BrooksBurner Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Isn't that always the plan? LOL I still think we can use Jagr....retired or not! Why did we ever let Jagr go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 7 minutes ago, lefty9 said: But we dont have the studs like Edmonton does And you basically assure yourself you never will if you drop $12 million on a god damned goalie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Team with stud forwards and their 100th goalie in 5 years, loses to team with 2nd highest paid goalie = “let’s throw out Igor, hope we lose enough to land a pair of generational studs in the draft so we can emulate the losing team”. There’s something wrong with that equation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 10 minutes ago, Phil said: And you basically assure yourself you never will if you drop $12 million on a god damned goalie. I am not o the boat to sign him for kind of money ,stop blame me for his future contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 22 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Team with stud forwards and their 100th goalie in 5 years, loses to team with 2nd highest paid goalie = “let’s throw out Igor, hope we lose enough to land a pair of generational studs in the draft so we can emulate the losing team”. There’s something wrong with that equation. Not my prescription. Keep Igor. Go for broke this year. Acquire Tuch at the deadline for Othmann + Kakko + 1st (or something similar). Add whatever depth pieces they need. GO FOR BROKE and WIN (for Sam). Then let Igor walk, because I'm not paying a goalie $12 million. Period. Reinvest the money saved elsewhere to try and open a second window based on Lafreniere, Fox, and Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 56 minutes ago, lefty9 said: But we dont have the studs like Edmonton does And they never will if they pay Shesterkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 hours ago, Pete said: You don't need elite goaltending to win a cup. Well he's not the only reason, because he can't score goals. We've already seen that letting in 1 goal a game in the postseason is cool but worthless if you can't score 2 yourself. This is a red herring. If you have a .929 goalie who allows 2.49 goals a game you are much better off than a team that has a .9 goalie who allows 3.2 goals a game. For the last 3 playoff seasons Igor has 43 starts with a .929 save% and a 2.49 GAA. When the going gets tough Igor gets going unlike some of the other highly paid Rangers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 10 minutes ago, Br4d said: This is a red herring. If you have a .929 goalie who allows 2.49 goals a game you are much better off than a team that has a .9 goalie who allows 3.2 goals a game. For the last 3 playoff seasons Igor has 43 starts with a .929 save% and a 2.49 GAA. When the going gets tough Igor gets going unlike some of the other highly paid Rangers. It's not a red herring it's a fact. You don't need elite goaltending to win, and goalies don't score goals. These are facts which I cannot even believe anyone would dispute. But I'm sure you'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phil said: Not my prescription. Keep Igor. Go for broke this year. Acquire Tuch at the deadline for Othmann + Kakko + 1st (or something similar). Add whatever depth pieces they need. GO FOR BROKE and WIN (for Sam). Then let Igor walk, because I'm not paying a goalie $12 million. Period. Reinvest the money saved elsewhere to try and open a second window based on Lafreniere, Fox, and Miller. Going for broke with this team will set them back many years, and most likely cost them the rest of Fox's prime at a minimum. You might as well sign up for trading a 27 year old Fox after the season ends. I don't mind an all-in shove if the situation and data calls for it. The situation kinda calls for it, in terms of being at a crossroads on certain contracts, so I understand why you'd do it, but I can't look past the egregious 5v5 play. I said all summer I'd have torn it down to accelerate the refactoring, but that ship has sailed. The amount of damage an all in push would do this year is unconscionable to me. My opinion will reflect what the data tells me this year. If there is significant and obvious improvement at 5v5, I will adjust my view. Edited October 2 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) The 5v5 play isn't "egregious". They have problems scoring, they defend well enough, and those problems get better with a healthy Chytil and Trouba, and progression from Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, Cuylle, Jones, and Mika getting a winger who actually plays hockey and contributes to the offense aside from sanding in front of goalies like CK and missing open nets like Roslovic. Teams that go to Conf finals and win President's Trophies aren't "egregious" at anything. Edited October 2 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 29 minutes ago, Pete said: The 5v5 play isn't "egregious". They have problems scoring, they defend well enough, and those problems get better with a healthy Chytil and Trouba, and progression from Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, Cuylle, Jones, and Mika getting a winger who actually plays hockey and contributes to the offense aside from sanding in front of goalies like CK and missing open nets like Roslovic. Teams that go to Conf finals and win President's Trophies aren't "egregious" at anything. It is not egregious relative to the entire league. It is egregious relative to legitimate Cup contenders, which is the lens I am viewing this team through since that is the expectation. Agree to disagree on defending well enough. If Igor didn’t save their bacon to sustain another playoff run, the talk about defense would be much different. The changes you are talking about is like changing the tires on a Kia and thinking it can streetrace a Lambo. Yeah, there might be some minor improvement in performance, and Kias aren’t terrible vehicles, but it’s still a Kia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 I share the same concern, but not to your level. For one very specific reason: they win in spite of being a below average 5v5 team. All they need to do is improve on the margins and the odds will follow. Given how many one-goal games we're talking about in the playoffs, I'll take that bet. It's sure as fuck a better option than tearing down a Presidents Trophy-winning roster that made it to game six of the ECF. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 We win in spite of being a below average 5v5 because the goal-tending is great most of the time and when the whistles are blowing our specials are kind of special. In the playoffs we're still below 5v5 and we still have the great goal-tending but the whistles just don't blow as much, particularly on the road. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said: It is not egregious relative to the entire league. It is egregious relative to legitimate Cup contenders, which is the lens I am viewing this team through since that is the expectation. Agree to disagree on defending well enough. If Igor didn’t save their bacon to sustain another playoff run, the talk about defense would be much different. The changes you are talking about is like changing the tires on a Kia and thinking it can streetrace a Lambo. Yeah, there might be some minor improvement in performance, and Kias aren’t terrible vehicles, but it’s still a Kia. They only need minor improvements. They lost a bunch of one goal games to a team who had every piece of luck possible. The margins are razor thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Phil said: I share the same concern, but not to your level. For one very specific reason: they win in spite of being a below average 5v5 team. All they need to do is improve on the margins and the odds will follow. Given how many one-goal games we're talking about in the playoffs, I'll take that bet. It's sure as fuck a better option than tearing down a Presidents Trophy-winning roster that made it to game six of the ECF. Bingo. I'm not sure why this logic escapes so many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 5 hours ago, Pete said: The 5v5 play isn't "egregious". They have problems scoring, they defend well enough, and those problems get better with a healthy Chytil and Trouba, and progression from Lafreniere, Miller, Schneider, Cuylle, Jones, and Mika getting a winger who actually plays hockey and contributes to the offense aside from sanding in front of goalies like CK and missing open nets like Roslovic. Teams that go to Conf finals and win President's Trophies aren't "egregious" at anything. Blame everyone else for Mika sucking ,that's brilliant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, lefty9 said: Blame everyone else for Mika sucking ,that's brilliant 76 points is sucking? See what I mean about perspective being skewed? What do you think Trocheck would have done playing with Kreider and .... Nobody... Rather than an MVP and a rising star? Edited October 3 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Complaining about being productive. You'll be complaining when Zibinajed, Panarin, etc. aren't here anymore. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 2 hours ago, Pete said: 76 points is sucking? See what I mean about perspective being skewed? What do you think Trocheck would have done playing with Kreider and .... Nobody... Rather than an MVP and a rising star? You have to hold your nose to look at Zib’s 5v5. Stunk. Trocheck would be a much better linemate for Kreider than Zibanejad is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 2 hours ago, Pete said: 76 points is sucking? See what I mean about perspective being skewed? What do you think Trocheck would have done playing with Kreider and .... Nobody... Rather than an MVP and a rising star? Talking playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 But his numbers where lower last regular season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said: Complaining about being productive. You'll be complaining when Zibinajed, Panarin, etc. aren't here anymore. lol I don't have a problem with our two top lines But I think we could improve a couple of players for the bottom two lines Othman can deliver energy to this team I don't Cate if it's even on the fourth line This team lacks his energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 49 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: You have to hold your nose to look at Zib’s 5v5. Stunk. Trocheck would be a much better linemate for Kreider than Zibanejad is. Zib plays with two non-contributors on his line. He spends all his time propping them up. Tro plays with two of the best 5v5 forwards on the team. He's not the reason that line works, they are. They should actually flip centers. Bread and Lafreniere could use a defensive conscience. Tro would go back to being a 55 to 60 point player. Kreider gets his cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 26 minutes ago, lefty9 said: I don't have a problem with our two top lines But I think we could improve a couple of players for the bottom two lines Othman can deliver energy to this team I don't Cate if it's even on the fourth line This team lacks his energy With Rempe and Edstrom in the lineup more regularly, I expect that to improve this season. Edstrom doesn't play physically, but his game overall is good enough for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 34 minutes ago, Pete said: Zib plays with two non-contributors on his line. He spends all his time propping them up. Tro plays with two of the best 5v5 forwards on the team. He's not the reason that line works, they are. They should actually flip centers. Bread and Lafreniere could use a defensive conscience. Tro would go back to being a 55 to 60 point player. Kreider gets his cookies. Sorry, but this is a crock of shit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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