3rd line player. If the goal is to find someone who is first line ready, and I agree that should be the goal (well, top 6 ready, the Rangers top line is really the Trocheck line), I think you have to keep looking.

[Br4d]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I tend to agree with this, but I'm reluctant to just add more soft skill in the hopes of better carrying that line from the wing. I'd rather try the opposite approach of dragging them into the fight more. I want less east-west, more north-south, straight line hockey.

 

The problem of course is that the main players of significance on the Rangers right now are east-west type players.

 

It's going to be hard to switch to a north-south play style with Panarin, Zibanejad and Fox collectively creating the Ranger paradigm.

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

14 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Sometimes you create space for a leader to step forward when you let go of your vet leaders.

 

Laf looked like he was doing everything he could to keep Panarin's spirits up when the Panthers were running amuck in the ECF.  He has a rep as a loose goose but sometimes those guys settle down and become great leaders.

 

I agree, but there's a learning curve there and if Drury is trying to win now that's a big roll of the dice. Certainly, the team could be better off for it 2 years down the road if they cleared the current leadership and handed off to Trocheck and Lafreniere now, for example, and stopped pretending Zibanejad and Panarin are leaders.

Edited June 14 by BrooksBurner

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't mind bringing Joshua in to be what he is, but I think that's a 3rd line player. If the goal is to find someone who is first line ready, and I agree that should be the goal (well, top 6 ready, the Rangers top line is really the Trocheck line), I think you have to keep looking.

 

I mean, you know me. You know exactly who I want. Get on the phone again and again and again and again and keep asking either Buffalo for Tuch or Minnesota for Hartman until the answer finally changes to yes.

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The problem of course is that the main players of significance on the Rangers right now are east-west type players.

 

It's going to be hard to switch to a north-south play style with Panarin, Zibanejad and Fox collectively creating the Ranger paradigm.

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting they abruptly shift as a team. That's implausible. I'm asking that they change the mix, to add a north-south dynamic to that line to force it to play in straighter lines than it normally does. Giving Kreider and ZIbaneajd another soft skill only wall flower will almost certainly result in more of the same. Giving them a bull who's first instinct is to charge the net on every rush will force them to think differently every now and then.

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

I'm not suggesting they abruptly shift as a team. That's implausible. I'm asking that they change the mix, to add a north-south dynamic to that line to force it to play in straighter lines than it normally does. Giving Kreider and ZIbaneajd another soft skill only wall flower will almost certainly result in more of the same. Giving them a bull who's first instinct is to charge the net on every rush will force them to think differently every now and then.

 

Sounds like Rempe.  Only half-kidding here.

[Phil]

Just now, Br4d said:

Sounds like Rempe.  Only half-kidding here.

 

I mean, it's the right thinking, but the wrong player. He's not capable of that (yet). But exactly the right approach.

[Br4d]

21 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I agree, but there's a learning curve there and if Drury is trying to win now that's a big roll of the dice. Certainly, the team could be better off for it 2 years down the road if they cleared the current leadership and handed off to Trocheck and Lafreniere now, for example, and stopped pretending Zibanejad and Panarin are leaders.

 

Tro for captain right now.  Laf, Schneider and Goodrow as alternates (if Goodrow is back of course.)

 

Part of the Ranger's problem right now is too many false chiefs.

[Br4d]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, it's the right thinking, but the wrong player. He's not capable of that (yet). But exactly the right approach.

 

Then bite the bullet and have Cuylle make the same change Laf made last year.

[JHS]

Yuck- like in everyway.  He's likely out of here by Feb for a trade deadline move.  I just don't see how he's going to make himself useful enough to justify another contract after this year.

[Phil]

46 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Then bite the bullet and have Cuylle make the same change Laf made last year.

I wanted them to try that down the stretch and in the playoffs when it was deathly apparent that 20-93 were in need of something — anything — to get them going 5v5. I'm still not opposed, but it's a lot to ask of a literal rookie.

[Br4d]

Just now, Phil said:

I wanted them to try that down the stretch and in the playoffs when it was deathly apparent that 20-93 were in need of something — anything — to get them going 5v5. I'm still not opposed, but it's a lot to ask of a literal rookie.

 

Next year Cuylle is a vet.  (Trying not too squint too hard as I say that.)

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Giving them a bull who's first instinct is to charge the net on every rush will force them to think differently every now and then.

Insane that Kreider needs someone else to do that on his line instead of being that on his line.

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

Insane that Kreider needs someone else to do that on his line instead of being that on his line.

 

It's insane that either of them need this. They're both built like clydesdales but play like mice.

[Br4d]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Insane that Kreider needs someone else to do that on his line instead of being that on his line.

 

Sometimes it's better to accept a player for what he is.

 

I'm actually not thrilled by the idea of trading Kreider because given his cap number and his career progression he's more likely to help the Rangers in the next few years instead of aging out.

 

However unless Drury can find a way to trade Panarin and/or Zibanejad Kreider is the move that almost has to be made.

 

It's screwed up that our most cap efficient forward (aside from Laf) is going to be the sacrifice but that's business I guess.

[Ozzy]

This is the "show-me" deal I expected for the kid. 

 

Well....it's now or never for Kakko.  I think he's going to respond in a big way this coming season.  I know progress is certainly not linear, but last season was a big step backward for Kakko.

 

I am really looking for this kid to make good on what he can be.  I hope he works his fucking ass off this off season, to be what a lot of us expected him to be.  I've been on the Kakko wagon since day 1, and even I know that this is the last chance saloon for him here.

 

Come on, Kid!!  Show us something big this coming year!  Make us eat shit like Laffy did!  That was beautiful!!!

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

This is the "show-me" deal I expected for the kid. 

 

Well....it's now or never for Kakko.  I think he's going to respond in a big way this coming season.  I know progress is certainly not linear, but last season was a big step backward for Kakko.

 

I am really looking for this kid to make good on what he can be.  I hope he works his fucking ass off this off season, to be what a lot of us expected him to be.  I've been on the Kakko wagon since day 1, and even I know that this is the last chance saloon for him here.

 

Come on, Kid!!  Show us something big this coming year!  Make us eat shit like Laffy did!  That was beautiful!!!

 

...everything you just wrote was said, to varying degrees, about his last deal.

[Ozzy]

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

...everything you just wrote was said, to varying degrees, about his last deal.

 

Last season was a rough one for the kid.  He got off to a bad start, then got hurt, and never really got back to the promise he showed the season before.  He has talent; we've seen it.

 

He can do this.  Patience wears thin fast in NY, but I still believe in this kid.  I'm not giving up on him just yet.  But this year is probably going to either be his breakout year or his Swan Song in the Big Apple