Seravalli Rangers and Lafreniere Working Towards $8x8 Extension

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Jacob Trouba, K’Andre Miller, Kaapo Kakko, old man Wheeler. Panarin would have a tough time elevating those guys with 30-40 seconds after a line change and the puck starting behind his own net.

That's not what it's been this year.

Quote

I get why you feel that way. I just don’t. Lafreniere had a part in enabling Panarin to have a career year, too.

I don't think the part each of them played in their career years was equitable. But only time will tell. Maybe Laf will learn enough from the experience to handle it on his own.

 

But the defenses will address him differently when they don't have Panarin to worry about.

Edited 15 hours ago by Pete

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

So far this season it hasn't been scrap time (at least compared to other seasons) and they have all played on power plays before, I don't know what you mean by a bad power play player... But regardless he should be distinguishing himself amidst that group of players and he's not. 

 

 

you dont think Laffy, who's on a PPG pace since last season going to be any good on the PP?  That's odd. 

[Albatrosss]

Laffy as of right now should be on the 1st PP unit over either Zibby or Trocheck.  Its just a matter of time before he replaces Zibby or Laviolette is an asshole

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

you dont think Laffy, who's on a PPG pace since last season going to be any good on the PP?  That's odd. 

No, that's not what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying his only ice time without Panarin is his PP2 time where he hasn't distinguished himself. He hasn't taken control of the unit. HE hasn't really done anything and looked as lost as anyone. 

 

So we still don't know what he is without Panarin. 

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

No, that's not what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying his only ice time without Panarin is his PP2 time where he hasn't distinguished himself. He hasn't taken control of the unit. HE hasn't really done anything and looked as lost as anyone. 

 

So we still don't know what he is without Panarin. 

That's true but you see the skills.  Panarin helps but he wont make Brodzinski into a 40 goal scorer.  One has to have lots of skill to put up points, even if playing with Panarin

[Pete]

Just now, Albatrosss said:

That's true but you see the skills.  Panarin helps but he wont make Brodzinski into a 40 goal scorer.  One has to have lots of skill to put up points, even if playing with Panarin

Yes, you do see this skill now...but like I said earlier, defenses key differently when Panarin isn't on the ice. Can Lafreniere be "the guy" when everyone knows he's the guy?

 

We don't know for sure but for limited minutes, results are meh. 

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Yes, you do see this skill now...but like I said earlier, defenses key differently when Panarin isn't on the ice. Can Lafreniere be "the guy" when everyone knows he's the guy?

 

We don't know for sure but for limited minutes, results are meh. 

on the PP?  i'm not worried.  They hardly even gain the zone.  I wouldnt put too much stock in that. I mean, what have you seen from Zibby or Trrocheck to say 'wow'...they should be playing over Laffy?

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

on the PP?  i'm not worried.  They hardly even gain the zone.  I wouldnt put too much stock in that. I mean, what have you seen from Zibby or Trrocheck to say 'wow'...they should be playing over Laffy?

I already said I'm not talking about the power play lol. 

 

I'm simply saying the only place we have seen him without Panarin is on PP2 and the results there have not encouraged any faith that he will be able to produce without Panarin at ES. 

 

You're right, they can't even gain the zone on the power play... What faith does that inspire in Lafreniere and even Chytil when they may be linemates one day?

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Pete

[Albatrosss]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

I already said I'm not talking about the power play lol. 

 

I'm simply saying the only place we have seen him without Panarin is on PP2 and the results there have not encouraged any faith that he will be able to produce without Panarin at ES. 

 

You're right, they can't even gain the zone on the power play... What faith does that inspire in Lafreniere and even Chytil when they may be linemates one day?

 

you're too much of a pessimist.  Panarin will play here forever.  He will always put up 100 points and make the Rangers great again

[Pete]

28 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

you're too much of a pessimist.  Panarin will play here forever.  He will always put up 100 points and make the Rangers great again

While I wish that was the case, I'm just saying that it's an unknown variable, and not a small one. 

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

That's not what it's been this year.

 

It's only been 3 games, so I have to rely on the larger sample size of what it's been.

 

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I don't think the part each of them played in their career years was equitable. But only time will tell. Maybe Laf will learn enough from the experience to handle it on his own.

 

But the defenses will address him differently when they don't have Panarin to worry about.

 

Maybe.

 

Here's a related thought: I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of Panarin sticking around at a much cheaper cap hit. I'm critical of him only because he doesn't offer $12 million value in the playoffs. He's not "the guy". He doesn't have to be if he's not paid like one. If he works with Lafreniere, and they continue to develop chemistry, it's a door that might be there.

[Scott]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

 

Here's a related thought: I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of Panarin sticking around at a much cheaper cap hit. I'm critical of him only because he doesn't offer $12 million value in the playoffs. He's not "the guy". He doesn't have to be if he's not paid like one. If he works with Lafreniere, and they continue to develop chemistry, it's a door that might be there.

Panarin makes this offense go and while I wish his playoff numbers would be higher I think this team struggles mightily if and when he leaves. IMO losing a guy of that caliber sets you back, borderline top 10 guy. As stated elsewhere we don't even know what a guy like Laf  is without playing alongside one of the best in the game, Tro too. But together they make up the teams top line offensively. RIght now envisioning them being able to keep him seems impossible. But we'll see when the time comes and what the ask is.

[Albatrosss]

17 minutes ago, Scott said:

Panarin makes this offense go and while I wish his playoff numbers would be higher I think this team struggles mightily if and when he leaves. IMO losing a guy of that caliber sets you back, borderline top 10 guy. As stated elsewhere we don't even know what a guy like Laf  is without playing alongside one of the best in the game, Tro too. But together they make up the teams top line offensively. RIght now envisioning them being able to keep him seems impossible. But we'll see when the time comes and what the ask is.

once Panarin is done you can get two $6M wings, one in place of Panarin and the other RW on Zibby's line.  Production should mirror Panarin's, and the lineup would be more balanced

[Scott]

4 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

once Panarin is done you can get two $6M wings, one in place of Panarin and the other RW on Zibby's line.  Production should mirror Panarin's, and the lineup would be more balanced

Respect your opinion and most importantly I don't care about the individual names/players but team success.

 

If "should" was changed to "could" I would go with maybe it might work out this way.  Banking on Mika at this point isn't something I'm going with until proven differently on the ice over an extended period of time. Even if he was the number 1 star of the game last night.

Edited 12 hours ago by Scott

[Albatrosss]

9 minutes ago, Scott said:

Respect your opinion and most importantly I don't care about the individual names/players but team success.

 

If "should" was changed to "could" I would go with maybe it might work out this way.  Banking on Mika at this point isn't something I'm going with until proven differently on the ice over an extended period of time. Even if he was the number 1 star of the game last night.

It 'should" because it's not unfathomable to expect top two wingers to produce 50 points a season.  

Mika is here whether we like it or not. His contract is immovable and i doubt the coaching staff is going to demote him to the 3rd line anytime soon.  

[Br4d]

7 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

And little PP time.

 

And the projected assists are definitely going to be higher. 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

47 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

once Panarin is done you can get two $6M wings, one in place of Panarin and the other RW on Zibby's line.  Production should mirror Panarin's, and the lineup would be more balanced

In two years Zibby will be the 3C. He already kinda is now, people just don’t want to accept it. They won’t be using that kind of cash to drag him around.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

once Panarin is done you can get two $6M wings, one in place of Panarin and the other RW on Zibby's line.  Production should mirror Panarin's, and the lineup would be more balanced

Assuming those wingers are coming from the free agent market, they'll probably be 50 point guys...The problem is nobody sets up an entire game plan to defend against those two wingers the way they do Panarin. Those two wingers don't create space the way Panarin does. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

In two years Zibby will be the 3C. He already kinda is now, people just don’t want to accept it. They won’t be using that kind of cash to drag him around.

3C's don't put up 70 plus points.

[BrooksBurner]

57 minutes ago, Pete said:

3C's don't put up 70 plus points.

 

If he gets taken off PP1, which he should, he won't even sniff 50.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

If he gets taken off PP1, which he should, he won't even sniff 50.

So what? 50 even strength points would be a solid season for a second line center, then add in that he produces more shorthanded then some third line centers do in all situations... Add in that he is in fact on the power play.

 

I wouldn't dispute he's trending down, and I wouldn't even dispute that it might be as quickly as 2 years that he is a third line center, I'm just saying today he ain't.