Brooks The Jacob Trouba Fiasco: Buyout? Trade? Nope, He's Probably Returning Afterall

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, siddious said:

lol reread my post dude I wasn’t calling him an idiot I was saying it would be an idiot thing to do.

 

I mean anything is possible but I would assume the “list” is set and official even though it’s not July 1 yet. Otherwise why would drury already be negotiating with someone. 

I'm partly just fucking with you. It seems like everybody here thinks that the professionals who do this for a living are idiots.

 

There could be a lot of reasons, he could have the framework of a deal in place where Detroit makes the most sense both from a cap perspective and from the fact that Trouba is familiar with the area and friends like Copp are there... So there's a good chance they wouldn't be on his list. 

 

If he does put Detroit on the list, then Drury might just go to him and say we're going to buy you out but we have to put you on waivers first and then who knows where you'll end up. 

 

It looks like Drury Is handling the business that needs to be handled while also finding soft landing places for the players, sending Goody back to San Jose being an example. 

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm partly just fucking with you. It seems like everybody here thinks that the professionals who do this for a living are idiots.

 

There could be a lot of reasons, he could have the framework of a deal in place where Detroit makes the most sense both from a cap perspective and from the fact that Trouba is familiar with the area and friends like Copp are there... So there's a good chance they wouldn't be on his list. 

 

If he does put Detroit on the list, then Drury might just go to him and say we're going to buy you out but we have to put you on waivers first and then who knows where you'll end up. 

 

It looks like Drury Is handling the business that needs to be handled while also finding soft landing places for the players, sending Goody back to San Jose being an example. 

GG?  Your favorite idiot. 
 

more incompetent than idiot. Just because someone was handed a job does not mean they’re competent at it. 

[Albatrosss]

Trouba traded to Detroit. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

so when will we hear this?

[siddious]

11 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

Trouba traded to Detroit. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

so when will we hear this?

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

GG?  Your favorite idiot. 
 

more incompetent than idiot. Just because someone was handed a job does not mean they’re competent at it. 

Wild that you're assuming he was just handed the job. It's not like you worked his way up from Hartford or anything...

[RangersIn7]

10 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I agree with all of this.

 

The bold is dependent on no retention though. The initial rumors were that he may have positive value, which insinuated that 8 million could be freed up. That would be outstanding and I agree. Then the most recent rumor was they would have to retain $2.5 million, so they cut 5.5 million. The general consensus has been he's a $4-6 million guy paid 8. You're freeing up enough money to replace what he brings. I don't agree with the current fad saying he's addition by subtraction.

Yeah… and I see the logic in what you’re saying.

 

We will just have to see how it plays it if he is in fact traded and all that transpires in that case. How much gets retained?

What player or contract might come back?

Who is his actual replacement in terms of a roster/lineup spot?

And how does that player(s) perform?

Also… who then, if anyone, is your Captain, and how does this affect the leadership and team dynamics?

 

It is a slippery slope in trading him.

More than I think people are seeing.

 

Yes… he’s substantially overpaid. But there’s so much recency bias as you’ve mentioned, and it’s all centered around his poor play over the last few weeks of the season and the playoffs where he was bad and took bad penalties and all of that… whilst playing on a broken ankle.

 

I know that every team has guys banged up and playing through stuff in the playoffs. And that no one ever offers it as an excuse, and how no one wants to hear about it. And I get why.

But come on. 
If you know a guy is playing through something serious that he wouldn’t be playing through in say, January, then it’s not at all inappropriate to point to that as the why if their play is suffering. 
We all know these guys play through shit all the time…. Perhaps they shouldn’t though. 

[Sharpshooter]

If Trouba is getting defensive, then this is the best defense he's played in New York.

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah… and I see the logic in what you’re saying.

 

We will just have to see how it plays it if he is in fact traded and all that transpires in that case. How much gets retained?

What player or contract might come back?

Who is his actual replacement in terms of a roster/lineup spot?

And how does that player(s) perform?

Also… who then, if anyone, is your Captain, and how does this affect the leadership and team dynamics?

 

It is a slippery slope in trading him.

More than I think people are seeing.

 

Yes… he’s substantially overpaid. But there’s so much recency bias as you’ve mentioned, and it’s all centered around his poor play over the last few weeks of the season and the playoffs where he was bad and took bad penalties and all of that… whilst playing on a broken ankle.

 

I know that every team has guys banged up and playing through stuff in the playoffs. And that no one ever offers it as an excuse, and how no one wants to hear about it. And I get why.

But come on. 
If you know a guy is playing through something serious that he wouldn’t be playing through in say, January, then it’s not at all inappropriate to point to that as the why if their play is suffering. 
We all know these guys play through shit all the time…. Perhaps they shouldn’t though. 

There is definitely a bad taste after the playoffs, but it's not recency bias to say Schneider has surpassed him on the depth chart and this team can't afford to pay a 3rd pairing D $8M... Especially not one who operates at level well below what his contract dictates. 

 

Anaheim is getting something similar in Gudas for $4M, but I believe he is playing further up the lineup. 

[RichieNextel305]

I know it’s a different situation considering one is UFA and the other is under contract. But I saw someone share this on Twitter and I actually agree: if Tampa can go cutthroat on Steven Stamkos, anyone is on the table in any organization in any sport.

 

Again, I know there’s a difference between a UFA and a player under contract. But for Trouba to feel blindsided, especially after how poorly he played and especially given he met with Drury where it was likely said where he ranks on the depth chart and that the organization desires to move on, is simply absurd to me.

Edited Sunday at 04:02 PM by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I know it’s a different situation considering one is UFA and the other is under contract. But I saw someone share this on Twitter and I actually agree: if Tampa can go cutthroat on Steven Stamkos, anyone is on the table in any organization in any sport.

 

Again, I know there’s a difference between a UFA and a player under contract. But for Trouba to feel blindsided, especially after how poorly he played and especially given he met with Drury where it was likely said where he ranks on the depth chart and that the organization desires to move on, is simply absurd to me.

There's something we are going on in Tampa because this isn't the first time this has happened to Stamkos and Tampa has a history of extending a year early, they did it with Hedman but not Stamkos. I'm not sure any situation can be compared to that, it seems like there's some behind the scenes stuff going on. It's just odd. 

 

What I'll say about Trouba is meeting with Drury about the go forward plan is likely what blindsided him, I wouldn't consider that something that prepared him for anything. The whole thing is probably a shock to him and maybe there's a little bit of tone deafness because an exits he said he played fine and it was clear that he didn't but also I would think he would feel blindsided as they just named him Captain a couple seasons ago. 

 

Regardless, his list isn't due until tomorrow and he has every right to be strategic about it, that was the way his contract is negotiated. 

[Bugg]

13 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I know it’s a different situation considering one is UFA and the other is under contract. But I saw someone share this on Twitter and I actually agree: if Tampa can go cutthroat on Steven Stamkos, anyone is on the table in any organization in any sport.

 

Again, I know there’s a difference between a UFA and a player under contract. But for Trouba to feel blindsided, especially after how poorly he played and especially given he met with Drury where it was likely said where he ranks on the depth chart and that the organization desires to move on, is simply absurd to me.

He was so awful in the playoffs that no idea how he could be blindsided by any of this. And hard to miss tht like Rempe often looks like the refs are looking to call penalties on him. His contract, as with Goodrow, makes it a sensible business decision. When the games are happening, sure, a team is like a family. But you can never forget this is a business, and it comes to the fore once the games end for the season. Fact his wife is still in her residency in NYC, it's a cold hard business. But one way or another he's getting $8.5 million per to assuage his ill feelings. 

[Mistercosmic]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

Trouba traded to Detroit. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

so when will we hear this?

[RangersIn7]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

There is definitely a bad taste after the playoffs, but it's not recency bias to say Schneider has surpassed him on the depth chart and this team can't afford to pay a 3rd pairing D $8M... Especially not one who operates at level well below what his contract dictates. 

 

Anaheim is getting something similar in Gudas for $4M, but I believe he is playing further up the lineup. 

Listen if you’re bringing Schneider into the conversation, and saying that Schneider has surpassed him on the depth chart, you’re correct. 
 

Having said that… I think it’s also fair to say that while Schneider is the better option over Trouba as your 2nd pairing RD, he hasn’t exactly established himself as a true top-4 D in this league.

And the numbers support that assertion at least in the surface.

Schneider is absolutely an NHL defenseman. 
He’s in the starting lineup on any team in the league.

Hes also still only 22 and improving.

And what he’s shown thus far has been very good.

But he’s also still a guy who hasn’t come anywhere near playing the type of minutes you’ll need out of any player in your top-4. 

On top of that, he’s been sheltered, as all young defensemen should be to sone extent and has benefited a lot from Fox and Trouba being in front of him. 

I’ll admit him and Miller looked pretty good together and I can see them growing into a good pair. 
I think he’ll continue to improve.

I think there’s some more to his game as well. 
And I think that his inclination and instincts on the defensive side are better than Trouba’s… that is to say, Schneider could actually be a shutdown type defender. Trouba isn’t that and never has been. 
He’s also earned the opportunity to take a whack at and getting a serious look in that role. 
 

But we definitely don’t know that Schneider can handle and thrive with that workload and responsibility entailed in those minutes in that role.

 

Its not an insignificant ask out of him at this point.

 

Bottom line… he’s earned the chance. I think he can do it. But it still remains to be seen and how effective he’ll be. 

 

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Listen if you’re bringing Schneider into the conversation, and saying that Schneider has surpassed him on the depth chart, you’re correct. 
 

Having said that… I think it’s also fair to say that while Schneider is the better option over Trouba as your 2nd pairing RD, he hasn’t exactly established himself as a true top-4 D in this league.

And the numbers support that assertion at least in the surface.

Schneider is absolutely an NHL defenseman. 
He’s in the starting lineup on any team in the league.

Hes also still only 22 and improving.

And what he’s shown thus far has been very good.

But he’s also still a guy who hasn’t come anywhere near playing the type of minutes you’ll need out of any player in your top-4. 

On top of that, he’s been sheltered, as all young defensemen should be to sone extent and has benefited a lot from Fox and Trouba being in front of him. 

I’ll admit him and Miller looked pretty good together and I can see them growing into a good pair. 
I think he’ll continue to improve.

I think there’s some more to his game as well. 
And I think that his inclination and instincts on the defensive side are better than Trouba’s… that is to say, Schneider could actually be a shutdown type defender. Trouba isn’t that and never has been. 
He’s also earned the opportunity to take a whack at and getting a serious look in that role. 
 

But we definitely don’t know that Schneider can handle and thrive with that workload and responsibility entailed in those minutes in that role.

 

Its not an insignificant ask out of him at this point.

 

Bottom line… he’s earned the chance. I think he can do it. But it still remains to be seen and how effective he’ll be. 

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with any of this. I think he absolutely established himself as a second pair of defenseman with his play with Miller. I don't know what else he would have to do to prove it other than continue to do it and he can't continue to do it unless he stays where he is. 

 

And if he's staying where he is then that leaves you with 8 million dollars on the third pair... That's just not something this team can entertain. 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:04 PM by Pete

[RangersIn7]

40 minutes ago, Pete said:

Sorry, but I don't agree with any of this. I think he absolutely established himself as a second pair of defenseman with his play with Miller. I don't know what else he would have to do to prove it other than continue to do it and he can't continue to do it unless he stays where he is. 

 

And if he's staying where he is then that leaves you with 8 million dollars on the third pair... That's just not something this team can entertain. 

 

He played 9 games this year, including the playoffs, where he played 20 minutes or more.

 

Now I’ll agree that he and Miller looked good together and that there’s a good chance those 2 do well together moving forward.

 

But it’s still only 9 games… out of 98 that he played in.

 

What else would he have to do to prove it???

Do so for more than just 9 games. 
 

Again I think he’s earned that spot and opportunity.

And he probably makes good on it.

 

Just saying, for me at least, early returns notwithstanding, he hasn’t fully proven or established that he can do it full-time and long-term.

 

Though I think he absolutely will. 
 

Maybe I’m arguing on a technicality… but it’s not something that can be taken for granted. 

[Br4d]

Are we better off getting an asset of some sort in return for Trouba while retaining part of his salary the next two seasons or waiving him and hoping somebody takes the whole enchilada?

[Pete]

35 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

He played 9 games this year, including the playoffs, where he played 20 minutes or more.

 

Now I’ll agree that he and Miller looked good together and that there’s a good chance those 2 do well together moving forward.

 

But it’s still only 9 games… out of 98 that he played in.

 

What else would he have to do to prove it???

Do so for more than just 9 games. 
 

Again I think he’s earned that spot and opportunity.

And he probably makes good on it.

 

Just saying, for me at least, early returns notwithstanding, he hasn’t fully proven or established that he can do it full-time and long-term.

 

Though I think he absolutely will. 
 

Maybe I’m arguing on a technicality… but it’s not something that can be taken for granted. 

I think he's made enough progress that you can "gamble" on losing Trouba... Who, no matter what pairing you play him on, does not live up to his contract. You need to be a 40-point guy who is incredibly solid at defending for that amount of money, and he's neither. 

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Are we better off getting an asset of some sort in return for Trouba while retaining part of his salary the next two seasons or waiving him and hoping somebody takes the whole enchilada?

I can live with either one of those. 

[Rangers1994]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

Are we better off getting an asset of some sort in return for Trouba while retaining part of his salary the next two seasons or waiving him and hoping somebody takes the whole enchilada?

 

I think the Rangers would have to retain at least 25% of Trouba's salary to trade him.

[Br4d]

The Goodrow waiver looms large here.  Trouba is unlikely to be thinking the Rangers are bluffing/have no options here.

[Rangers1994]

Can they put Trouba on waivers anytime?  Or do they have to wait a certain period after waiving Goodrow?

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

Can they put Trouba on waivers anytime?  Or do they have to wait a certain period after waiving Goodrow?

Any time. 

[RangersIn7]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think he's made enough progress that you can "gamble" on losing Trouba... Who, no matter what pairing you play him on, does not live up to his contract. You need to be a 40-point guy who is incredibly solid at defending for that amount of money, and he's neither. 

I agree he’s earned the look up there.

And I think he’ll do well.

I don’t see it as a gamble either.

 

My point on that is that while he’s earned it, and he’s likely to be the solution there, I just don’t see it as a fully established certainty at this point, though I agree that he’s going to do very well in that and I have little doubt about it working out. 
 

As for Trouba, I agree fully.

Ive always liked Trouba. 
Love his leadership, size, and physical play. And I don’t think he gets nearly enough credit for what he’s done and provided for the younger guys who have come up and established themselves while he was the primary veteran in that D corps.

That said… there’s minimal offense there, especially with the lack of PP time where he’s not any better than average to begin with. 
At his best, he’s only about “good” defensively. Most nights he’s basically average there. He’s a quality skater, but he’s never had tremendous foot speed or range. 
And of late, as he’s aged and because of the injuries, his speed has declined and he’s simply just not worth the contract anymore.

[Rangers1994]

7 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

As for Trouba, I agree fully.

Ive always liked Trouba. 
Love his leadership, size, and physical play. And I don’t think he gets nearly enough credit for what he’s done and provided for the younger guys who have come up and established themselves while he was the primary veteran in that D corps.

That said… there’s minimal offense there, especially with the lack of PP time where he’s not any better than average to begin with. 
At his best, he’s only about “good” defensively. Most nights he’s basically average there. He’s a quality skater, but he’s never had tremendous foot speed or range. 
And of late, as he’s aged and because of the injuries, his speed has declined and he’s simply just not worth the contract anymore.

 

If his intangibles are through the roof, them maybe it would pay to give him one more season.  But if he begins to bring the feud public, then maybe not.

[RangersIn7]

5 minutes ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

If his intangibles are through the roof, them maybe it would pay to give him one more season.  But if he begins to bring the feud public, then maybe not.

Meh… I get what you’re saying… but I can’t blame a guy in his position for being upset and if he says so, at least to a degree, it’s ok and it’s his right.