How Does Yzerman Still Have a Job?

[Phil]

This guy was the envy of every fan on earth as GM of Tampa. He's been in Detroit now for like six years with nothing to show for it. No playoffs, and no real reasons to believe. He's got some good pieces locked up — Seider, Raymond, Larkin — but their roster is such a wasteland of reruns. Kane, Tarasenko, Copp (3 more years with trade protection), Compher (4 more years with trade protection), Chiarot (2 more years with trade protection), Holl (same as Chiarot).

 

His starting goalie is Cam Talbot. The Ville Husso signing went bust. Chiarot was awful from day one. Ditto Holl. Compher and Copp are good players, but are total danger zone deals.

 

I just don't get it. When I look at that team, I see a roster going nowhere fast.

 

The veil has slipped IMO.

[jsm7302]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

This guy was the envy of every fan on earth as GM of Tampa. He's been in Detroit now for like six years with nothing to show for it. No playoffs, and no real reasons to believe. He's got some good pieces locked up — Seider, Raymond, Larkin — but their roster is such a wasteland of reruns. Kane, Tarasenko, Copp (3 more years with trade protection), Compher (4 more years with trade protection), Chiarot (2 more years with trade protection), Holl (same as Chiarot).

 

His starting goalie is Cam Talbot. The Ville Husso signing went bust. Chiarot was awful from day one. Ditto Holl. Compher and Copp are good players, but are total danger zone deals.

 

I just don't get it. When I look at that team, I see a roster going nowhere fast.

 

The veil has slipped IMO.

Tbh; their roster reminds me of the NYR dark years. He has the Sather esque name as well so he will probably be there until he decides not to be. Totally get what you're saying though.

[siddious]

I dunno how you can expect to succeed when you hire an evil mastermind to be your coach

 

 

But I think this just goes to show.. rebuilds are fucking hard. 

[Albatrosss]

they dont have someone like Shesty and Panarin.  Therefore they suck

[Phil]

17 minutes ago, siddious said:

I dunno how you can expect to succeed when you hire an evil mastermind to be your coach

 

 

But I think this just goes to show.. rebuilds are fucking hard. 

 

Very much so, and no GM is leaps and bounds better than the next. He was never a god. He got luckier in Tampa.

 

To me, the two biggest factors for him in Tampa — and I have no idea how much credit he deserves for this — were:

 

1. Coaching consistency. Not just that their NHL coach never changed, but that their coaching strategy as an organization reflected from the NHL level to the AHL level.

2. Development. As a direct result of the first point, he benefited significantly from having whole groups of prospects develop together and come up together. It created a synergy between AHL/NHL that directly fed the top.

 

But six years is still six years. Detroit doesn't feel like it has any of this same synergy. They just exist, and he keeps signing free agents, arguably because he doesn't have the same pipeline.

[Albatrosss]

detroit's luck ran out with Zetterberg and Datsyuk

[Phil]

39 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

detroit's luck ran out with Zetterberg and Datsyuk

 

Thank you Kanye, very cool!

 

How does this relate to Yzerman, exactly?

[Dunny]

Simon is correct. They were previously very lucky with assets. Now, they are not.

 

 

[Albatrosss]

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Thank you Kanye, very cool!

 

How does this relate to Yzerman, exactly?

IDK..someone wrote this

 

Quote

Very much so, and no GM is leaps and bounds better than the next. He was never a god. He got luckier in Tampa

.

[Phil]

39 minutes ago, Dunny said:

Simon is correct. They were previously very lucky with assets. Now, they are not.

 

Right, and that's on the GM. Rightly or wrongly. He's in his sixth year there and they've gone nowhere. Are you suggesting he was the luckiest GM in Tampa and now just unlucky for six straight years?

 

Luck is a component of this, but it doesn't all come down to this. He's arguably made not very smart decisions since being named GM in Detroit. Chiarot comes to mind. So does Talbot. Holl, too, who they just demoted (and then recalled). I don't see the Compher and Copp deals as very smart, either. Quite expensive and protected for who those players are.

 

If everything is just luck, NHL owners should go all in on AI and just let a computer generate all decisions moving forward. They won't have to pay any salaries or deal with prospect reports or anything. Just roll the dice.

 

13 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

IDK..someone wrote this

 

Sure did, but I actually expanded on it. You quoted one line from a larger post.

[Albatrosss]

17 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Right, and that's on the GM. Rightly or wrongly. He's in his sixth year there and they've gone nowhere. Are you suggesting he was the luckiest GM in Tampa and now just unlucky for six straight years?

 

Luck is a component of this, but it doesn't all come down to this. He's arguably made not very smart decisions since being named GM in Detroit. Chiarot comes to mind. So does Talbot. Holl, too, who they just demoted (and then recalled). I don't see the Compher and Copp deals as very smart, either. Quite expensive and protected for who those players are.

 

If everything is just luck, NHL owners should go all in on AI and just let a computer generate all decisions moving forward. They won't have to pay any salaries or deal with prospect reports or anything. Just roll the dice.

 

 

Sure did, but I actually expanded on it. You quoted one line from a larger post.

i didnt directly quoted you.  I made a statement about the Red Wings.  But I like your idea about AI only because i do not think most NHL GMs are very smart

[Sharpshooter]

Yzerplan? More like Yzerscam.

[Phil]

17 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

i didnt directly quoted you.  I made a statement about the Red Wings.  But I like your idea about AI only because i do not think most NHL GMs are very smart

 

Probably true. LOL.

[Sharpshooter]

That Copp contract is so bad. I'm glad we were able to take advantage of him playing for a bag, and there was no way they were giving him those terms.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

i didnt directly quoted you.  I made a statement about the Red Wings.  But I like your idea about AI only because i do not think most NHL GMs are very smart

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

Probably true. LOL.

GM and CEO, the 2 roles that can easily be done with AI, but never will be.

[LindG1000]

2 hours ago, Albatrosss said:

i didnt directly quoted you.  I made a statement about the Red Wings.  But I like your idea about AI only because i do not think most NHL GMs are very smart

 

The problem is that AI relies on training data, so if NHL GMs are not very smart, and the AI is trained on the behaviors and data inputs of NHL GMs, you're getting a stupid AI.

 

Still, I'm pretty sure a fair coin might have gotten this Red Wings team into the playoffs by now, so a dumb AI might have as well.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, LindG1000 said:

 

The problem is that AI relies on training data, so if NHL GMs are not very smart, and the AI is trained on the behaviors and data inputs of NHL GMs, you're getting a stupid AI.

 

Still, I'm pretty sure a fair coin might have gotten this Red Wings team into the playoffs by now, so a dumb AI might have as well.

Common sense would dictate you don't use existing GMs to train the AI.

[LindG1000]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Common sense would dictate you don't use existing GMs to train the AI.

 

I mean....we could just ask AI to make the moves required to fix the 2024-25 Red Wings and ensure they make the playoffs.

 

So far, the AI I'm playing with wants to send Lucas Raymond, Robby Fabbri, and a 1st to St Louis for Pavel Buchnevich, and wants to acquire Linus Ullmark.

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

The problem is that AI relies on training data, so if NHL GMs are not very smart, and the AI is trained on the behaviors and data inputs of NHL GMs, you're getting a stupid AI.

 

Still, I'm pretty sure a fair coin might have gotten this Red Wings team into the playoffs by now, so a dumb AI might have as well.

 

You wouldn't need to train it on what GMs think, you could simply feed it raw data on scoring, age, skating data, all that jazz, then tell it to make decisions based on market rate data. My guess is you'd end up with an average to above average outcome the majority of the time. Like, it could absolutely do a better job running the Sabres LOL.

[Albatrosss]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

 

You wouldn't need to train it on what GMs think, you could simply feed it raw data on scoring, age, skating data, all that jazz, then tell it to make decisions based on market rate data. My guess is you'd end up with an average to above average outcome the majority of the time. Like, it could absolutely do a better job running the Sabres LOL.

Yes, no reason to think AI would not concede to the law of averages 

[BrooksBurner]

Cut Yzerman a break. He tried to land a game changer. It’s not his fault the Trouba deal fell through on him

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Cut Yzerman a break. He tried to land a game changer. It’s not his fault the Trouba deal fell through on him

imagine if that deal went through?  We'd be playing back to back against Trouba and i'm pretty sure he would've sent Chytil to the emergency room and then back to Czechia