Phil Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 26 minutes ago, Pete said: All you need to do is watch a game to realize that Kreider doesn't participate in the offense other than standing in front of the net. It's a worthy endeavor that gets him a lot of goals, however more is required, especially for somebody who skates as well as he does. Being stationary is not an option. 25 minutes ago, Pete said: Yes, because of Zibanejad spoon feeding him! He doesn't create his own offense. He needs it created for him. Zib does that. No one else is doing it. I don't disagree that it'd be great to get more out of him, especially from a puck-carrying perspective. But I find it very difficult to hammer an incredibly productive goal-scorer. It also doesn't matter much. We don't agree on who shoulders more blame, but we agree that it's a worthy exercise to try giving that duo another dynamic. A rising tide lifts all ships, and with how good the third line looks early this season, now's the time to try IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 39 minutes ago, Pete said: All you need to do is watch a game to realize that Kreider doesn't participate in the offense other than standing in front of the net. It's a worthy endeavor that gets him a lot of goals, however more is required, especially for somebody who skates as well as he does. Being stationary is not an option. 38 minutes ago, Pete said: Yes, because of Zibanejad spoon feeding him! He doesn't create his own offense. He needs it created for him. Zib does that. No one else is doing it. You’re proving my point. The Kreider hate is oozing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 16 Author Share Posted October 16 5 minutes ago, Phil said: I don't disagree that it'd be great to get more out of him, especially from a puck-carrying perspective. But I find it very difficult to hammer an incredibly productive goal-scorer. It also doesn't matter much. We don't agree on who shoulders more blame, but we agree that it's a worthy exercise to try giving that duo another dynamic. A rising tide lifts all ships, and with how good the third line looks early this season, now's the time to try IMO. Agreed, because I think none of us talk about this with any kind of neutrality. These are things we know Zib could be trending down He needs more support from his wingers than he previously did Kreider is not a winger who supports his center, or creates his own chances but is adept at what he does Zib has been creating offense for Kreider But nobody since Buch has created offense for Zib These are observations, there's no shame in any of this. They have chemistry off the rush, but no chemistry off the cycle. While Zib was able to create off the rush previously, he might not be able to anymore and he's not going to be getting help from the left wing, and he'll get limited help on the right wing. It's really limiting for Smith to be a left-handed passer on the right wing to a right-handed centerman. If he passes off the backhand, it's a tough pass to make, and if he pulls it back to the forehand It's still a tough passing angle towards the middle. So now we know rush chances might not be what we want them to be and we have three players playing together who don't like to play in the zone and would much prefer to play off the rush. It's a lot more than just pointing at guys and saying they suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 16 Author Share Posted October 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: You’re proving my point. The Kreider hate is oozing. I don't think you understand what the word hate means. Hate is visceral...often unjustified...like you and Panarin. I don't hate Kreider. I just recognize his obvious limitations, but I never discount what he does well. I just think he could be doing more. See my post above this. Edited October 16 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 3 minutes ago, Pete said: I don't think you understand what the word hate means. Hate is visceral...often unjustified...like you and Panarin. I don't hate Kreider. I just recognize his obvious limitations, but I never discount what he does well. I just think he could be doing more. See my post above this. Yes. I am making up the many years of your Kreider bashing. The two posts I quoted reduced Kreider to a one trick pony who requires Zibanejad to do that one trick. Again, it’s such an astronomical lift for poor old Zibanejad, who just needs a bare minimum of help from his wingers. I don’t hate Panarin. I just recognize his obvious limitations in the playoffs, but I never discount what he does in the regular season. I just think he could be doing more in the playoffs. You should have led with that other post instead of pretending you gave a well thought out response initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 16 Author Share Posted October 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Yes. I am making up the many years of your Kreider bashing. The two posts I quoted reduced Kreider to a one trick pony who requires Zibanejad to do that one trick. Again, it’s such an astronomical lift for poor old Zibanejad, who just needs a bare minimum of help from his wingers. I don’t hate Panarin. I just recognize his obvious limitations in the playoffs, but I never discount what he does in the regular season. I just think he could be doing more in the playoffs. You should have led with that other post instead of pretending you gave a well thought out response initially. Bro you're all over the place. What did I say in my post that's refutable? Nothing. Stick with that. You want to talk about the hockey talk about the hockey, if you don't have a response then just leave it at that. Edited October 16 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Yes. I am making up the many years of your Kreider bashing. The two posts I quoted reduced Kreider to a one trick pony who requires Zibanejad to do that one trick. Again, it’s such an astronomical lift for poor old Zibanejad, who just needs a bare minimum of help from his wingers. I don’t hate Panarin. I just recognize his obvious limitations in the playoffs, but I never discount what he does in the regular season. I just think he could be doing more in the playoffs. You should have led with that other post instead of pretending you gave a well thought out response initially. 1 minute ago, Pete said: Bro you're all over the place. What did I say in my post that's refutable? Nothing. Stick with that. You want to talk about the hockey talk about the hockey, don't talk about me. Kreider simply doesn’t use his skill set the way that it’s traditionally used. Hes big, strong and fast… yet he doesn’t hit anybody, doesn’t get deep on the forecheck, doesn’t play any role in cycling, and the only time he uses his speed is in open ice when there’s a two on one or a breakaway to be had. He’s not a power forward. He has virtues. But they don’t actually reflect what he should be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 5 hours ago, BrooksBurner said: That's an oversimplification of Kreider, and was really only evident in his 50 goal season. I don't have a problem with breaking up Zibanejad and Kreider. I have a problem with the proposed purpose of doing it. Panarin - Zibanejad - Smith Kreider - Trocheck - Lafreniere Probably the Ranger's best chance at two high-scoring lines. If you think Zibanejad does a great job of setting up Kreider, and I do think he does a pretty good job at that task, wait until Laf is feeding him. The difference is that Laf won't stop taking shots to feed Kreider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 20 minutes ago, Br4d said: Panarin - Zibanejad - Smith Kreider - Trocheck - Lafreniere Probably the Ranger's best chance at two high-scoring lines. If you think Zibanejad does a great job of setting up Kreider, and I do think he does a pretty good job at that task, wait until Laf is feeding him. The difference is that Laf won't stop taking shots to feed Kreider. Panarin-Zib-Smith Laf-Chytil-Kakko Kreider-Trochek-Cuylle Play that for 15 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Br4d said: Panarin - Zibanejad - Smith Kreider - Trocheck - Lafreniere Probably the Ranger's best chance at two high-scoring lines. If you think Zibanejad does a great job of setting up Kreider, and I do think he does a pretty good job at that task, wait until Laf is feeding him. The difference is that Laf won't stop taking shots to feed Kreider. Panarin-Chytil-Smith sounds better in theory to me than PZS, both short and long term. I just think they should try different things before breaking up PTL if it comes to it, but right now you've also got the Chytil line cooking to start the year too. You don't upend 2 lines because one guy has been meh for a year+. Ironically, by 5v5 TOI, PTL is line 1 by a significant margin, Chytil line is 2A, and KZS is 2B. Credit to Lavvy for leaning into the Chytil line playing well. Edited October 17 by BrooksBurner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 36 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Panarin-Chytil-Smith sounds better in theory to me than PZS, both short and long term. I just think they should try different things before breaking up PTL if it comes to it, but right now you've also got the Chytil line cooking to start the year too. You don't upend 2 lines because one guy has been meh for a year+. Ironically, by 5v5 TOI, PTL is line 1 by a significant margin, Chytil line is 2A, and KZS is 2B. Credit to Lavvy for leaning into the Chytil line playing well. A healthy Chytil was always gonna play well over the last year. If he’s healthy, roll him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 I wouldn’t touch the 3rd line even if you paid me. They’re rolling. Tincker the other 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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